Welfare recipeints to get drug testing!

[smurfy2day]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021018/ap_on_re_us/welfare_lawsuit_3

 

Welfare Recipients to Get Drug Test
Fri Oct 18, 2:51 PM ET
By DEE-ANN DURBIN, Associated Press Writer

LANSING, Mich. (AP) - A federal appeals court Friday cleared the way for Michigan to test welfare recipients for drug use.

 

U.S. District Court Judge Victoria Roberts halted a pilot drug-testing program in 1999 after a group of welfare recipients and the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) of Michigan argued that the testing is unconstitutional.


A three-judge panel of the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) reversed Roberts' decision Friday, saying the testing program is based on a legitimate need to ensure that public money is not used for illegal purposes.


Robert Sedler, the attorney who sued the state Family Independence Agency on behalf of several welfare recipients, said he will appeal to the full court.


"We are dealing here ... with the suspicionless testing of adults," he said.


Michigan was the first state to pass such a program, and many other states have been watching the case progress, the ACLU said Friday.


According to the Welfare Information Network, a Washington, D.C.-based clearinghouse, states that have drug-testing in some form for welfare recipients include Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma and Oregon.


"It's clear that the Michigan case had a chilling effect, but some states have gone ahead and done it anyway," said Andrea Wilkins, a policy analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures.


In Michigan, the state wants to require welfare applicants in a handful of communities to provide urine samples for drug screening before they can be considered for benefits.


Under the rules of the pilot program, the drug test results wouldn't affect access to food stamps and police wouldn't be notified, but applicants who tested positive for drugs would be sent to treatment and could gradually lose benefits if they failed to go.


Gov. John Engler praised the court ruling Friday and said Michigan plans to reinstate the drug-testing program soon.

"We know that drugs are a significant barrier to employment, and testing and treatment for welfare recipients for drug use is consistent with our goal of helping them reach true self-sufficiency," Engler said

 

[coastie]

Since the do get paid by the government, they are almost as much a government employee as I am, and I have mandatory drug tests.

It'll be good for those of them who struggle with drug addiction. There are always state funded programs to help those people out.

 

[Tami]

Originally posted by smurfy2day
"We are dealing here ... with the suspicionless testing of adults," he said.

 

My thoughts exactly.  Welfare recipients already get a bad rap anyway.  I've heard people say things like, "they're all just lazy bums who don't wanna work" or "all them people do is sit on welfare and crank out more babies so they can make more money." Now if they do this mandatory drug testing they'll be feeding the stereotype that "they're all just a bunch of druggies who like to sit on welfare so they can smoke more dope."  I realize that there are some people who will try to milk the system but I believe that most of them aren't like that so why punish the ones who don't do that because of the few who do?  Nobody has dreams of growing up and being on welfare.  I'm sure that most of these people are hard-working people who are just trying to make ends meet so they can feed their families.  Why make these people feel like they're thought of as shiftless druggies just so they can get help?

 

[coastie]

Whoa whoa whoa.... nobodies saying that welfare recipients are druggies. I've known quite a few military guys who were also on welfare. That's not the deal.

There are a lot of programs in effect to make sure that recipients are making the most of their funds. One is the rule that they can only be unemployed ofr a certain amount of time.

This is good for those out there who are drug addicts. This WILL get them off their bottoms and out there getting the drugs out of their system and getting help.

This is not meant to harm anyone. Look, I am required to do mandatory drug testing every month, and no one thinks that I am an addict because of that... quite to the contrary, they know that I can't because I'll get caught.

 

[smurfy2day]

I don't mean to be a pill here, but that is MY tax dollars going to pay for their drug addictions. As a former government employee, I was required to take drug tests myself. As a recipient of govnernement money, they need to understand that this is done only as a precautionary measure. I for one, and all for the testing of welfare recipients. I am terribly sorry, but McDonald's is ALWAYS hiring. There is absolutely no excuse why people choose to sit on their behinds and collect a check when jobs are much too easy to get.

And while no one may have dreams of ending up on welfare, I would guess that in 8 out of 10 cases, they are cycles that are repeating over and over. Maybe this will be the encouragement for the next generation to get off of welfare, and out into the workforce.

