Well...

[seashale76]

Peace.

I feel that you are a kindred spirit, in that what you wrote reminds me of myself in the not so distant past. It was simultaneously the most liberating and most heart wrenching thing I've ever gone through; truly a dark night of the soul. I do think it is a good thing to keep searching for wisdom, and I certainly came to a point where I didn't call Jesus my savior because I refused to do so unless I felt it wasn't anything other than the absolute truth. I don't see this quality in you as being rude or offensive at all. You're questioning everything, you're searching, and it is a very healthy and normal thing to do, I think. I once envied those for whom things such as an unexamined and unquestioned faith came naturally, but, I've recently come to the conclusion that God made me the way I am for a reason. May you find what you're searching for and may God continue to guide you to Himself.

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

Did you even read what I said? It's hard to say, but I feel like this," How can you not be amazed?"....but I know that few are amazed now....but just wait until He comes! That will be the day!

Thanks to you all, but I no longer require assistance. I have to terms with death and I submit to the fact of returning to the Earth once I die. I just now believe that with a beginning and a end... my life has meaning. Sorry to have bothered you at all, but your replies were very helpful, which is all I can ever ask for from fellow life.

Thank you and peace be with you for the rest of your days.

 

[helicon]

Did you even read what I said? It's hard to say, but I feel like this," How can you not be amazed?"....but I know that few are amazed now....but just wait until He comes! That will be the day!

Few are amazed now? I'm amazed at how amazingly lucky we are. We evolved just right to be like we are today. We are the product of a huge improbability which gives my life such a feeling of humbleness to nature and brings me happyness. Whether He comes has no relevence to my life as it is now, so I shall keep living and when I die, I die. If theres an afterlife then all my life's work of finding out about this universe is probably pointless, I wouldn't want to live forever if it isn't in this plane of existance.

It'll be hard to explain to a theist but the pure freedom, humbleness and awe I have isn't from belief in God but from what I can see. I do have odd-beliefs in a life-force, you can call that God if you must, but this "god" that I feel isn't a conscious one who cares about human matters, it is nature in its purest essence. The pure happyness you gain from a god, I gain from not believing in one, they're very comparable and I can relate to you now. I just struggle with understanding why people follow a rule-set or some that deny other humans rights if they are homosexual and use religion as an excuse for this. Also, from believing we are all animals and we are in fact apes, it means you tend to respect life a lot more then believing animals are just food for you. In my opinion anyway.

Thanks once again :o

EDIT: I also read "revelation" and was disturbed greatly :/. So much so, that if the Christian God were to go through with that, I would forever be hateful towards him.

 

[salida]

Yes, the darwin evolutionist make a claim that the earth is very old and that the fossil materials are the result of slow and gradual accumulation of sedimentary rock layers over "supposed" millions and billions of years of time. If this was true, why are there no meteorites found in the sedimentary rock? Every year about 600 significant meteorites pass through the earths atmosphere and hit the earth. On average 30% of them will hit land and be preserved - thus after millions of years of history we should be finding at least 50 billion meteorites in the sedimentary rock layers.

Actually the lack of meteorites within the fossil materials indicate that the layers all formed during Noah's Flood. I recommend www.creationworldview.org and www.reasons.org for further info.

 

[helicon]

Yes, the darwin evolutionist make a claim that the earth is very old and that the fossil materials are the result of slow and gradual accumulation of sedimentary rock layers over "supposed" millions and billions of years of time. If this was true, why are there no meteorites found in the sedimentary rock? Every year about 600 significant meteorites pass through the earths atmosphere and hit the earth. On average 30% of them will hit land and be preserved - thus after millions of years of history we should be finding at least 50 billion meteorites in the sedimentary rock layers.

Actually the lack of meteorites within the fossil materials indicate that the layers all formed during Noah's Flood. I recommend and for further info.

