"We will not walk therein."

[LordDrek]

Hello, all. This is my first post on this site.

I'm looking for some feedback from Christians who are concerned and "vexed" over the condition of our modern (some would say "Laodicean") church. Ministers like Joel Osteen fill football stadiums with non-biblical teachings on prosperity and fail to mention the blood of Jesus or repentance from sin. Rick Warren and Rob Bell, two leaders in the emergent church movement, have introduced an entire generation of Christians to such new-age concepts as contemplative prayer and Ecumenism (all faiths are valid paths to God). Rock and roll has replaced the Rock of Ages in the hymnals. And at the core of what I believe is the great falling away that Paul described in 2 Thessalonians, the KJV Bible has been removed from our churches in favor of newer versions that water down crucial doctrines of Christianity that nourish the souls of Christians young and old. The church has been dying since the KJV lost its status as the de facto Bible for English speakers.

I become downtrodden in my spirit when I try and speak out against a false prophet, or try to show someone information on the NWO agenda, or point out the Bible version issue, only to be scorned and ridiculed, particularly by other "Christians". Of course, the Bible prophesied that such days would come, but it's discouraging nonetheless. Seeing millions of spiritually anemic Christians follow every word of rich and wicked false teachers while they scorn and mock the "old paths" is really frustrating.

Can anyone else out there relate?

 

[OzSpen]

Hello, all. This is my first post on this site.

I'm looking for some feedback from Christians who are concerned and "vexed" over the condition of our modern (some would say "Laodicean") church. Ministers like Joel Osteen fill football stadiums with non-biblical teachings on prosperity and fail to mention the blood of Jesus or repentance from sin. Rick Warren and Rob Bell, two leaders in the emergent church movement, have introduced an entire generation of Christians to such new-age concepts as contemplative prayer and Ecumenism (all faiths are valid paths to God). Rock and roll has replaced the Rock of Ages in the hymnals. And at the core of what I believe is the great falling away that Paul described in 2 Thessalonians, the KJV Bible has been removed from our churches in favor of newer versions that water down crucial doctrines of Christianity that nourish the souls of Christians young and old. The church has been dying since the KJV lost its status as the de facto Bible for English speakers.

I become downtrodden in my spirit when I try and speak out against a false prophet, or try to show someone information on the NWO agenda, or point out the Bible version issue, only to be scorned and ridiculed, particularly by other "Christians". Of course, the Bible prophesied that such days would come, but it's discouraging nonetheless. Seeing millions of spiritually anemic Christians follow every word of rich and wicked false teachers while they scorn and mock the "old paths" is really frustrating.

Can anyone else out there relate?

LordDrek,

Welcome to CF. I trust that you will have many enjoyable experiences in your encounters with us on this Forum.

If you want to discuss the issue regarding Bible versions, why don't you join the thread in this directory: "King James Version why the best?" I personally would not support your exaltation of the KJV over other versions. We have more accurate and reliable MSS now available than those use for the KJV. However, go to this thread for a discussion of these matters.

As for the lack of teaching, the wrong teaching, and the rock 'n roll music with lite lyrics in our churches, I am convinced that we ordinary Christians can only address this at the local church level. Try writing to Benny Hinn or Rick Warren and see how you get on.

Are you in a situation where you can go to a church that teaches the Bible faithfully and sings songs/hymns of substance when the church gathers? Or are you in a remote area where that is not possible?

When my wife an I arrived in Brisbane, Australia, from a regional city 12 months ago, we visited 7 churches before we found one that was suitable - that had solid teaching and sang songs of substance.

May the Lord encourage you with your interaction on CF and help you find a church that meets the criteria your have suggested.

In Christ, Oz

 

[samaus12345]

creation.com

 

[rdcast]

Hello, all. This is my first post on this site.

