Well I attended RCIA...

jukesk9 · Mar 9, 2005

ps139 said:
Wow this thread is making me want to go to the Easter Vigil Mass, instead of the one on Sunday.

Have you forgotten that it usually runs around 2 1/2 to 3 hours? (at least it does here...)

SumTinWong · Mar 9, 2005

Well that makes sense thanks Monica. I asked my wife who grew up Catholic about the Sunday service and she said it was a pretty normal service in length. I will have to see if she went to one of these.

aReformedPatriot · Mar 9, 2005

Monica02 said:
If adult converts need baptised-you will see it! Also their confirmation and first communion!

Most excellent. I think i'll get to see about 5 or so then. It will be a fascinating night all around.

InnerPhyre · Mar 9, 2005

TLE, I'm really happy you're enjoying RCIA. Sorry for the snotty woman. If I saw a Baptist come to RCIA just to learn I'd be so thrilled that that he was interested enough to want to learn from the source that I can't imagine being hostile lol.

aReformedPatriot · Mar 9, 2005

InnerPhyre said:
TLE, I'm really happy you're enjoying RCIA. Sorry for the snotty woman. If I saw a Baptist come to RCIA just to learn I'd be so thrilled that that he was interested enough to want to learn from the source that I can't imagine being hostile lol.

No need to appologize for the one lady she was probably just confused or something.

mesue · Mar 9, 2005

Uncle Bud said:
Tossing around the idea of my wife and I going either Easter Sunday or the day before to Saint Pats Catholic Church. Unless the pastor makes a big deal about wanting us at our church then I wont. Usually on Christmas and Easter the place is packed so maybe no one will miss me

Or a Sunrise Service. There's just something about a Resurrection Sunday Service when the sun is just coming up. These services are too early for twice a year-ers.

SumTinWong · Mar 10, 2005

Now that is an idea, thanks mesue!

FLMike · Mar 10, 2005

Uncle Bud said:
Hey FLMike, this thread really isn't the norm (had another thread like this shut down recently) , but it should be. Welcome by the way I am glad you came in to say howdy

Thanks for the welcome. I really need to say that you folks are the friendliest group of Baptists I've found on the net. I was beginning to think every Baptist was an Angry Baptist (at least as far as Catholics are concerned). Now I know better.

Gold Dragon · Mar 10, 2005

FLMike said:
Thanks for the welcome. I really need to say that you folks are the friendliest group of Baptists I've found on the net. I was beginning to think every Baptist was an Angry Baptist (at least as far as Catholics are concerned). Now I know better.

As Uncle Bud said, this thread is the exception rather than the norm. Thanks TLE for setting the tone.

Just wait a few days and I'm sure we'll have a few threads here and in General Theology that appear like your typical angry Baptist.

ZiSunka · Mar 10, 2005

Our church has an awesome sunrise service on Resurrection Day. It's usually a small group of people and the pastor follows a whole different form of service. Instead of the usual order of service, we sit silently in the sanctuary in the dark and wait for the sunrise to start shining through the windows. Then the pastor reads a harmony of the accounts of the empty tomb. Then we retire to separate areas of the church (classrooms, office, library, etc) and meditate on what we heard for about half an hour. Then we gather again and have communion, all in the light of the new sunrise, no artificial lights at all. Then the pastor reads the part in Revelation that talks about how there won't be any sunlight or artificial light in the New Jerusalem because it will be illuminated by God.

Gives us a look back at the Resurrection, time to contemplate what it means to us in the present, and reminds us that the story doesn't stop there, that we have an expectation of a new light in a new world.

Then we go eat pancakes in the fellowship hall!

Gold Dragon · Mar 10, 2005

I'm trying to imagine that awesome visual. Thanks lambslove for sharing that experience.

mmmm. pancakes.

SumTinWong · Mar 10, 2005

lambslove said:
Then we go eat pancakes in the fellowship hall!

Mmmmm. Pancakes. Okay let's take a road trip to LLs church. On the way we can all go to a sunrise mass at Monicas church (and BBQ), and then perhaps hit a Dennys on the way home to talk about it all

aReformedPatriot · Mar 10, 2005

FLMike said:
Thanks for the welcome. I really need to say that you folks are the friendliest group of Baptists I've found on the net. I was beginning to think every Baptist was an Angry Baptist (at least as far as Catholics are concerned). Now I know better.

I think there are many of us who are trying to make this a reality but there are some here on the forums who are bitter Baptist and Catholic alike. I have high hopes that we can be peaceable together. While we may disagree there is no reason that we shouldnt treat each other any differently than we would treat Christ. Did not Jesus say 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

Welcome to B/A.

aReformedPatriot · Mar 10, 2005

Well, I've had my second and last class, next week the class goes through confession and the week after is Holy Thursday so the class is officially over. They are going to try and set up some sorta study on the side but from what they told me last week attempts to do this have been unsuccessful so we shall see.

This week I took my friend Mike with me and heres the gist of what we learned.

Fr. Tony Teaching:

The church is beggining to phase out the words "Mortal and Venial Sin" I failed to right down what they are now calling venial sins but he said simply mortal sins now are just plain "grave sins." This is to catch up with culture.

We discussed when lying is not a sin. Yes you read that right. His reasoning stemmed from what he called "Moral Theology" and defined a lie as "telling untruth to someone in Justice." The examples: A Court of Law, you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so that justice can be established, a valid reason.

The next example was a woman in Nazi Germany lying to a Nazi Officer who asks if she's hiding Jews. Theres about 10 Jews in her attic. If she tells the truth she and her family and all the Jews in her attic will die. Did she sin by saying "no"? The Priest argued no she did not because the Nazi was not asking "In Justice" therefore the question was not valid.