 

[smurfy2day]

Originally posted by Tami
 

My thoughts exactly.  Welfare recipients already get a bad rap anyway.  I've heard people say things like, "they're all just lazy bums who don't wanna work" or "all them people do is sit on welfare and crank out more babies so they can make more money." Now if they do this mandatory drug testing they'll be feeding the stereotype that "they're all just a bunch of druggies who like to sit on welfare so they can smoke more dope."  I realize that there are some people who will try to milk the system but I believe that most of them aren't like that so why punish the ones who don't do that because of the few who do?  Nobody has dreams of growing up and being on welfare.  I'm sure that most of these people are hard-working people who are just trying to make ends meet so they can feed their families.  Why make these people feel like they're thought of as shiftless druggies just so they can get help?

 

One other point I would like to make is that the welfare system has made it MUCH too easy for young un-wed mothers to collect a check, than to marry the daddy of their baby.

 

I also disagree that only a minority are "milking the system" a lot of those people make more with their welfare checks, than I do at a 9-5 job! And most of them do NOT work to support their income either. They can't.

 

[Tami]

Originally posted by coastie
Whoa whoa whoa.... nobodies saying that welfare recipients are druggies. I've known quite a few military guys who were also on welfare. That's not the deal.

Maybe you wouldn't think stupid thoughts like that but don't you think that it won't feed stupid thoughts into other people's minds?  My point is that they already get accused of being lazy, shiftless bums anyway.  Why add "druggie" to the list of insults?  I'm not saying that you do but I think there are a lot of people out there that would.  I've heard so-called "church people" make rude comments about them.  I can just see how it would make them feel worse.


There are a lot of programs in effect to make sure that recipients are making the most of their funds. One is the rule that they can only be unemployed ofr a certain amount of time.

I agree with that rule.  I can see how more people might be inclined to milk the system if that rule weren't in place.  I agree that there need to be some rules.

This is good for those out there who are drug addicts. This WILL get them off their bottoms and out there getting the drugs out of their system and getting help.

Why don't they just kick the ones off of welfare who get busted for drugs?  Then the ones who aren't doing them don't have to feel humiliated just so they can get some help?

This is not meant to harm anyone. Look, I am required to do mandatory drug testing every month, and no one thinks that I am an addict because of that... quite to the contrary, they know that I can't because I'll get caught.

I don't think that you should have to be tested every month either.  Why sould they just assume that you're going to do drugs unless they're policing you?  I could understand them testing you if you walked in there and your pupils were really tiny and you were acting all weird.

(Coastie,

Apparently I did the quote thingy the wrong way but you know which things you said and which things I said so just try to make the most of it, okay?  Maybe some day I'll learn how to use the quote thingy the right way.  Sorry.)

 

[Tami]

Smurfy2day,

You said that there are a lot people on welfare who are making more money than you on your 9-5 job. Do you know any of them personally? I knew someone on welfare who didn't seem to get that much money from the state. I think it was something like $300.00/month but I'm not exactly sure. Do you think you could live off of that?

 

[coastie]

Maybe you wouldn't think stupid thoughts like that but don't you think that it won't feed stupid thoughts into other people's minds? My point is that they already get accused of being lazy, shiftless bums anyway. Why add "druggie" to the list of insults? I'm not saying that you do but I think there are a lot of people out there that would. I've heard so-called "church people" make rude comments about them. I can just see how it would make them feel worse.

It's not like if you see someone using food stamps at the supermarket and say "I bet they're on drugs." Because, you are absolutely right, that would be pretty stupid.

There is no harm in giving these people drug tests and will help weed out those few who actually are milking off the system to feed their habits. The percentage of welfare recipients who are drug addicts may not be high, but the percentage of drug addicts who are on welfare is.

I agree with that rule. I can see how more people might be inclined to milk the system if that rule weren't in place. I agree that there need to be some rules.

In my job I have tons of rules. The drug testing is the least of my worries. And plus it gets rid of the dead weight and allows for a more productive and better quality work force.

Why don't they just kick the ones off of welfare who get busted for drugs? Then the ones who aren't doing them don't have to feel humiliated just so they can get some help?