I'm looking for some feedback from Christians who are concerned and "vexed" over the condition of our modern (some would say "Laodicean") church. Ministers like Joel Osteen fill football stadiums with non-biblical teachings on prosperity and fail to mention the blood of Jesus or repentance from sin. Rick Warren and Rob Bell, two leaders in the emergent church movement, have introduced an entire generation of Christians to such new-age concepts as contemplative prayer and Ecumenism (all faiths are valid paths to God). Rock and roll has replaced the Rock of Ages in the hymnals. And at the core of what I believe is the great falling away that Paul described in 2 Thessalonians, the KJV Bible has been removed from our churches in favor of newer versions that water down crucial doctrines of Christianity that nourish the souls of Christians young and old. The church has been dying since the KJV lost its status as the de facto Bible for English speakers.

I become downtrodden in my spirit when I try and speak out against a false prophet, or try to show someone information on the NWO agenda, or point out the Bible version issue, only to be scorned and ridiculed, particularly by other "Christians". Of course, the Bible prophesied that such days would come, but it's discouraging nonetheless. Seeing millions of spiritually anemic Christians follow every word of rich and wicked false teachers while they scorn and mock the "old paths" is really frustrating.

Can anyone else out there relate?

Hi LordDrek,
Welcome and congratulations for finding us
Let me quote a verse from my desktop image:
Romans 12:12 (New King James Version)
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;

I want you to consider this with me for a moment. Using the KJV, in the OT, the term tithe is mentioned 25 times and only 7 in the NT, none favorably. A search for the term alms reveals ZERO instances in the OT, yet 14 times in the NT where alms is mentioned most favorably.

Compare the two concepts and we might agree that tithing is like alms in that both represents giving, yet tithing comes from the OT while alms began entirely in the NT. Tithing represents a mandatory need to give 10% of wealth openly to the synagogue, while alms is given directly to the poor in total secrecy, so only God knows.

Like so many other traditions or commands of the OT, as they pass into the NT, they become fulfilled and not destroyed, But why do we never hear a sermon on the giving of alms, but rather everlasting sermons on tithing to the Church? This is where corruption of money has weakened us as the Body of Christ.

Again LordDrek, WELCOME!!!

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Where it is true that conspiracies do exist, for we know who the master conspirator is in all creation. The problem with NWO discussions and all the other "demons" at which we may point a finger, flesh and blood tends to get in the way of what we are REALLY supposed to address. The Bible says that our warfare is with the powers and principalities of the air, not with flesh and blood. People and all the man-made organizations of men are not the oebjects against which we war.

Jesus instructed that we are not to worry about tomorrow. The future of our nation is in the hands of the Most High. We should fight our own battles against our flesh and desires, stand in the gap for others in the name of Christ Jesus, and refuse to take upon ourselves a battle much too large for us to wage.....unless one is empowered by the Lord to wage war against nations, states, counties and cities, which I doubt either one of us is currently empowered.

Let Olsteen and all his ilk rake in their riches on this earth, for they have their reward here. It's enough to tremble from the fear of the Lord and the difficulty walking the path we must walk to that narrow gate so few ever find.

Keep in mind that MOST who have ever lived on this earth will perish in the flames of Hell. That proportion was already illustated to us by the words Jesus spoke. We have enough to do already to bring the TRUTH to those who will listen, and to battle evil in our own lives.

Evil men who teach falsehoods, whether person-to-person or in filled stadiums, will be judged by the Righteous Judge in due time.

Simply be about the work the Lord has set out for YOU to do, and He will strengthen you in your weaknesses, for it is in our weakness that His perfect Power is realized moreso by the believer, and made perfect to and in us.

The dead end debates about Bible versions routinely ignore the power of the Holy Spirit to break through any and all fallacies and barriers of translation. Any translation that tries to lay claim to infallibility is a fallacy.

BTW

 

[rdcast]

The dead end debates about Bible versions routinely ignore the power of the Holy Spirit to break through any and all fallacies and barriers of translation. Any translation that tries to lay claim to infallibility is a fallacy.

I agree whol-heartedly with your view in this.

 

[OzSpen]

BeforeThereWas,
Your view sounds reasonable until I look at the specifics of Scripture:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV).

What is the purpose of Scripture? To
- teach
- rebuke
- correct
- train

Therefore, I cannot allow false teaching not to be addressed and corrected. The standard is Scripture and this rebuking and correcting must be done by the standard of Scripture. False doctrine will spread if it is not taught against, rebuked and corrected.

