We should seriously consider any possible to help with Third Temple.

visionary · Feb 10, 2005

I use to have migraines until I went to a chiropractor.....so I understand. I am amazed that you can even look at a computer screen, since light would have been way too bright for me.

By the way, any time I feel a migraine coming on, I quickly go to the chiropractor and it gets headed off at the pass, which I must admit that since going, I have hardly any headaches anymore.

Pray on its way ... hope you feel better soon.

tate4242 · Feb 10, 2005

http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/restoration/?page=4&type=12
What Judaism Really Says About Joseph's Seed?

An interesting question must be asked at this point. Do the more modern traditional rabbis, or those from the last several hundred years, agree with the two-house conclusions of the former rabbis (CE 1000-1300)? Or, do they, like most modern Messianic Jewish rabbis, scream "replacement theology!" when presented with the scriptural and historical facts? Rabbi Zvi Kalisher in his book Am Habonim Smaycha said "Judah will first return to Israel and prepare the land, so that it will ultimately be able to support a great community. Then part of the lost ten tribes will return and together with the Jews build the Third Temple. Once the temple is rebuilt, the remainder and numerically greater part of the lost ten tribes WILL ALSO COME BACK, WHEN (SUFFERING) MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH APPEARS and reigns in Jerusalem. Then all Israel will hallow THE NAME of Elohim (Yahweh) and all will worship Him in one tongue-Hebrew!" Here is a traditional rabbi, who ties in the two-house restoration of Israel with the appearing of Messiah Ben Yosef , the suffering dying Messiah of Israel, coming to reign! If Yahshua is Messiah Ben Yosef, then both houses are being reunited by Him. The reunion commenced at His first appearing, with the ultimate accelerated phase to be gloriously completed at His reappearance in Jerusalem on clouds of glory!

I agree with Mr. Koniuchowsky's understanding that the lost tribes will return and help the Jews build the Third Temple, eventually. But Messiah Ben Yosef, is clearly not Yahshua/Jesus. Messiah Ben Yosef may very well be the last Elijah who prepares the way for the coming of Yahshua/Jesus, but there is really no way to fit all the predictions about Mashiach ben Yosef in with the second coming of Yahshua!!!!

"Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee?
Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the
Lord God.
Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in
pieces, and the glorious from their bed.
Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance.
Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee.
Who was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.
Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord,
to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of
Jacob."

(Ecclesiasticus 48:6-10).

This list of accomplishments for the last Elijah definitely fits the descritpion of what must be done by the messiah son of Joseph/Ephrayim, who will be anointed for warfare. Since Judaism predicts that the Messiah son of Joseph/Ephrayim will be stirred up by himself, and it is said that he is stirred up by Elijah, there is a possibility that the last Elijah and Messiah son of Joseph, is indeed the same person???

http://www.britam.org/messiah.html

The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah Kol HaTor says [2.71] Behold I will send you my prophet Elijahand he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH.....

Click to expand...

The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH comes from the north side and will be aroused by himself. i.e. The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH will come from somewhere in the north or at least to the north of the Land of Israel. The MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH will Defeat Esau meaning the forces of Europe. Kol HaTor says [2.17] The guardian angel of Esau will be pulled down by the guardian angel of Joseph (This is also spoken about in the Biblical Book of Obadiah.

(In this same article Mr. Davidiy mentions that the lost tribes accomplish a great deal in the end of days!!)

MALBIM on Micah 5;1: ".....It has already been clarified in Ezekiel 37, that in the End Time, the Ten Tribes will be the first to arouse themselves and over them will reign the Messiah [i.e. Anointed Saviour] Descendant of Joseph and they will accomplish great things.

The Tribe of Judah who are scattered amongst the nations [and are] weakly and few will attach themselves [unto the Ten Tribes]. They [i.e. the Tribe of Judah, the Jews] will be of secondary importance [at first] in the kingdom of the Anointed Descendant of Joseph. [This will continue] until later there will arise the Anointed Descendant of David in the Might of The LORD. At that time they will all [both Joseph and Judah] accept upon themselves the Kingship of the House of David. Then wars will cease for the Gentiles will request [guidance from] him [i.e. from the Messiah]...

He [the Prophet Micah] wants to describe the situation that will exist as long as the general ingathering will not be completed and all of the Exiled of Judah will still not be gathered together in the Land of Israel: Then, all that time, the House of Israel [meaning the Ten Tribes and the Anointed Descendant of Joseph who belongs to them] will be the principal party. They will be the warriors and the rulers. The House of Judah will be secondary [in importance] unto them. This was explained in Ezekiel [37;19]
BEHOLD , I WILL TAKE THE STICK OF JOSEPHI WILL TAKE THE STICK OF JOSEPHAND I WILL PUT UPON HIM THE STICK OF JUDAH, i.e. the Malbim understands the verse to say that the stick of Judah will be put on the stick of Joseph. The Malbim understands this to mean that Judah will be secondary to Joseph...."

