Weary in well doing

[YatzivPatgam]

And who decides what is legitimate theology when there is no monolithic agreement?

By the method of finding Theological truths.

Had Marx found thousands of Jewish followers who were willing to die for him (as Yeshua did), then the answer would be "yes"

Yea- they sure came out in droves. He was already most likely forgotten by the time of Bar Kochba.

Oh? They are still jewish? Can you see how this contradicts your position on messianic jews?

Once Jewish, you never cease being Jewish, but you can cease having Jewish beliefs. Lubavitcher Messiants, Shabbati Zvi's followers and Mezzies all fall into the same category.

 

[yod]

Quote:Had Marx found thousands of Jewish followers who were willing to die for him (as Yeshua did), then the answer would be "yes"

Yea- they sure came out in droves. He was already most likely forgotten by the time of Bar Kochba.

well now you are not being intellectually honest. This makes me a little suspect about your motives. I started contacting rabbis to talk to you and I've gotten a few responses.

You accused me of lying about all Orthodox trained rabbis. Here is the first one....and last one if you don't behave.


Hi ***,

I'd LOVE to speak with him and give him all the information he wants, and

have a friendly non-confrontational concersation. I'm not that great with

email, but if he'd like I'd give him a call. Meanwhile, you can let him

know that I spent a year at Beit Medrash L'Torah in Bayit v'Gan (part of

Jerusalem) and two years in the Kollel at Bar-Ilan Univeristy, before

Igraduated from Yeshiva University in New York City. Also, I volunteered

while living in Israel with a group called Yad L'achim, which is a

counter-missionary organization -- so I KNEW the New Testament better then

most Chrisitans, and I knew why it was a false book. (G-d sure loves

irony!)

Regarding other Rabbis who have become Believers, I know many, but I know

very few Orthodox Rabbis who have become Believers. I've met a few over the

years, but none from my yeshiva. In fact, I still get hate email at least

once a week from old yeshiva buddies (stuff like: you're a traitor . . .

you've turned your back on your people . . . you've gone to Hitler's side).

I can'te get upset at them, because until seven years ago I felt exactly the

same way. Still, it hurts.

Recently, I met a few Chabad (Lubovitch) rabbis on my last trip to Brooklyn

who have become Believers. I friend of mine is discipling them, but they

are "in the closet" for now. And I don't blame them.

Still, let him know that while I grew up very Orthodox, and lived an

Orthodox lifestyle until around age 28, I'm a regular guy and I'd love to

chat. If you'd like, you can pass this on to him.

Blessings!

Peter

 

[YatzivPatgam]

BS'D

well now you are not being intellectually honest.

Could you show otherwise?

This makes me a little suspect about your motives.

Which is?....I have been fairly blunt from the beggining.

I started contacting rabbis to talk to you and I've gotten a few responses.

Excellent! Thank you. Just pass along my E-mail and if they wish, they can contact me.

You accused me of lying about all Orthodox trained rabbis

Here is a list of my quotes, can you please show me where I was invective, insulting or accused you of lying? ;

I wish I had a shekel for every time I have heard this. Oddly enough, I can't track down these well educated "Orthodox Jews" who have had their eyes "opened". I'll try again;

You wouldn't happen to have these men's E-mail would you? Also, where did they obtain their smeeka? Which Yeshiva's did they attend and where were they located?

Here is the first one....and last one if you don't behave.

How am I misbehaving? Becuase I am to the point? By the by, I already see some things here from Peter I find intresting...

Beit Medrash L'Torah in Bayit v'Gan (part of

Jerusalem)

Not exactly a part of the city where this particular Beit would be, not to mention, why he was a member.

Also, I volunteered

while living in Israel with a group called Yad L'achim

I may be confuseing something here, but Yad L'achim isn't a counter missionary organization.

Also, with statements like this;

I grew up very Orthodox, and lived an

Orthodox lifestyle until around age 28

but he will let certian keywords like this slip...

I friend of mine is discipling them

Emphasis mine.

Peter and I have much to talk about.

 

[yod]

Here is a list of my quotes, can you please show me where I was invective, insulting or accused you of lying? ;
Quote:I wish I had a shekel for every time I have heard this.

Maybe I got a bit defensive but this implies that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I may be confuseing something here, but Yad L'achim isn't a counter missionary organization.

you MUST be confused because they absolutely are. Do they serve any other purpose?

http://www.anshe.org/YadLAchim/yad1.htm

How am I misbehaving? Because I am to the point?

I get the impression that you only want an arguement. That is quite different than an honest discussion.

Peter is one of the messianic rabbis I know who were raised to be Orthodox rabbis and studied in yeshiva. Not all of them are currently rabbis but that doesn't change the fact that they were being trained for it. Peter never actually became an Orthodox rabbi though he graduated because he made a lot of money as a sales consultant and motivational speaker at large corporate conventions.

I know of 2 other messianic rabbis who are actually EX-Orthodox rabbis. I can't count how many ex-orthodox jews I know. Admittedly, most messianics I know were completely secular previously

What is your story?

I will PM his email address to you. He does not want to communicate by email so he asked that you send him your phone number and best time to call.

 

[SonWorshipper]

What is BS'd?

 

[YatzivPatgam]

What is BS'd?

The letters stand for B'Siyata D'Shmaya. It's Aramaic, and it means "with the help of Heaven."

I write it instead of B'H ( Bet Heh or Baruach HaShem ) becuase that contains a letter of HaShem's Holy Name and I don't want it destroyed by mistake

I write BS'D ontop of all of my test papers

 

[YatzivPatgam]

Maybe I got a bit defensive but this implies that I don't know what I'm talking about.

you MUST be confused because they absolutely are. Do they serve any other purpose?

I stand corrected, I thought they were more of an extremist group. Thanks for the link.

What is your story?

Born a Jew. Raised a Jew. Want to keep Jews in Judaism

I will PM his email address to you. He does not want to communicate by email so he asked that you send him your phone number and best time to call.

Got it.