Why wait until they go to jail to get them some help? Monthly drug tests could get them help before they have passed the point of no return.

I don't see why anyone woudl be humiliated by having a drug test. All you have to do is urinate in a cup every so often. I think that I'd be moe humiliated by not being able to support my family to the point that I hdd to go on welfare. But that's just a stupid man/pride thing.

I don't think that you should have to be tested every month either. Why sould they just assume that you're going to do drugs unless they're policing you? I could understand them testing you if you walked in there and your pupils were really tiny and you were acting all weird.

Honestly, it's no big deal. It's a public safety issue since I'm a dispatcher.

They don't think I'm going to do drugs, but it definately weeds out the losers who do.

Send me a PM and I'll show you how to do the quote thing.

God Bless,

Zach

 

[Tami]

Originally posted by smurfy2day
I don't mean to be a pill here, but that is MY tax dollars going to pay for their drug addictions. As a former government employee, I was required to take drug tests myself. As a recipient of govnernement money, they need to understand that this is done only as a precautionary measure. I for one, and all for the testing of welfare recipients. I am terribly sorry, but McDonald's is ALWAYS hiring. There is absolutely no excuse why people choose to sit on their behinds and collect a check when jobs are much too easy to get.

And while no one may have dreams of ending up on welfare, I would guess that in 8 out of 10 cases, they are cycles that are repeating over and over. Maybe this will be the encouragement for the next generation to get off of welfare, and out into the workforce.

I am all for kicking people off of welfare who get busted for drugs.  I am not for just assuming that everybody might be on drugs so we better test them.  Also, I realize that Mcdonald's is hiring but McDonald's just doesn't cut it.  Do you think you could feed your family with a McDonald's salary?  Some people can't help it.  Some people get ditched by their husbands who don't pay child support and are left to fend for themselves.  I knew one such lady.  Her husband left her with 4 kids so she got on welfare, went to school full-time with a pell grant, got Section 8 and food stamps and just enough money from the state to pay her utilities and maybe some socks and underwear for her kids.  She didn't have loads of extra cash laying around just to blow.  If someone uses the system to better themselves so that one day they can get off of the system then I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Tami]

Okay guys,

I've thought about it and maybe I'm just being a big dork but I'm just sick of people thinking that all welfare recipients are big losers. I've never recieved a welfare check but I can remember being on WIC and I had my WIC folder in my hand and I tried to buy some cheese. There were 2 elderly ladies standing in front of the cheese talking and one turned around and looked at me and saw my WIC folder and she whispered something to her friend and I heard the word "state" and then they just pretended I wasn't there and stayed right in the way of the cheese and kept talking so I couldn't get to it. I knew they were talking about me so I just went to another aisle and went back a few minutes later when they were gone. I just felt really hurt.

Also, I apoligize for sounding so harsh.

 

[coastie]

I personally like the way welfare is run in many states. Instead of just throwing money to the hungry people theyteach them to catch the perverbial fish for themselves.

The system is getting better all of the time and I think that this drug testing program is the next logical step in helping these people help themselves.

Side note: There are quite a few people I know or once knew who are in the military and qualify for welfare.

Zach

 

[Tami]

Coastie,

I do think it's a crying shame that our military people should be in a position to qualify for welfare. They should get paid way more than that. They could get killed in a war at any time and that's how they are thanked.


Tami

 

[coastie]

It didn't used ot be like that, but with the pay cuts in the 90's we were unable to keep up with inflation and the costs of living increases.

We were still made to live in Los Angeles on a small-towner's size paycheck. It just doesn't happen.

Things are getting better though. I only have one or two pieces of 60 year old equipment that i work with nowadays

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by Tami
Smurfy2day,

You said that there are a lot people on welfare who are making more money than you on your 9-5 job. Do you know any of them personally? I knew someone on welfare who didn't seem to get that much money from the state. I think it was something like $300.00/month but I'm not exactly sure. Do you think you could live off of that?

I believe that it varies significantly from state to state since each state is in charge of how to distribute the money.

