Well, I college is about what I expected it to be.

[Chany]

We had a realitivist class today. It was so disjointed that I don't even know what to say about it, other than it was the regular argument that opinions of right and wrong. I feel my spirit about to throw up. I'm easily convinced of things, so I'm scared for my faith.

 

[Antigone]

Well, you seem to see through relativist theory pretty quickly. That seems promising.

 

[Chany]

Well, you seem to see through relativist theory pretty quickly. That seems promising.

It's just that the class treats social opinions throughout time as proof that we can create truth (without saying that of course). I don't care if such and such a culture thought killing was okay: the question is whether or not it, according to truth, it is morally okay to kill.

Also, if I hear the whole "the earth used to revolve around the sun" thing one more time I gonna punch a hole in the wall. If you think the Catholic Church is wrong, just say it; don't tiptoe around it.

 

[athenken]

Stay rooted in the Word and He will see you through this trial.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Relativism would have every man invent the 'Truth' for himself. It's pure rubbish, ludicrous, and insanity . . .

 

[MKJ]

It's just that the class treats social opinions throughout time as proof that we can create truth (without saying that of course). I don't care if such and such a culture thought killing was okay: the question is whether or not it, according to truth, it is morally okay to kill.

Also, if I hear the whole "the earth used to revolve around the sun" thing one more time I gonna punch a hole in the wall. If you think the Catholic Church is wrong, just say it; don't tiptoe around it.

The real trick isn't just avoiding relativism, but balancing it against the truth that things do and can change over time and that to understand historical situations and cultures means understanding their cultural context.

That is, you don't want to degenerate into a sort of post-modernism, but you don't want to become a fundamentalist either.

I'd suggest following Lewis' suggestion and try to read a ratio of two old books for every new one. It helps maintain perspective.

 

[Michie]

Stay in Scripture. It will give you the discernment you need.

 

[Chrystal-J]

It's just that the class treats social opinions throughout time as proof that we can create truth (without saying that of course). I don't care if such and such a culture thought killing was okay: the question is whether or not it, according to truth, it is morally okay to kill.

Also, if I hear the whole "the earth used to revolve around the sun" thing one more time I gonna punch a hole in the wall. If you think the Catholic Church is wrong, just say it; don't tiptoe around it.

Use this time to learn how atheists think and ways you can lead them to the truth. Just take it all in and realize that people are being blinded by Satan, as it says in:
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Feel pity for them rather than anger. I come from a family of atheists and I deal with this kind of thinking whenever I'm around them. But, I pray for them and try to set a good example of what a Christian is by not letting them verbally drag me into the mud with them.

P.S. Father Mitch Pacwa does a lot of speaking about logic and other topics like relativism. He has a radio show on the EWTN web site. He has a lot of good answers for atheist statements.

EWTN link: http://www.ewtn.com/search.asp

 

[Athanasias]

We had a realitivist class today. It was so disjointed that I don't even know what to say about it, other than it was the regular argument that opinions of right and wrong. I feel my spirit about to throw up. I'm easily convinced of things, so I'm scared for my faith.

Personally if you feel swayed and unsure stop going to that college asap. Then apply to and get into a solid Catholic college like Ave Maria U or Franciscan U at Steubenville or Christendom College etc that will teach you solid philosophy and foster your faith and then you wont have to waste money and time on the crap. I spent 3 years going to a secular college that was as liberal and Catholic hating as could be. It was also pro-choice pro-communist pro-socialist, pro-relativist. Every class I took but 2 for 3 years had to make at least one slam at conservatives and then one slam at the Catholic church and her teaching. I began to debate the professors in class.

Why give yourself the headache and waster your money? And if your suseptible to fall into this then for the sake of your immortal soul get out of that place!

 

[Chany]

The real trick isn't just avoiding relativism, but balancing it against the truth that things do and can change over time and that to understand historical situations and cultures means understanding their cultural context.

That is, you don't want to degenerate into a sort of post-modernism, but you don't want to become a fundamentalist either.

I'd suggest following Lewis' suggestion and try to read a ratio of two old books for every new one. It helps maintain perspective.

I understand that some things change over time, but some things are concrete. An example that comes to mind is the passage where Paul (I believe it's Paul, I honestly need to read the Bible a lot) says men should not grow their long. The statement is less about the individual command and what the statement gets at: men shouldn't aim to look like women, no matter the culture. Though the specifics of what a woman wears changes throughout history, the general idea remains the same.

