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You're the one who is muddling regeneration and justification with sanctification. It isn't me.
You might want to write more carefully. You said -
'No good works = no saving faith = no regeneration'
This is the negative of 'good works = saving faith = regeneration'.
I don't think Moses and David were mentioned in 1 John either. You keep ignoring the fact repentance is available to all you have godly sorrow. Genuine repentance is the remittance, therefore pardon of sin.
And all you do is sit back and do nothing while eating popcorn? Good works will never be a part of your life, unless you actually do them. It's nice to think you will do them or that you have what it takes to do them, but that won't get them done. You actually have to do it. This is called synergism, man cooperating with God.
Jesus called the servant who did nothing, wicked and lazy (Matt. 25:26).
You are a master straw man builder you know it? How in the world do you know what kind of works I have? You know nothing about me. You have a lot of nerve judging me like this.
I agree bro , but it's just an old tactic to attempt to discredit a person instead of grasping the argument , seen it a hundred times on these forums , it's smoke screens like that which prevent serious discussion
I honestly don't know why he's arguing with me about works. I never once denied the necessity of them, nor did I justify a lifestyle of sinning.
You still haven't mentioned what I was talking about , keep at it
You are a master straw man builder you know it? How in the world do you know what kind of works I have? You know nothing about me. You have a lot of nerve judging me like this. Ad hominems don't work by the way. Might wanna study that fallacy too.
I agree bro , but it's just an old tactic to attempt to discredit a person instead of grasping the argument , seen it a hundred times on these forums , it's smoke screens like that which prevent serious discussion
I agree , mention Gods sovereignty and a box of false accusations will fly
Declaration
Good works are essential , they are necessary , they don't save anymore than faith itself saves us , it is Christ all the way .
You must be referring to 'hate' and 'murder', which I have mentioned.
But the question still remains, would we (or could) we present our bodies as living sacrifices acceptable to God if we didn't have the fruit of the Holy Spirit? If we are united to Christ and being fed by the 'vine', would that not be considered God's work? Is it God who is doing a good work in us and conforming us to Christ-likeness or are we left trying to conform ourselves to His likeness by obediance to His law? If God is love and we are being conformed to His image, which is love, is not God moving us to act in love? Does not scripture say we are His workmanship? You see the arguement here?Of course I believe in sanctification and justification. I just showed you both are needed for salvation. Without sanctification, no one will see God. Pretty clear, don't you think?
Paul says in Romans 12:1 to 'present your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable to God, WHICH IS YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE'. We see here, sanctification is the reasonable service of man himself. This is a service man performs.
Without justification, man is still in his sins. Repentance is the remedy for pardoning of sins, as I have shown. Again, pretty clear.
Jesus said those who do good will attain to the resurrection of life. Which category would you put 'doing good' in order to attain this resurrection?
I said nothing of your actual works; it was a scenario I presented. Are you looking for Oz? Follow the yellow brick road.
Did moses and David murder ?
Then are they saved , has a person who commits murder been forgiven do they have eternal life ?
Then why didn't John say if they repent its fine ?
For declaring a person saved , obviously .
So, if good works are missing, is the person saved? If good works are missing, would this declare him lost?
But the question still remains, would we (or could) we present our bodies as living sacrifices acceptable to God if we didn't have the fruit of the Holy Spirit? If we are united to Christ and being fed by the 'vine', would that not be considered God's work?
Is it God who is doing a good work in us and conforming us to Christ-likeness or are we left trying to conform ourselves to His likeness by obediance to His law? If God is love and we are being conformed to His image, which is love, is not God moving us to act in love? Does not scripture say we are His workmanship? You see the arguement here?
Also, if you collapse the roles of justification & sanctification and law & gospel too much, would you not end up with a form of legalism, ie. having a situation where the law conforms us in our sanctification (and not the power of the Gospel working its own power in both justification and sanctification - ie. we love because He loved us first).
Thus, if one continues to collapse the roles into themselves, would we not have to basically be justified twice, ie. once at conversion and then a final justification rendered according to our own works. Isn't that what the RCC does? Isn't that works righteousness?
I would say that if good works are missing, they are not saved. You can tell a tree by it's fruit. No fruit equals dead tree.
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