So you're saying this "meteorite" idea completly undermimes all the great scientific minds of the age and they must be completley wrong and this idea is completly new and original? I gather the creator of such a theory has a PHD and numerous research showing evidence showing the claim to be true and they've sent it to be peer reviewed amongst others and its gone through the required measures that every other theory has gone through? You've read something off the internet and are now saying it's right, thats about it. Thats like me going on Wikipedia and claiming to be a intellectual.

That sounds like a "fraudster Kent Hovind" theory, it's that painfully ignorant. >.>

Theres no such thing as a "darwin evolutionist" also... there is only a theory of evolution, that was created by Darwin. All these "Darwinist" and other terms are just plain stupid.

 

[jamiel]

But I do believe in facts such as evolution and the age of the earth being 4 billion or so years old, it would be hard for me to think otherwise.

It would for me too. I believe in those things and I am a Christian as well.

To put it in a Christian view... why did God have to stop at one universe?

There's nothing that says He had to stop at one. Maybe He didn't. We don't know for certain. The Bible is focusing on God and His relationship with humanity. Things like other universes and even dinosaurs, etc. aren't addressed, but that doesn't mean they don't (or didn't) exist.

Who knows, maybe a God is guiding me.

I think He is, I really do!

in your opinion... is it a "good" thing to be in the search of wisdom? To try and think more like a God or a creator? Am I too in over my head and would the christian God be angry at me for doing this?

You seem to be seeking to me, and it's important to get right with God. Knock and the door will be open to you. I think you're taking your first step.

To search for wisdom is not bad and finding what God is all about is good. Once you are right with God then the answers to your questions will start to fall in place. This is a process. Your faith will grow as your walk with God does. This is all from my own personal experience.

We don't know everything now or perfectly, but we are guided into "wisdom". It's that right relationship here that's so important.

This message board here led me to Jesus Christ last year.

What got it all started was a thread of people talking about the attributes of God. That's it! That's all it took. For some that might be enough as your post here is in a way like my first step.

I was wondering about God . . . Why do I keep coming back to this (God)? I wasn't looking for God -- but then I am not the one that "calls", God does. I answered God's calling out to me.

Keeping asking your questions and seeking. Let your heart not be hardened for God.

I feel it would be very easy for me to just.... say Jesus is my savior... but I feel I would be lying and untrue if I did so which seems to me even worse then not saying anything.

I wouldn't say anything that was untrue or not how I feel.

However, I find that debates about creation and evolution are both fruitless and a smokescreen to avoid the deeper question of the sovereignty and lordship of Jesus Christ. If you believe in evolution, then I have no desire to change your mind. On the other hand, I would most definitely commend Jesus Christ to you as the sole means of having any meaningful relationship with God.

This is true. If the issue of evolution is what is a barrier to God, then consider how the debate is really a debate about God/Jesus Christ (not that evolution precludes God, just how the debate is being framed).

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then God will shape you in his image so as to think like him.

This is how it happens. It's a process but you're not the same as before. You have a new spirit, a new creation.

Personally I could never take the Bible as absolute 100% truth (it has been translated a lot etc)...

This is a thing with me I guess, regarding translations, but please don't let that stop you. The original Greek and Hebrew words are available, so the notion that there has been a lot of translations and these are lost is false.

Scripture has also been MOST meticulously copied as well by ancient Jewish scribes. So much so that the copy was rejected I do believe if one mistake was present.

Few are amazed now? I'm amazed at how amazingly lucky we are. We evolved just right to be like we are today. We are the product of a huge improbability which gives my life such a feeling of humbleness to nature and brings me happyness.

We're very fortunate to be God's creatures! It is highly improbable evolution on its own brought us into existence, yet here we are. It was guided by the hand of God.

Also, from believing we are all animals and we are in fact apes, it means you tend to respect life a lot more then believing animals are just food for you.

Not all Christ-followers believe this. I wonder maybe if your view of Christians has been influenced too much by certain people. Granted, Christians can (ironically) be a stumbling block, but they are not all the same, nor are they God. Don't let them cost you a relationship with Someone who cares about you more than you'll ever know and has the answers you seek . . .