IT IS CRITICAL TO REALIZE THAT THE PREDICTIONS OF WHAT WILL BE DONE BY THE MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH CANNOT FIT WITH THE SECOND COMING OF YAHSHUA/JESUS, BUT THEY CERTAINLY COULD FIT WITH THE WORK OF THE FINAL ELIJAH WHO YAHSHUA SAID WOULD RESTORE ALL THINGS.

[This will continue] until later there will arise the Anointed Descendant of David in the Might of The LORD.

Click to expand...

On the other hand this sentence, could fit perfectly with the return of Yahshua/Jesus referred to in Acts.
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven, (Acts 1:11).

But then again........

yod · Feb 10, 2005

I can't take anything by Konichowski seriously

visionary · Feb 12, 2005

"Dont you realize that the most powerful thing about this gospel is that it liberates us from the concept that God dwells in any building. For a people steeped in the rites of temple worship this was either great or terrible news. His followers thought it was great. No longer did they have to think of God as cloaked in the recesses of the temple, available only to special people at select times."

tate4242 · Feb 13, 2005

"Dont you realize that the most powerful thing about this gospel is that it liberates us from the concept that God dwells in any building. For a people steeped in the rites of temple worship this was either great or terrible news. His followers thought it was great. No longer did they have to think of God as cloaked in the recesses of the temple, available only to special people at select times."

Interesting, and yes I agree that this statement is the ultimate truth on this subject.

But how do I put this together with what surely seems like a literal temple in Ezekiel 40 - 48?

Some have taught that there are two millenniums? This idea is interesting too! Could the prophecy of Ezekiel 40 be delayed as long as 1000 years??

I have trouble accepting a delay of this duration! But I can't rule this out as a real possibility.

Yod, I can certainly understand why you may have trouble with Mr. Koniuchowsky, but he is the one who introduced me to many of these subjects. In my opinion I felt he was too dogmatic when it wasn't really necessary, but basically I felt that he was genuinely trying his best to serve Yahushua/Jesus! Dr. Koniuchowsky quotes various Jewish authors extensively, and personally, I was impressed how well he did this in the articles of his that I had the chance to read. (I often call a Messianic Teacher Dr. as opposed to Rabbi for obvious reasons. I don't mind calling a non-Messianic Rabbi, due to the way that the statement by Yahushua is worded).

Mikhail · Feb 14, 2005

tate4242 said:
Wow, it is especially impressive when we receive essentially the same message two time within such a short period of time.

Incidentally, I have been seriously considering running for office at the federal level here in Nova Scotia. I ran at the local municipal level last fall and you can read my primary campaign writing here:

If we test a prophecy simply on the apparent miracle of it coming from different sources then we can easily fall into the devil's trap.
Scripture is clear that even if a Prophet Prophesies and it comes to pass but he leads us away from Worshiping of YHVH then we are to have nothing to do with it. Personally I would feel a lot more comfortable with worshipping in a temple if he allowed them to rebuild it, than going into a nondenominational service that was full of the symbols of Sun God Worship.
After all the scriptures never condemned the beleivers in Yeshua from going to the Temple ever. In fact tradition says the Ya'Acov the brother of Yeshua went daily to pray in the temple. Saul went and worshipped there.
The issue is who are you worshipping and are you worshipping him as the scriptures declare.
Mikhail
"An ex Roman Catholic and now also an ex Roman Protestant/Pentacostal"

visionary · Feb 14, 2005

tate4242 said:
Interesting, and yes I agree that this statement is the ultimate truth on this subject.

But how do I put this together with what surely seems like a literal temple in Ezekiel 40 - 48?

I believe you are right there is a literal temple in Ezekiel? Question is: Is the one they are planning to construct IT? IF it is then will it not also fulfill the rest of the prophesies?

Ezekiel 8:16
And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Both prophesies talk about the temples are to be measured....

Ezekiel 40:10
And the little chambers of the gate eastward were three on this side, and three on that side; they three were of one measure: and the posts had one measure on this side and on that side.

Revelation 11:1
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Another point is no temple [is in a building] in the New Jerusalem.....

Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

I have a hard time with the millinium ....still trying to study on the subject...and get a better understanding....so millinium temple????

yod · Feb 14, 2005

Ezekial's Temple can not be the 3rd Temple (assuming that Israel would be building it soon)

It would have to be a Millennial Temple built by Messiah himself.

visionary · Feb 14, 2005

yod said:
Ezekial's Temple can not be the 3rd Temple (assuming that Israel would be building it soon)

It would have to be a Millennial Temple built by Messiah himself.

