I have a weird question to ask! If the punishment of sin is death, then how come animals die? I was reading my Bible last night and this came to my mind, and I cannot even come close to an explanation!
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Weird question!
- Thread starter whoopeedew
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Part of humanity's punishment, perhaps? Not only must we watch our loved ones grow old and die, but we are subjected to the death of the other creatures around us on an even more frequent basis. That's my guess. I know it breaks my heart to see roadkill.
EDIT: Alternatively, it could be the nature of sin itself. It not only "rots" the soul, it also spreads into our surroundings like an infection. Of course, that's getting into a whole metaphysical aura-like area, but it's just something I thought of.
EDIT: Alternatively, it could be the nature of sin itself. It not only "rots" the soul, it also spreads into our surroundings like an infection. Of course, that's getting into a whole metaphysical aura-like area, but it's just something I thought of.
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wayseer
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I see lots of people walking around - and they're dead. You don't have to be dead to be dead.
The creation story in the Bible, as are all such stories, is a story. It explains what we cannot otherwise explain.
The creation story in the Bible, as are all such stories, is a story. It explains what we cannot otherwise explain.
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Gary777
Gary777
IMO, death is really not just the body dying. You'll see that after adams sin death as a force or as a nature or a law crept into all creation. Even curses of all kinds can fall under the category of "death". Man is put over Gods creation and when man fell and gave the authority over to "the snake" and had death enteren in, it just made nature die. Nature, man, animals, flowers and trees - none of these things were ever created to die physically (IMO). Mans sins caused death to come in and even creation itself got under its spell, because man had delgated authority over it. Thats why romans 8 say: "Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. "
Physical death should not be seen as the punishment for sin. It is more part of the "bondage of corruption" that Paul atlked about. The physical death is just a small part of it all, like changing house!
It's the "second death" in rev 20, thats the eternal punishiment the real paymentday for our sins, but theres no animals going in there as i see it!
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. "
Physical death should not be seen as the punishment for sin. It is more part of the "bondage of corruption" that Paul atlked about. The physical death is just a small part of it all, like changing house!
It's the "second death" in rev 20, thats the eternal punishiment the real paymentday for our sins, but theres no animals going in there as i see it!
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Hey Whoopeedew, I agree for the most part with Gary777, it's because of the Fall. Through our race's federal head, Adam, Creation is cursed because of us. Here are a few more examples from Scripture:
How it was:
How it is:
The anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. Romans 8:19-22
So like Gary said, when man fell (sinned) in the Garden, the rest of Creation was corrupted with him. But (TBTG), "just as man's sin brought corruption to the Universe, so man's restoration to righteousness will be accompanyed by the restoration of the Earth and its Universe to their divinley intended perfection and glory" (MacArthur, Romans)
How it was:
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Then God said, Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seedthat is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food; and it was so. Genesis 1:27-30
Then to Adam He said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat from it; Cursed is the ground because of you ....... Genesis 3:17
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. Genesis 3:21
"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant." Genesis 9:3
Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin ..... Romans 5:12
The anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. Romans 8:19-22
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ebia
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One has to stop trying to read the bible in a modern, Western , highly individualistic way that would be completely alien to the biblical authors(and much of the world's population outside the affluent west still). "Sin, therefore death" shouldn't read as "An individual sins therefore he/she dies". Thought the latter might follow from the former, it isn't primarily what the bible is talking about; the biblical writers saw things in a much more collective, community, way.I have a weird question to ask! If the punishment of sin is death, then how come animals die? I was reading my Bible last night and this came to my mind, and I cannot even come close to an explanation!
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unholy
The Inquirer
I have a weird question to ask! If the punishment of sin is death, then how come animals die? I was reading my Bible last night and this came to my mind, and I cannot even come close to an explanation!
The same reasons plants, and pretty much every living thing dies. Because we are sinners. Sin effects all of creation, not only us. Because of the Sin of Adam, we live in a fallen and corrupt world. This world is cursed.
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Nazaroo
Joseph is still alive! (Gen 45.26)
what makes you think animals can't sin?
Anyone who's ever owned a dog can perceive that the animal has some sentience, some self-consicousness, and some awareness of rules it is expected to obey.
Dogs sin for the same reason that children often sin. They give into their desires, not always involuntary instincts, and God gives them the innate ability to know when they have sinned. Even dogs have a conscience.
If a dog is capable of understanding and obeying commands from its Master, but through lack of training, (something we are commanded to do for our children), or neglect/forgetfulness (our fallen nature?), or through meanness of spirit or greed breaks a commandment and commits a sin, the dog is guilty.
It doesn't just feel guilty, a God-given insight, but it IS guilty.