To be a faithful believer in Christ, we are required to correct and rebuke the false because Jesus warned us that

many false prophets will arise and lead many astray (Matt 24:11). (

Do you want many in your church to be led astray? If you don't, there needs to be teaching of the truth, against falsehood and the correcting and rebuking of those in error.

That's Bible.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[Gnarwhal]

Hello, all. This is my first post on this site.

I'm looking for some feedback from Christians who are concerned and "vexed" over the condition of our modern (some would say "Laodicean") church. Ministers like Joel Osteen fill football stadiums with non-biblical teachings on prosperity and fail to mention the blood of Jesus or repentance from sin. Rick Warren and Rob Bell, two leaders in the emergent church movement, have introduced an entire generation of Christians to such new-age concepts as contemplative prayer and Ecumenism (all faiths are valid paths to God). Rock and roll has replaced the Rock of Ages in the hymnals. And at the core of what I believe is the great falling away that Paul described in 2 Thessalonians, the KJV Bible has been removed from our churches in favor of newer versions that water down crucial doctrines of Christianity that nourish the souls of Christians young and old. The church has been dying since the KJV lost its status as the de facto Bible for English speakers.

I become downtrodden in my spirit when I try and speak out against a false prophet, or try to show someone information on the NWO agenda, or point out the Bible version issue, only to be scorned and ridiculed, particularly by other "Christians". Of course, the Bible prophesied that such days would come, but it's discouraging nonetheless. Seeing millions of spiritually anemic Christians follow every word of rich and wicked false teachers while they scorn and mock the "old paths" is really frustrating.

Can anyone else out there relate?

Nope, I can't relate.

1. Rob Bell is an excellent teacher and has been a wonderful and significant influence in my walk with Christ, and I wholly believe his theologies are in line with the historic and orthodox Christian faith. It's ridiculous to even put him in the same sentence with the likes of Osteen, that guy's nothing more than a Christian Tony Robbins, but Rob Bell actually dives into the depth and complexity of the Christian faith and comes out with some excellent material.

2. The KJV is not the bees knees and not every other version is "watered down" as you say, in fact I maintain that very few are actually poor translations. I have in my collection an NIV, TNIV and an NRSV (New Oxford Annotated Bible) all of which I prize far more than the archaic text of the KJV. In fact, I've seen and heard some compelling arguments as to why the KJV itself is flawed (translated from the Latin Vulgate).

3. The NWO is a complete fabrication, something perpetuated by lunatics like Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. It's all based around the heresy of Dispensationalism which is a theology invented in the early-mid 19th century by John Nelson Darby and his associates with the Plymouth Brethren.

My only concerns lie in large with the American church. So much of Protestantism (and especially Evangelicalism) has become enamored with itself. We behave sanctimoniously in the face of other nations and arrogantly believe we're bringing God everywhere we go to introduce him to the rest of the "pagan world", as if he weren't omnipotent and sovereign. On top of that, we treat non-believers as though they were just some kind of notch on our proverbial belt to carve out when they're "saved", like each one is a pledge made for a marathon.

Add to that the immense ethnocentrism, we devote the majority of our resources to our churches, in our towns, in our country. We love and help our people, but the rest of the world isn't much of a priority.

 

[OzSpen]

Nope, I can't relate.

1. Rob Bell is an excellent teacher and has been a wonderful and significant influence in my walk with Christ, and I wholly believe his theologies are in line with the historic and orthodox Christian faith. It's ridiculous to even put him in the same sentence with the likes of Osteen, that guy's nothing more than a Christian Tony Robbins, but Rob Bell actually dives into the depth and complexity of the Christian faith and comes out with some excellent material.