Is wishful hoping because of the way you want prophecies to go or do you have some inside info to bring light to what you are saying will not happen.

As far as I know...not saying that this is any deep study or conclusion...the jews who have dedicated themselves to building the temple also look to Ezekiel on the construction of it.

yod · Feb 14, 2005

Then why does Ezekial's Temple ignore Shavuot?

hmmm?????

maybe it's another thread? I don't have the answer either...but surely the Orthodox wouldn't skip Shavuot? Only Messiah could do away with that Feast, right?

Yahudim · Feb 15, 2005

There are some apparent paradoxes regarding the Temple of Ezekiel's prophecy. Here is an article that offers some insights: http://www.jewishmag.com/16mag/temple/temple.htm

I know that the Temple Institute has procured or made just about everything necessary for Temple worship. I believe I heard recently that the Arc of the Covenant has returned to Jerusalem from Ethiopia. The red heifers first bred in Texas are alive, well and multiplying in Israel. I would not be surprised if all of the stones and columns have been quarried and cut and all the beams, doors and hardware have been readied and warehoused. I know that money is not the issue. Jews worldwide contribute to this cause. The Sanhedrin has been populated. And wasn't there something about Israel negotiating with the Vatican for the return of the sacred vessels and furniture?

Let's not forget the political climate. I do not believe that this peace deal would go forward without a provision for Jewish worship on the Temple mount. I think that as soon as that word is given, that a pre-fabricated Temple would be erected on the Temple Mount in record time. It just make sense. Any deal without that provision would be political suicide for the party that sponsored it.

In short, I believe that our heavenly Father has everything under control and the stage is set for the final chapter of the redemption of the children of G-d! The Temple will be built by Jewish hands fulfilling the mitvah and they will be aided by the arrival of the true Temple (the Son) decending from heaven fulfilling prophecy.

At least this is how I see it...

tate4242 · Mar 5, 2005

Excellent Excellent post Talmidim! This is fascinating!!! Can I quote you??

By the way a friend of mine and my wife's is looking for help with translation from English to Hebrew. Here is a link into her latest writing:

http://www.almightywind.com/prophecy/proph77.htm

visionary · Mar 12, 2005

The Temple Institute will lnot be building according to Ezekiel's vision of the temple. They will be following along Solomon's design.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/future_temple.htm

tate4242 · Apr 12, 2005

=visionary]The Temple Institute will lnot be building according to Ezekiel's vision of the temple. They will be following along Solomon's design.

Just ran into a prophecy in one of the old books that the Third Temple will actually descend from heaven...

http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jcreeves/sefer_zerubbabel.htm

After all this (has taken place), Menahem b. Amiel will come, accompanied by Nehemiah b. Hushiel and all Israel. All of the dead will resurrect, and Elijah the prophet will be with them. They will come up to Jerusalem. In the month of Av, during which they formerly mourned for Nehemiah (and) for the destruction of Jerusalem, Israel will hold a great celebration and bring an offering to the Lord, which the Lord will accept on their behalf. "The offering of Israel will be pleasing to the Lord as it was formerly during her past history" (cf. Mal 3:4). The Lord will discern the pleasant aroma of His people Israel and greatly rejoice. Then the Lord will lower the celestial Temple which had been previously built to earth, and a column of fire and a cloud of smoke will rise to heaven. The Messiah with all of Israel following after him will then walk out to the gates of Jerusalem.

little_lily613 · May 2, 2005

tate4242 said:
In a telephone conversation several days ago a friend correctly pointed out that by helping the Jews in the building of the Third Temple we would be hastening the coming of the anti-Christ person

The Jews will not start the third Temple until the Moshiach comes. That is one of the prophecies that he is supposed to fulfill: to rebuild the Temple.

Shamash Of Yeshua · May 8, 2005

Reestablished Sanhedrin Convenes to Discuss Temple

Baruch HaShem,
May Our King return who is Appointed as Yosef was appointed and Moshe was appointed and all the Prophets since then were appointed. But HaMoshiach will establish His seat of government for this Earth in Israel then He will take out His Rod of Iron and Straigthen out all the wrong in this World gone wrong.

Tag

tate4242 · May 8, 2005

Shamash Of Yeshua said:
Reestablished Sanhedrin Convenes to Discuss Temple

Baruch HaShem,
May Our King return who is Appointed as Yosef was appointed and Moshe was appointed and all the Prophets since then were appointed. But HaMoshiach will establish His seat of government for this Earth in Israel then He will take out His Rod of Iron and Straigthen out all the wrong in this World gone wrong.