EDIT: I also read "revelation" and was disturbed greatly :/. So much so, that if the Christian God were to go through with that, I would forever be hateful towards him.

Revelation is not the book of the Bible I would suggest to you right now. It uses a great deal of symbolism and is the hardest to understand IMO. It really is (again, IMO) meant for those who are already deeper into their faith. There's a reason why it's at the end.

That sounds like a "fraudster Kent Hovind" theory, it's that painfully ignorant. >.>

Helicon, I think Kent Hovind is off base too!

But I'm also a Christian!

Some Christians are more vocal than others, but believe me we're not all the same, we don't interpret everything in Scripture the same way -- but we do have Jesus Christ as our Savior. Amen!

I'm just concerned you're allowing road blocks like the evolution issue to disuade you from pursuing God . . . Not with evolution, but I've been there with other issues and it wasn't worth it. Finally I'm over the things that kept me from Him and I couldn't nor would I ever want to go back or have Him out of my life . . .

I'm praying for you, keep hanging in there. You're closer than you think, but He does the calling, not you. (And I can hear His call plain as day through your postings, despite some of your thoughts). It's your choice whether to answer His call.



God Bless.

 

[salida]

No, I'm not saying this. This alone isn't the reason as there are endless and overwhelming more evidence. You say the great scientific minds? There are many great scientific minds that believe in intelligent design and creationism. The originator of the website address of creationworldview.org was an evolutionist but now he is a creationist. In reality more and more scientists are going to intellectual design because there are so many holes in darwinism.

Also, the scientist tends to believe what their worldview is and the darwinism types have to force their so called proof because there is so much lack of proof. This isn't the case for creationism types as the evidence speaks for itself.

One more example is evolutionist claim that things change over time in an upward direction becoming more and more complex through spontaneous mutation of genetic codes thus "proving" evolution. But the word mutation means a copying error by definition. A mutation is a structual change in the hereditary material which makes the offspring different from the parents. Mutations are errors in copying the genetic codes. You can copying something perfect or imperfectly but you can't copy something more perfect. Thus, if perfect there is no change from one generation to the next and imperfectly then the info is degraded and the next generation will suffer. (New information does not come into existence without the input from a greater outside intelligence).

Neither is new info is produced simply from an input of undirected energy and it will destroy the previous existing system. The law of genetics isn't creative but conservative - these laws allow for copying, rearranging of previous existing info. which is then passed on in new combinations to the next generation. (Also, these evolutionists like Dr. Stephen J. Gould of Harvard University, Dr. Eldredge of the American Museum of Natural History in NY and Dr. Colin Patterson of the British Museum of Natural History have admitted that there are no transitional life forms found in the fossil record. Thus, these are evolutionists.



I can easily give you more information but I don't think they would like me to give you this information here has its hundreds of pages. Refer to the two websites www.creationworldview.org and www.reasons.org for more info I mentioned earlier. There are more sites but if your interested in knowing more facts this is a start. I won't debate - as I feel its like debating the earth being flat and this isn't the debate section.

 

[helicon]

Also, the scientist tends to believe what their worldview is and the darwinism types have to force their so called proof because there is so much lack of proof. This isn't the case for creationism types as the evidence speaks for itself.

There is no evidence for a intelligent creator. Hence why it's "faith" to believe there is. If you quote the "ID" movement then I'll just quote how badly they proposed the god hypothesis and how badly it got rejected. You can't prove the paranormal. You can say all the arguements you want against the big bang theory, evolution etc but all you're doing is saying you know better then hundres of thousands of scientists that have actually researched into it and work with things like evolution every day. In fact, Scientists don't just come up with proof for the sake of annoying creationists, they do it because the evidence points towards it. Theres room for a God in everything science discovered aswell, but young earth creationism is by far the most backward thinking thing you can ever imagine that has been debunked so many times its untrue.

And its INTELLIGENT design and EVOLUTION. There is NO such thing as Darwinism. Thats like saying the people idolise Darwin, all he did was come up with the idea, then provide evidence to support it.