The New York Times made this comment about Rob Bell’s book:

In a book to be published this monthhttp://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn3_7258[Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived (New York: HarperOne 2011).], the pastor, Rob Bell, known for his provocative views and appeal among the young, describes as “misguided and toxic” the dogma that “a select few Christians will spend forever in a peaceful, joyous place called heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better”.http://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn4_7258[Erik Eckholm, “Pastor stirs wrath with his views on old questions”, The New York Times, 4 March 2011, available at: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/us/05bell.html]

This report in The New York Times claimed that

the furor was touched off last Saturday by a widely read Christian blogger, Justin Taylor, based on promotional summaries of the book and a video produced by Mr. Bell. In his blog, Between Two Worlds, Mr. Taylor said that the pastor “is moving farther and farther away from anything resembling biblical Christianity.”
It is unspeakably sad when those called to be ministers of the Word distort the gospel and deceive the people of God with false doctrine,” wrote Mr. Taylor, who is vice president of Crossway, a Christian publisher in Wheaton, Ill.http://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn5_7258[ibid]
​

What were the responses of other evangelical leaders to Rob Bell’shttp://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn6_7258[ibid] comments?

One leading evangelical, John Piper of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, wrote, “Farewell Rob Bell.” R. Albert Mohler Jr.http://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn7_7258[Albert Mohler Jr’s brief critique of Rob Bell’s theology is titled, “Universalism as a lure. The emerging case of Rob Bell“.], president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said in a blog post that by suggesting that people who do not embrace Jesus may still be saved, Mr. Bell was at best toying with heresy. He called the promotional video, in which Mr. Bell pointedly asks whether it can be true that Gandhi, a non-Christian, is burning in hell, “the sad equivalent of a theological striptease”.http://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2011/09/19/where-will-unbelievers-go-at-death/#_ftn8_7258[The New York Times, loc. cit.]

Disbelief in the doctrine of hell and support of universalism are serious theological issues.


Oz

​

 

[Gnarwhal]

Well for one I don't take my theological cues from a newspaper, and two, I tend to disagree with fundiegelicals like John Piper anyway.

Here's the thing: I've actually read the book, what Bell is chastising is the arrogant certainty that's born in evangelicalism which says "so and so is in hell without a doubt". He's counteracting that rubbish by saying we don't know for sure (because we're not God) and as Christians who share in the love of Christ we should maintain a posture of hope that all may eventually be reconciled to God through Christ.

Once and for all, he does not support universalism - he's emphatically denied this on several occasions.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[OzSpen]

Well for one I don't take my theological cues from a newspaper, and two, I tend to disagree with fundiegelicals like John Piper anyway.

Here's the thing: I've actually read the book, what Bell is chastising is the arrogant certainty that's born in evangelicalism which says "so and so is in hell without a doubt". He's counteracting that rubbish by saying we don't know for sure (because we're not God) and as Christians who share in the love of Christ we should maintain a posture of hope that all may eventually be reconciled to God through Christ.

Once and for all, he does not support universalism - he's emphatically denied this on several occasions.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

But you do take your cues from another frail human being, Rob Bell, whose doctrines concerning the eternal destiny of people and the salvation of the world have been questioned by those with considerable theological training.

For you to categorise the doctrine of hell as "that rubbish" tells me something about your presuppositions concerning Scripture when you use these presuppositional triggers of aspectual and intonation indicators.

You state that you and Bell believe that

a posture of hope that all may eventually be reconciled to God through Christ.

We know that God is not wishing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), but we do know that those who believe in Christ for salvation will not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). But we also know that "the way of the wicked will perish" (Psalm 1:6).

Therefore, some who continue in their wickedness will experience what God calls "perish". However, who those people are is God's business. It is not my call. We do know that they are the wicked who continue in their sin and do not repent and trust God alone for their salvation.

Rob Bell has become uncertain in his teaching on hell and questionable in his tendency towards universalism.

By the way, to condemn a preacher such as John Piper without dealing with the biblical issues surrounding his teaching does look awfully like a straw man logical fallacy.

If Rob Bell has fundamentally denied his support of universalism, your assertions do not provide suitable evidence. Please give us a few direct quotes with specific references to where he has stated these and where we can locate them. Online sources would be helpful.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[Gnarwhal]

But you do take your cues from another frail human being, Rob Bell, whose doctrines concerning the eternal destiny of people and the salvation of the world have been questioned by those with considerable theological training.