Also, the professor is a sociologist, so it's hard to argue with him at all. And I'm not good at holding my tongue once it's out.

 

[Athanasias]

Go take sociology at a solid Catholic university and you won't have to waste your money or time and have the headaches. I learned nothing from my classes in sociology from my liberal secular college for the same reason. I argued with the teacher alot. When I got to Ave Maria U it was so pleasant because I not only didn't have to worry about crap but they fed us solid arguments and sociology and history. It was brain candy! And no snipes about the catholic Church anymore becasue they were to busy proving to us the catholic Church is correct in her view.

Here are some of the sociology course at AMU

http://www.avemaria.edu/MajorsPrograms/UndergraduateProgramMinors/FamilyandSociety.aspx

 

[Chany]

Personally if you feel swayed and unsure stop going to that college asap. Then apply to and get into a solid Catholic college like Ave Maria U or Franciscan U at Steubenville or Christendom College etc that will teach you solid philosophy and foster your faith and then you wont have to waste money and time on the crap. I spent 3 years going to a secular college that was as liberal and Catholic hating as could be. It was also pro-choice pro-communist pro-socialist, pro-relativist. Every class I took but 2 for 3 years had to make at least one slam at conservatives and then one slam at the Catholic church and her teaching. I began to debate the professors in class.

Why give yourself the headache and waster your money? And if your suseptible to fall into this then for the sake of your immortal soul get out of that place!

Because it's this college or nothing. I don't know about costs, and my parents would most likely not support it because my current college offers me an almost free ride.

I am secretly planning to try for Christendom when I get out. My theology teacher/converter went there.

 

[Athanasias]

Because it's this college or nothing. I don't know about costs, and my parents would most likely not support it because my current college offers me an almost free ride.

I am secretly planning to try for Christendom when I get out. My theology teacher/converter went there.

Yeah but if you think your gonna fall into believing this garbage its better for you to get out for the sake of your soul and apply for loans and grants like most of us had to and get to Christendom.

 

[Chany]

Yeah but if you think your gonna fall into believing this garbage its better for you to get out for the sake of your soul and apply for loans and grants like most of us had to and get to Christendom.

I don't know if I can even get in. It sounds like a tough school to get into.

 

[Athanasias]

I don't know if I can even get in. It sounds like a tough school to get into.

Well there is always hope. I had a low gpa and failed algebra 3 times. You never know until to you try. If not Christendom then Fransican U or Ave Maria U or one of the other faithful 33 universities in the country See list here:

Catholic Identity College Guide '12 | Education | NCRegister.com

You can download the complete guide from that page.

Look at it this way. 1) Your soul is most important and if your easily led astray then your soul needs to be safe. 2) School is for learning and often times when junk like that is taught in classes it is hard to know what is true and not. so why even waste your time on a education your not sure about? In devout catholic school this is not a problem.

I only say this becasue I have been there and experience this first hand this junk from many classes including and especially sociology classes in my undergrad. I was lucky that I studied for 8 years prior to me entering public College solid theology and philosophy or else I would have fallen into it to like so many innocent 18 year olds my age.

think about it! take it from a guy who felt hopeless and thought he would never get a degree or get to go to a Catholic college himself(Me). Now I am a Catholic theologian. You can do it. Remember your soul. You know yourself.

 

[Chrystal-J]

You can't hide from the real world. Best to learn to deal with it now, cuz you're gonna run into this a lot in your life. (Even among so-called Catholics/Christians.)

Hope things work out for you.

 

[metherion]

So, I'm guessing it's a sociology class or a philosophy class. Remember, you can learn ABOUT something without having to submit to that thing. You can learn ABOUT Islam without becoming a Muslim, you can learn ABOUT communism without becoming a Communist, and you can learn ABOUT relativism without becoming a relativist.

Just remember that you are there to LEARN ABOUT, not to LEARN FOR THE PURPOSE OF BECOMING.

And remember, you have the local Catholic community and this forum for support. Don't feel the need to abandon college over this issue yet. One of the most important things you can learn at college is to learn how to entertain ideas without becoming an adherent to them. Learn what your professor has to say about relativism. Learn the history and the rationale he gives you about it. Learn the topics he uses it with. Entertain the notion. But be able to entertain it without becoming beholden to it.