Now, I what I saw this as was equivication and rationalization of sin. I believe the woman by virtue of not answering a direct question in truth lied and sinned against God.

________
The Sacrament:

The reason for this is 2 fold. You've sinned against God and the Church. He said if we are the "true body of Christ as Christians and if you cannot remove your arm, hand head, foot etc. then everytime you sin you sin against everyone who is part of that 'one body.'" It was fascinating.

So in confession the priest said he "represents the body of Christ" and while you confess God is forgiving you. He said something which I dont understand yet.

Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."

I asked him a question on absoloution because he said "I've only threatened to withhold absoloution from one person. I was only threatening of course, only God forgives, I cant absolve anything." Ok I thought, then what do you mean. He pointed me to the above verse as having authority to do that, but then he said he couldnt at the same time.

Mike said he was as confused by his answer as I was. So maybe we missed something.

Those were some of the highlighted moments. I enjoyed the class and I am hoping they succeed in keeping a study going because I dont want to have to wait until next semester.

Mike was a bit antsy he said he almost got up many times to debate and call him a heretic for "leading innocent sheep away." I forgot to mention above but he said something else which I wasnt keen on. He went off on a tangent in response to a question, I forget what it was but his answer was merely, "God is changing right along with us" Mike really didnt like that comment which I can understand.

Unless that study happens, that concludes my RCIA adventure

Gold Dragon · Mar 10, 2005

The Lord's Envoy said:
We discussed when lying is not a sin. Yes you read that right. His reasoning stemmed from what he called "Moral Theology" and defined a lie as "telling untruth to someone in Justice." The examples: A Court of Law, you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so that justice can be established, a valid reason.

The next example was a woman in Nazi Germany lying to a Nazi Officer who asks if she's hiding Jews. Theres about 10 Jews in her attic. If she tells the truth she and her family and all the Jews in her attic will die. Did she sin by saying "no"? The Priest argued no she did not because the Nazi was not asking "In Justice" therefore the question was not valid.

Now, I what I saw this as was equivication and rationalization of sin. I believe the woman by virtue of not answering a direct question in truth lied and sinned against God.

I would have to agree with the priest. There are times when telling the truth is more of a sin than lying. I think the Nazi example is a good one. Rahab helping the Israelite spies get away is another good one. A less serious example would be lying to your friend about a surprise birthday party.

I would agree that bearing false witness is strongly about justice and there are few situations where justice is served by not telling the truth, but they exist.

Filia Mariae · Mar 10, 2005

Bro. Mark,

The Lord's Envoy said:
The church is beggining to phase out the words "Mortal and Venial Sin" I failed to right down what they are now calling venial sins but he said simply mortal sins now are just plain "grave sins." This is to catch up with culture.

Mike was a bit antsy he said he almost got up many times to debate and call him a heretic for "leading innocent sheep away." I forgot to mention above but he said something else which I wasnt keen on. He went off on a tangent in response to a question, I forget what it was but his answer was merely, "God is changing right along with us" Mike really didnt like that comment which I can understand.

Bro. Mark,

Just so you know, these things are emphatically NOT Catholic teaching. If the priest said this to you, he is teaching false doctrines. It is a matter of dogma that God is unchanging. It is also nonsense that we are getting rid of the concept of mortal sin to "catch up to culture."

This kind of liberal feel good nonsense is a notorious problem in RCIA classes.

Pax Christi,
Carly

Stormy · Mar 10, 2005

The Lord's Envoy said:
So im gonna get to see people get baptized and whatnot??????

I am being baptized this Easter!!

(lol I love telling everyone!)

aReformedPatriot · Mar 10, 2005

Carly said:
Bro. Mark,

[/b]

Bro. Mark,

Just so you know, these things are emphatically NOT Catholic teaching. If the priest said this to you, he is teaching false doctrines. It is a matter of dogma that God is unchanging. It is also nonsense that we are getting rid of the concept of mortal sin to "catch up to culture."

This kind of liberal feel good nonsense is a notorious problem in RCIA classes.

Pax Christi,
Carly

Blast!! I finally get to a catechism class and its liberal.... lol...

its a shame its the only one within walking distance too...

aReformedPatriot · Mar 10, 2005

Stormy said:
I am being baptized this Easter!!

(lol I love telling everyone!)

congratulations

Crazy Liz · Mar 11, 2005

The Lord's Envoy said:
The Sacrament:

The reason for this is 2 fold. You've sinned against God and the Church. He said if we are the "true body of Christ as Christians and if you cannot remove your arm, hand head, foot etc. then everytime you sin you sin against everyone who is part of that 'one body.'" It was fascinating.

So in confession the priest said he "represents the body of Christ" and while you confess God is forgiving you. He said something which I dont understand yet.

Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."

I asked him a question on absoloution because he said "I've only threatened to withhold absoloution from one person. I was only threatening of course, only God forgives, I cant absolve anything." Ok I thought, then what do you mean. He pointed me to the above verse as having authority to do that, but then he said he couldnt at the same time.

Mike said he was as confused by his answer as I was. So maybe we missed something.

I think his theology of binding and loosing sounds pretty close to protestant theology. Jesus didn't give this authority to individuals, but to the church, acting together. "You" is plural. That's what "ye" means.

[bible]john 20:23[/bible]

In the KJV, if "you" is singular, it would say "thou."

So when the priest pronounces absolution on the basis of this scripture, he is not speaking for himself or from his own power, but for the church as its representative.

Well I attended RCIA...

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