Bell's critics don't constitute the entire makeup of the Christian community, only the segment with the loudest voices. In my pursuit of Eastern Orthodoxy I've found that his conclusions are largely inline with the historic faith. It's a conversation that's been happening since the inception of the Holy Faith, and while some have taken it too far and insisted that all will be saved, not everyone has, and I believe Bell is among the people in history who's participated in the conversation without going too far.

For you to categorise the doctrine of hell as "that rubbish" tells me something about your presuppositions concerning Scripture when you use these presuppositional triggers of aspectual and intonation indicators.

Ah, but that's where you're not understanding. The rubbish is the arrogant attitude of many Christians that insist they know exactly who's in and who's out, I'm sorry but that doesn't fly—we're not the judge.

We know that God is not wishing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), but we do know that those who believe in Christ for salvation will not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). But we also know that "the way of the wicked will perish" (Psalm 1:6).

Therefore, some who continue in their wickedness will experience what God calls "perish". However, who those people are is God's business. It is not my call. We do know that they are the wicked who continue in their sin and do not repent and trust God alone for their salvation.

We also see that "...God was pleased to have his fullness dwell in [Christ], and through him to reconcile all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross." (Col 1.19-20) as well as "All mankind will see God's salvation" (Luke 3.6) and "and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52.10)

Bell's insistance is not that we know all will be save, nor is it that we know all won't. That's just it! It's that we don't know, but it's fitting that we always hope for the salvation of all.

Rob Bell has become uncertain in his teaching on hell and questionable in his tendency towards universalism.

By the way, to condemn a preacher such as John Piper without dealing with the biblical issues surrounding his teaching does look awfully like a straw man logical fallacy.

John Piper is a strict Calvinist, a soteriological view of which I do not agree with. He believes in double predestination, which I believe is a theological abortion.

If Rob Bell has fundamentally denied his support of universalism, your assertions do not provide suitable evidence. Please give us a few direct quotes with specific references to where he has stated these and where we can locate them. Online sources would be helpful.

I transcribed this from the March 2011 podcast, he says:

"My name is Rob and I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan and I'm a Christian, and... [audience applauses] ...I uh, and I believe in Jesus and I believe Jesus is the way, and I believe in heaven and I believe in hell and believe the bible's God's word, and I'm not a universalist cause I believe God's love is so great God lets you decide, I believe in the communion of the saints, I believe the church of the fullness, I believe in the new heaven and the new earth, I believe in healing, I believe in miracles, I believe in salvation I believe in the power of prayer, I believe that God is alive and working, I believe there's been a resurrection and there's a whole new creation bursting forth right here in the midst of this one, and I also believe it's best to only discuss books you've actually read."​

At 00:15 he states he's not a universalist.

Rob Bell Comes Clean!!! - YouTube

 

[OzSpen]

Bourne,

Christianity Today's review of Love Wins, 'Rob Bell's bridge too far', raises enough issues for me to be wary of his theology.

I don't agree with everything John Piper teaches either. I test his evidence by the Scriptures as I try to do with Rob Bell. But I notice that you provided no evidence of Piper's view to support your claim. Please do the right thing by providing evidence when you make such claims.

Yes, Rob Bell states that he does believe in hell, but please provide me with evidence that Bell supports the view of hell being eternal, as in Matt. 25:46,

And these [the unrighteous - he calls them goats] will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous [he identifies them as sheep] into eternal life (ESV).

What makes Rob Bell's theology so attractive to you?

Oz

 

[ebedmelech]

Welcome to CF.

You'll have plenty of places to voice your views concerns and beliefs.

I will say I disagree with you about the KJV. Several of the "word for word" modern translations are just as good if not better.

I primarily use the NASB myself.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

BeforeThereWas,
Your view sounds reasonable until I look at the specifics of Scripture:

What is the purpose of Scripture? To
- teach
- rebuke
- correct
- train

Therefore, I cannot allow false teaching not to be addressed and corrected. The standard is Scripture and this rebuking and correcting must be done by the standard of Scripture. False doctrine will spread if it is not taught against, rebuked and corrected.

To be a faithful believer in Christ, we are required to correct and rebuke the false because Jesus warned us that

Do you want many in your church to be led astray? If you don't, there needs to be teaching of the truth, against falsehood and the correcting and rebuking of those in error.