Under the Law of God, animals who commit the sin of goring a human being are punished severely. Is God unjust, or is the animal a sinner? The answer is plain. And on the other hand, we are commanded to show mercy to animals who are injured or trapped, even suspending laws like the sabbath in the cause of mercy. If mercy to an animal is meaningful, then the animal must be more than just a programmed machine. It has feelings, and we are told it is even loved by God.
Mankind may be ultimately responsible for the Fall of his own world, but even in a fallen world, sentient beings with freewill are held accountable for sin, including higher animals.
How could it be otherwise?
peace
Nazaroo
Anyone who's ever owned a dog can perceive that the animal has some sentience, some self-consicousness, and some awareness of rules it is expected to obey.
Dogs sin for the same reason that children often sin. They give into their desires, not always involuntary instincts, and God gives them the innate ability to know when they have sinned. Even dogs have a conscience.
If a dog is capable of understanding and obeying commands from its Master, but through lack of training, (something we are commanded to do for our children), or neglect/forgetfulness (our fallen nature?), or through meanness of spirit or greed breaks a commandment and commits a sin, the dog is guilty.
It doesn't just feel guilty, a God-given insight, but it IS guilty.
Under the Law of God, animals who commit the sin of goring a human being are punished severely. Is God unjust, or is the animal a sinner? The answer is plain. And on the other hand, we are commanded to show mercy to animals who are injured or trapped, even suspending laws like the sabbath in the cause of mercy. If mercy to an animal is meaningful, then the animal must be more than just a programmed machine. It has feelings, and we are told it is even loved by God.
Mankind may be ultimately responsible for the Fall of his own world, but even in a fallen world, sentient beings with freewill are held accountable for sin, including higher animals.
How could it be otherwise?
peace
Nazaroo
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J
JohnDeereFan
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I have a weird question to ask! If the punishment of sin is death, then how come animals die? I was reading my Bible last night and this came to my mind, and I cannot even come close to an explanation!
Romans cc 5-7 talks about this. When sin entered the world, it's effects, including death, sickness, disease, catastrophy, etc, affected all of creation, including animals.
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I have a weird question to ask! If the punishment of sin is death, then how come animals die? I was reading my Bible last night and this came to my mind, and I cannot even come close to an explanation!
Animal where not made is God's image, so the where never made to live forever, humans are made in God's image, so a God never dies humans can be the same.
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J
JohnDeereFan
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Actually, that's not what the Bible says. When the Bible says that man is made in God's image, it's talking about His communicable attributes, that is, His character. It doesn't have anything to do with living forever.
When man was created, he was to live forever because there was no sin and, as such, no death.
Animals would also have lived forever if not for the introduction of death into the world.
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I do not agree:-
KJV Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
No mention of animals!
Hiuman cannot live for ever if the do not reflect God's charateristics so it does mean living forever = no love no life!
To live forever humans have to worship God; animals cannot do that!!!!
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J
JohnDeereFan
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But they could live forever if there was no death.
How did they die if there was no death?
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Animals where never made to live forever,
The do not know God.
They cannot sin, as sin is the cause of death, thus they where created to die at some point.
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chosenpath
Senior Veteran
I just wanted to run these scriptures by everyone.
Job 38:39-41
"Can you hunt the prey for the lion, Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, When they crouch in [their] dens, [Or] lurk in their lairs to lie in wait? Who provides food for the raven, When its young ones cry to God, And wander about for lack of food?
Job 39:13-18
"The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, But are her wings and pinions [like the] kindly stork's? For she leaves her eggs on the ground, And warms them in the dust;
She forgets that a foot may crush them, Or that a wild beast may break them. She treats her young harshly, as though [they were] not hers; Her labor is in vain, without concern, Because God deprived her of wisdom, And did not endow her with understanding. When she lifts herself on high, She scorns the horse and its rider.
Ecclesiates 3:18-21
I said in my heart, "Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are [like] animals." For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all [is] vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
I bring this scripture up because of
Genesis 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You [are] cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
Job 38:39-41
"Can you hunt the prey for the lion, Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, When they crouch in [their] dens, [Or] lurk in their lairs to lie in wait? Who provides food for the raven, When its young ones cry to God, And wander about for lack of food?
Job 39:13-18
"The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, But are her wings and pinions [like the] kindly stork's? For she leaves her eggs on the ground, And warms them in the dust;
She forgets that a foot may crush them, Or that a wild beast may break them. She treats her young harshly, as though [they were] not hers; Her labor is in vain, without concern, Because God deprived her of wisdom, And did not endow her with understanding. When she lifts herself on high, She scorns the horse and its rider.
Ecclesiates 3:18-21
I said in my heart, "Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are [like] animals." For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all [is] vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
I bring this scripture up because of
Genesis 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You [are] cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
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