 

[smurfy2day]

Originally posted by Tami
I am all for kicking people off of welfare who get busted for drugs.  I am not for just assuming that everybody might be on drugs so we better test them.  Also, I realize that Mcdonald's is hiring but McDonald's just doesn't cut it.  Do you think you could feed your family with a McDonald's salary?  Some people can't help it.  Some people get ditched by their husbands who don't pay child support and are left to fend for themselves.  I knew one such lady.  Her husband left her with 4 kids so she got on welfare, went to school full-time with a pell grant, got Section 8 and food stamps and just enough money from the state to pay her utilities and maybe some socks and underwear for her kids.  She didn't have loads of extra cash laying around just to blow.  If someone uses the system to better themselves so that one day they can get off of the system then I don't have a problem with that.

McDonald's would pay much more than the $300.00 a month that you claim one person gets, wouldn't it? I should certainly think that would feed more mouths than a $300.00 a month check.

 

There is nothing wrong with people getting help. NOTHING. WIC., food stamps, those are HELP, and they are fine. (You cant make it on $5.15 an hour and anyone who says they can a.) either lives at home or b.) is flat-out lying to you. What is wrong, is that the majority of the people getting "help" are living on the help, and are NOT doing anything to better themselves.

Instead of welfare, send these people to college, or a trade school. Imagine the possibilities! What a much better investment, than cocaine, or another generation following the same leadership they had all of their lives.

One thing I don't understand is how people can justify sitting on their behinds, NOT working, not doing anything at all, but just sitting, watching tv, or whatever. Not only would I get bored after two days, the Bible says that if you don't eat, you don't work. ( Don't EVEN get me started on those who milk the disability system. That's even worse than welfare!)

 

[wildernesse]

Imagine you have a young child at home and no one to take care of her--she's too young to go to school and there isn't a state-sponsored child care facility. When are you going to be able to work to supplement your income?

As for drug testing, I'm against it in all situations. I personally think that the war on drugs is ridiculous and a complete failure. We are wasting our (taxpayers) money on trying to catch drugs and not investing in programs and communities that could reduce drug dependency and general poverty.

--tibac

 

[coastie]

I'm against it in all situations

Even with police officers, air traffic controllers, surgeons, Judges, college students, pilots, and bus drivers?

We would be the absolute most strung out unproductive culture in the world if it weren't for drug testing.

So we should just go ahead and legalize all drugs or are there particular one's that you would suggest we keep illegal?


Also your scenario of the single mother taking care of her kid. Drug testing will make sure that she is taking adequate care of her child. It will make sure that she is not using her money to buy drugs to feed her habit instead of using it to raise her daughter and put food in her little tummy.

Drug testing benefits everyone... I don't understand how you could see it any other way.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Originally posted by coastie
Since the do get paid by the government, they are almost as much a government employee as I am, and I have mandatory drug tests.

It'll be good for those of them who struggle with drug addiction. There are always state funded programs to help those people out.

Good point!! And also when you go to get hired by a job you have to get tested and give urine samples and you can get surprise random tests too at many jobs, and since they are recieving a check like we are, why not have them tested?? It's also good too because they will get help if they test positive. I see nothing wrong with it. If they were working somewhere they would have to get tested too so.... They are getting free money so why complain about a little test? If they are living right they won't have anything to worry about.


Skye Leigh

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Originally posted by Tami
 

My thoughts exactly.  Welfare recipients already get a bad rap anyway.  I've heard people say things like, "they're all just lazy bums who don't wanna work" or "all them people do is sit on welfare and crank out more babies so they can make more money." Now if they do this mandatory drug testing they'll be feeding the stereotype that "they're all just a bunch of druggies who like to sit on welfare so they can smoke more dope."  I realize that there are some people who will try to milk the system but I believe that most of them aren't like that so why punish the ones who don't do that because of the few who do?  Nobody has dreams of growing up and being on welfare.  I'm sure that most of these people are hard-working people who are just trying to make ends meet so they can feed their families.  Why make these people feel like they're thought of as shiftless druggies just so they can get help?

But what about the suspiciousless drug testing that many people have to take to get hired for a job??? I just had a test for the new job I have and I've never smoked a cigarette, and never used any drugs, so why shouldn't they be tested too?? When they go to get a job they will be tested so... Why should they have it easier than people who work when they are getting free money?

Skye Leigh