And bs, more and more of the population is becoming agnosist and atheist and in the science community 7% or less are of a theist faith, the majority are of atheistic. No one takes ID seriously.

Anyway, since when did I ask you to come and prove to me ID is correct and that evolution, the age of the earth along with carbon dating among other evidence is wrong? Seriously, congratulations on driving me away in the biggest fashion ever again. I was actually gaining hope there wasnt stereotypical Christians on here and that maybe I was misinformed about the generic stereotype, but alas. But most of you on here are probably nothing like this, as you've demonstrated.

This is the last time I'll post here. I shall be going back to studying chi, science and philosophy once again. But thank you to the people here that got me out of a rather dark hole. We're probably all working for the same cause, we just don't know it yet.

Also, thank you Jamiel

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

EDIT: I also read "revelation" and was disturbed greatly :/. So much so, that if the Christian God were to go through with that, I would forever be hateful towards him.

He is going to go through with it. Hate Him if you want, it won’t change the fact that He’s God or not. Everyone thinks they can be a better god…and they always tell people how they would have done it differently.

Unless you’ve studied biology or science or done some research, you don’t have enough knowledge to understand that evolution theory (us evolving from bacteria and monkeys) is still a theory. It has not once, in human history been proven. Let me repeat that again, it has not in human history been proven even once! So it’s like a belief. For me, truly, it takes more faith for me to believe that my ancestors were once organisms like bacteria on this earth than for me to believe in a creator. Science is the study of what already exists…it doesn’t contradict the Creator. The evolution theory is a religion. It’s belief that has no experimental proof to back it up. In all the years of studying bio and nature and the human body…I have seen no experimental theory that has proven the evolution theory of human beings evolving from other animals and organism. I sorry, you’ve been fooled. If you want to believe that your ancestors were monkeys, go ahead. Satan’s had his laugh with that already.

But, you have the right to believe what you believe. No one can force you to change your mind. Just know that we told you the truth already. I know you are in awe by the beauty of this world. I just don’t want you to be in the presence of the Creator of the world one day and find out then that He does exist. He is really that awesome. If you think this world is awesome….how much more will you be in awe by it’s Creator. Think about that. You still have your whole life ahead of you. You can be open minded and observe the facts throughout your whole life. No one will find the answer when they’ve closed their mind. Questions will come and go, and so will answers. Just keep your mind open….look at the facts, be true to yourself.

Few are amazed now? I'm amazed at how amazingly lucky we are. We evolved just right to be like we are today. We are the product of a huge improbability which gives my life such a feeling of humbleness to nature and brings me happyness. Whether He comes has no relevence to my life as it is now, so I shall keep living and when I die, I die. If theres an afterlife then all my life's work of finding out about this universe is probably pointless, I wouldn't want to live forever if it isn't in this plane of existance.

It'll be hard to explain to a theist but the pure freedom, humbleness and awe I have isn't from belief in God but from what I can see. I do have odd-beliefs in a life-force, you can call that God if you must, but this "god" that I feel isn't a conscious one who cares about human matters, it is nature in its purest essence. The pure happyness you gain from a god, I gain from not believing in one, they're very comparable and I can relate to you now. I just struggle with understanding why people follow a rule-set or some that deny other humans rights if they are homosexual and use religion as an excuse for this. Also, from believing we are all animals and we are in fact apes, it means you tend to respect life a lot more then believing animals are just food for you. In my opinion anyway.

Thanks once again :o

EDIT: I also read "revelation" and was disturbed greatly :/. So much so, that if the Christian God were to go through with that, I would forever be hateful towards him.

 

[Stellar Vision]

For me, truly, it takes more faith for me to believe that my ancestors were once organisms like bacteria on this earth than for me to believe in a creator.

I'm extremely curious about this oft used statement that selectively denigrates faith. What it shows is that at some level you know faith is a bad thing. Why not try and encourage your faith to grow if it takes more to believe in evolution?