Edited to add:
Also, remember that depending on the cultures you are talking about, many many cultures didn't accept that the Earth went around the Sun either. The first person to even propose it wasn't until about 300 BC ish in Greece, and that never caught on. By the middle of the 1500s, India I believe only had a partially heliocentric model. Medieval Islam certainly hadn't embraced it by 1200 (that's where the Islamic History class I took ended its talk on astronomy). According to this study reported by Reuters, http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/...-poll-education-science-idUKTRE71A5B920110211
about 32 % of Russians still think the Sun goes around the Earth, and according to this Gallup poll 20% of Americans think the same
http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

So, while I don't know the context about the 'earth goes around the Sun' comments that were frustrating you earlier, just saying that the idea of the Earth going around the Sun is an example of change isn't necessarily a jab at the Church. (Now, he might have made specific jabs you didn't relate, in which case I'm sorry for this huge off topic edit.)


Metherion

 

[Chany]

So, I'm guessing it's a sociology class or a philosophy class. Remember, you can learn ABOUT something without having to submit to that thing. You can learn ABOUT Islam without becoming a Muslim, you can learn ABOUT communism without becoming a Communist, and you can learn ABOUT relativism without becoming a relativist.

Just remember that you are there to LEARN ABOUT, not to LEARN FOR THE PURPOSE OF BECOMING.

And remember, you have the local Catholic community and this forum for support. Don't feel the need to abandon college over this issue yet. One of the most important things you can learn at college is to learn how to entertain ideas without becoming an adherent to them. Learn what your professor has to say about relativism. Learn the history and the rationale he gives you about it. Learn the topics he uses it with. Entertain the notion. But be able to entertain it without becoming beholden to it.

Metherion

It's a first year seminar that was chosen for me. It's called "Gandhi and Nonviolence" but it was originally supposed to be called "Experimentations with Truth."

I actually do have a philosophy course, and I have no problem with it.

My problem is that the seminar professor structures the class for our input and a group discussiondiscussion, then leads us to draw a specific conclusion in a course whose main focus is actually a learning to write and to read above the influence if opinions. It's not an experimentation of truth, where everyone is equal; it's the propagation of his opinions. My ideas don't even seem to be entertained.

My philosophy professor, however, made a point to say he is going to simply present. He refuses to give his opinions because he says that would destroy neutrality, and aims simply to teach and explain. Whenever it is a discussion, he always plays devil's advocate or explains it further.

 

[Chany]

The problem with the sun thing was the discussion after it. He (professor) said it use to be truth that the sun went around the earth. I said that was a false belief and that it didn't change the nature of actual truth. The discussion went on and basically ended with "we can't really know nothing." I can stand moral relativism, but not reality relativism, because almost no one actually believes it. It's just a final point someone raises whenever they've been put down in an argument.

 

[MKJ]

It's a first year seminar that was chosen for me. It's called "Gandhi and Nonviolence" but it was originally supposed to be called "Experimentations with Truth."

I actually do have a philosophy course, and I have no problem with it.

My problem is that the seminar professor structures the class for our input and a group discussiondiscussion, then leads us to draw a specific conclusion in a course whose main focus is actually a learning to write and to read above the influence if opinions. It's not an experimentation of truth, where everyone is equal; it's the propagation of his opinions. My ideas don't even seem to be entertained.

My philosophy professor, however, made a point to say he is going to simply present. He refuses to give his opinions because he says that would destroy neutrality, and aims simply to teach and explain. Whenever it is a discussion, he always plays devil's advocate or explains it further.

Well, you know both approaches are valid in a college level setting. In lower level classes maybe you will see teachers taking a fairly neutral stance as they are often outlining whole areas of study or events. But you will see that less and less as you go on and rarely in a seminar.

University profs aren't really there to be neutral - they are in many cases there because they are not neutral, they represent a point of view. In a Catholic college they would tend to represent a Catholic POV, in a secular one you will get all kinds of perspectives.

That's why grad students choose schools in many cases to learn with a particular prof - they are discipaling themselves to a particular school of thought or way of approaching a topic. Undergrads ideally should be learning a bit more about possible approaches but it is pretty much impossible to avoid learning the approach of the department you are in. If you go to the University of Calgary to learn economics you are going to come out with a particular way of looking at the subject.

But the poster who says you can learn about the ideas without adopting them is right. Though you still have to be honest to learn them and that does mean openness to new ideas.