Wels

[LutheranHawkeye]

I know the main difference between Missouri and Wels is about women. Could someone explain it further to me and maybe some info on future plans of them joining the Lcms, if these plans are non-existent then just answer the first question. Thanks

 

[BigNorsk]

The basic difference is how the two interpret the word "authority" as in a woman shouldn't have authority over a man.

The LCMS sees the word as speaking of a rather definite authority a dominant type of authority where the woman would dictate to the man. So such things as voting in a church assembly, or even holding offices not involved in the office of public ministry is seen as okay for women to do.

The WELS takes a more broad meaning of authority like basically any sort of authority and so they do not allow women to vote nor I believe hold most offices. Though I admit I'm not really sure on the offices.

The other division is on the synod as church. The LCMS says the synod is not a church, the congregations are churches while WELS says the synod is church. So in WELS you would see say the President recognized as being in the office of public ministry without requiring him to be serving a local congregation, in the LCMS to be in the office of public ministry a synod official needs to be serving as such in a congregation.

That has effects as far as who is authorized to impose church discipline and other functions of the office of public ministry.

I know of no real plans for the WELS to join the LCMS nor for that matter are they likely to be in full communion soon. Too many who consider a common confession to be a common confession in everything is necessary for full communion.

Marv

 

[DaRev]

Check out these links for more info:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2149

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=13&cuItem_itemID=15650

And Marv is right, there are no plans for fellowship between the two synods anytime in the forseeable future... unfortunately.

 

[Jim47]

No, the main differences between LCMS and WELS is fellowship practices, and this was the whole issue that seperated us. There are of course now many other things, at least in some LCMS churchs, but, not all.
If you really want to learn the whole trutt get the book at Northwestern Publishing House called "Church Fellowship" by John F. Brug, it goes into quite a bit of detail, of course its not devoted to just the differences between the LCMS and WELS, but it does cover then well.

 

[DoomRyderOCST]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but this is probably a good place to ask. What are the main differences between the ELS and WELS? I know they work together very closely.

 

[dinkime]

No, the main differences between LCMS and WELS is fellowship practices, and this was the whole issue that seperated us. There are of course now many other things, at least in some LCMS churchs, but, not all.
If you really want to learn the whole trutt get the book at Northwestern Publishing House called "Church Fellowship" by John F. Brug, it goes into quite a bit of detail, of course its not devoted to just the differences between the LCMS and WELS, but it does cover then well.

my favorite book is "WELS and Other Lutherans"

 

[Jim47]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but this is probably a good place to ask. What are the main differences between the ELS and WELS? I know they work together very closely.

Only one really small difference but I don't remeber what it is, we are in full fellowship with each other.

 

[Jim47]

my favorite book is "WELS and Other Lutherans"

I'll have to look for that one, heard of it but never seen it. I hope it isn't all about the ELCA is it

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'll have to look for that one, heard of it but never seen it. I hope it isn't all about the ELCA is it

It goes into detail with almost all the Lutheran Synods (that existed at the time, anyway) . It's a really good book - we used it as a bible study not too long ago.

 

[dinkime]

yup -- every synod at the time -- why we are or are not in fellowship

 

[DaRev]

It would be interesting to see it and pick out all the mistakes they make about the LCMS.

 

[Jim47]

Well, I'll have to look for it some day, but right now I already have stack almost a foot high to read and I am one of the worlds weakest readers

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It would be interesting to see it and pick out all the mistakes they make about the LCMS.

I double dog dare ya.

Bet you won't find any. Our guys do their research before they write stuff, and some of the older guys who write were LCMS before the split in the 60s. Trust me, they'd much rather be in fellowship with LCMS than writing lies about it.

 

[dinkime]

and what might be called a "mistake" by LCMS policies may not be followed in actual congregations

(ie the LCMS churches that practice open communion and nothing is done about them)

 

[PreachersWife2004]

and what might be called a "mistake" by LCMS policies may not be followed in actual congregations

(ie the LCMS churches that practice open communion and nothing is done about them)

I am pretty sure the book addressed that point, as well. One of the "problems" with the LCMS is that there is no real synodical "parenting". Many churches in the LCMS don't follow their synod guidelines and rather than being put under church discipline, it seems that the LCMS synod in general just lets them do it. It's as if they don't care.

Now, that's not to say that the WELS doesn't have issues with this.

 

[Jim47]

I am pretty sure the book addressed that point, as well. One of the "problems" with the LCMS is that there is no real synodical "parenting". Many churches in the LCMS don't follow their synod guidelines and rather than being put under church discipline, it seems that the LCMS synod in general just lets them do it. It's as if they don't care.

Now, that's not to say that the WELS doesn't have issues with this.

This has always been kind of sad to me. I can't imagine the WELS having a similiar organization where the synod is not actually considered part of the church

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I had no idea it was possible to be that picky, I thought being within confessional Lutheranism was enough, apparently not for the Wisconsin folk.

 

[LutheranChick]

Another book citing the differences between ELCA, LCMS, and ELS/WELS is "What's Going On Among the Lutherans? A comparison of beliefs" - written by Patsy Leppien and J. Kincaid Smith. Rev. Smith knows the differences first hand, as he originally was ordained in the ELCA (before the merger), then went to LCMS and now is pastor in the ELS.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I had no idea it was possible to be that picky, I thought being within confessional Lutheranism was enough, apparently not for the Wisconsin folk.

I guess if you want to call following biblical principles 'picky', then yeah, we're pretty picky. And it's not just the WELS, either. ELS are just as picky.

It's funny...the LCMS pushed the WELS back in the right direction many moons ago (we were faltering BIG TIME). We are SO thankful for that. But when it came time for the WELS to return the favor, well, let's just say the higher-ups in the LCMS gave us the brush off. It was obvious that they didn't want our help.

The split goes deeper than most people think, which is why I hardily recommend that anyone interested in why we split read up on it...read up on it from both sides, too.

I'm sure there will be many upon many LCMS people in heaven, and some not in heaven. I'm sure the same will hold true for WELS people. Too many people think that fellowship principles = who is saved and who isn't.

 

[LutheranChick]

I guess if you want to call following biblical principles 'picky', then yeah, we're pretty picky. And it's not just the WELS, either. ELS are just as picky.

It's funny...the LCMS pushed the WELS back in the right direction many moons ago (we were faltering BIG TIME). We are SO thankful for that. But when it came time for the WELS to return the favor, well, let's just say the higher-ups in the LCMS gave us the brush off. It was obvious that they didn't want our help.

The split goes deeper than most people think, which is why I hardily recommend that anyone interested in why we split read up on it...read up on it from both sides, too.

I'm sure there will be many upon many LCMS people in heaven, and some not in heaven. I'm sure the same will hold true for WELS people. Too many people think that fellowship principles = who is saved and who isn't.

Yep, 'picky' we are! I heartily agree with your statement about going to heaven, also. Just because a person doesn't believe EXACTLY the same thing as we do doesn't mean they aren't saved. None of us have a perfect understanding of Scripture, as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But, as our Pastor says, the conservative Lutherans have it pretty close! LOL! If one believes that Jesus lived a perfect life and died on the cross for our sins, that is saving faith.