That's Bible.

Sincerely, Oz

You certainly stepped up to the plate as one who appears to have a lesser trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome difficulties in translations. If that's true, then:

What I see going on in your system of reasoning is that you're confusing the very word of God as being one and the same with modern/historic translations. The translations clearly disagree with one another at various points throughout, and one doesn't need a degree in theology to see that.

Even the King James translators admitted they didn't consider their translation the "best" translation. What matters most is that we receive our direction, first and foremost, the Spirit of the Lord (1 John 2:27) and from His truly ordained and empowered shepherds (for those in need of discipleship).

Just because some dude has a degree from a theological cemetery or Bible college and has ordination certificates from some other man-made organization doesn't mean he's truly ordained of God, and thus empowered by the Lord to teach TRUTH.

Eloquence, polish, glitter and shine in one's ability to provide an audience with his Aristotelian rhetoric "sermons" doesn't make Him a TRUE leader of biblical stature in the Church. He's simply a leader in the man-made organization that hired him. (shurg) So what? They're a penny a thousand.

Paul didn't minister as his "I-felt-led" career. He ministered because he was a minister through-and-through.

The word of God LIVES within us. His direction is superior to any and all weaknesses in translation.

I put down no Bible translation because almost all of them can be a tool to reach people in the Hands of the Most High. Those who want to follow after the false teachings of people like Ripplinger and her ilk can do so at their own risk. My love and trust is in the Lord above all else. I have 100% because I have the Spirit of the Lord within. No book I hold in my hand is 100%. The Bible was only meant to be the sign post in the road pointing the way to the TRUE Lord in a world filled with false ones. If one can't get past the Book in order to enter into a thriving relationship with the One of Whom it speaks, then that person has a problem.

The merely religious place their trust in a book put together by machines, wood fibers, leather and glue, thus placing the Lord in a place of lesser importance. I believe that's called "idolatry".

We should avoid such at all costs.

Otherwise, what's a restatement of your point?

BTW

 

[OzSpen]

You certainly stepped up to the plate as one who appears to have a lesser trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome difficulties in translations. If that's true, then:

What I see going on in your system of reasoning is that you're confusing the very word of God as being one and the same with modern/historic translations. The translations clearly disagree with one another at various points throughout, and one doesn't need a degree in theology to see that.

Even the King James translators admitted they didn't consider their translation the "best" translation. What matters most is that we receive our direction, first and foremost, the Spirit of the Lord (1 John 2:27) and from His truly ordained and empowered shepherds (for those in need of discipleship).

Just because some dude has a degree from a theological cemetery or Bible college and has ordination certificates from some other man-made organization doesn't mean he's truly ordained of God, and thus empowered by the Lord to teach TRUTH.

Eloquence, polish, glitter and shine in one's ability to provide an audience with his Aristotelian rhetoric "sermons" doesn't make Him a TRUE leader of biblical stature in the Church. He's simply a leader in the man-made organization that hired him. (shurg) So what? They're a penny a thousand.

Paul didn't minister as his "I-felt-led" career. He ministered because he was a minister through-and-through.

The word of God LIVES within us. His direction is superior to any and all weaknesses in translation.

I put down no Bible translation because almost all of them can be a tool to reach people in the Hands of the Most High. Those who want to follow after the false teachings of people like Ripplinger and her ilk can do so at their own risk. My love and trust is in the Lord above all else. I have 100% because I have the Spirit of the Lord within. No book I hold in my hand is 100%. The Bible was only meant to be the sign post in the road pointing the way to the TRUE Lord in a world filled with false ones. If one can't get past the Book in order to enter into a thriving relationship with the One of Whom it speaks, then that person has a problem.

The merely religious place their trust in a book put together by machines, wood fibers, leather and glue, thus placing the Lord in a place of lesser importance. I believe that's called "idolatry".

We should avoid such at all costs.

Otherwise, what's a restatement of your point?

BTW

Yep, I stepped up to the plate in knowing the difference between how to arrive at a reliable translation, based on the Greek text, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit to my heart.

Bible translation and Bible exegesis are hard work, and no subjective word of God to my heart can avoid that.

Oz