Tag

I am extremely impressed with the calibre of the comments that this thread is generating....over the past two years I have found this to be one of the most confusing subjects that I have ever gotten into....I am totally convinced that YAHUSHUA/Jesus is my sacrifice....the only really necessary sacrifice for all the earth....yet when I read prophecies about the Jews offering sacrifices for the entire millennial period.....we get into some pretty serious cognitive dissonance.....

I believe that we have much to learn from the historical King Cyrus....who was praised....not so much for becoming a full fledged convert to Judaism....but for desiring that all people freely worship as they choose to do so....

Will there be a modern Cyrus type? This statement about him rules out this being fulfilled by YAHUSHUA/Jesus:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; ....

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isaiah 45:1,4,5)

This Cyrus type in our time could easily be a nominal Christian who perhaps has studied so much about what is being revealed in our time period that he has became very confused....I can see this happening....It is a pretty interesting thing that the typical Moslem reports a similar near death experience to a practicing Christian??

http://www.near-death.com/muslim.html

My explanation for this happening could well be that many of us who attend a Christian church....have not yet began to obey the words of YAHUSHUA/Jesus to the extent that we really should be....and perhaps we fall into the same category as the majority of people....who will not be in the first resurrection to meet YAHUSHUA/Jesus in the air as He returns....

broad is the way that leads to destruction and many there be that go in thereat...narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be who find it.....

The Book of Enoch states that there are four places prepared for the dead...so perhaps the garden that so many people report seeing in their nde...is not exactly the same place as the dead in Christ have been taken to....the ones who will be in the first resurrection....the ones spoken of in Revelation 6:9-11

tate4242 · May 8, 2005

Could a real Mashiach ben Ephrayim/Yossef person live in our time period...somebody anointed for battle who will be killed by Armilos....Yair Davidiy adds that the modern Cyrus will serve this man.....or perhaps it simply means help...encourage???

According to many Jewish prophecies this person....I believe foreshadowed in this promise to the patriarch Joseph....will rebuild the Third Temple for the Orthodox Jews.....

But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty [God] of Jacob; (from thence [is] the shepherd, the stone of Israel (Genesis 49:24)

(We know that YAHUSHUA/Jesus was descended from Judah and Levi....so I have to take the following prophecy rather seriously as a possible fulfillment to this unusual verse about Joseph!

http://www.moshiach.com/discover/tutorials/moshiach_ben_yossef.php

Moshiach ben Yossef (Moshiach the descendant of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph), is also referred to as Moshiach ben Ephrayim, Moshiach the descendant of Ephraim. He will come first, before the final redeemer, and later will serve as his viceroy.
The essential task of Moshiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Moshiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Moshiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).

The principal and final function ascribed to Moshiach ben Yossef is of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel. More specifically, he will do battle against Edom, the descendants of Esau. Edom is the comprehensive designation of the enemies of Israel, and it will be crushed through the progeny of Joseph. Thus it was prophesied of old, The House of Jacob will be a fire and the House of Joseph a flame, and the House of Esau for stubble.. (Obadiah 1:18): the progeny of Esau shall be delivered only into the hands of the progeny of Joseph.

Click to expand...

Sephania · May 11, 2005

little_lily613 said:
The Jews will not start the third Temple until the Moshiach comes. That is one of the prophecies that he is supposed to fulfill: to rebuild the Temple.

This is what I am afraid of.

visionary · Aug 20, 2005

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=85556

Jewish Presence in the Land of Israel of Yesteryear
18:36 Jul 11, '05 / 4 Tammuz 5765
By IsraelNationalNews Staff

Dramatic findings from the First and Second Temple periods have been uncovered of late in Antiquities Authority digs in the Nachal Toot area.

Arutz-7s Kobi Finkler reports that the digs, taking place near Yokneam in the western Galilee, have revealed the existence of an impressive administrative center from the First Temple period, which ended some 2,500 years ago. In addition, remnants of dense housing in a Jewish village from the Second Temple period 2,000 years ago have been found. The Jewish village is thought to have been destroyed at the same time as the Temple, around the year 70 C.E.

The village was found relatively intact, with upright walls and their windows and openings in place. The buildings are clearly laid out around a central yard and a ritual bath (mikveh).

Among the artifacts found at the site are clay pottery, stone utensils and metal objects. Most notable was a Jewish signet with three bands. The signet features a light brown oval-shaped stone, a centimeter in width and a bit more in length. A hole pierced through its middle indicates that it was worn around the neck as a pendant.

On the top band is engraved four pomegranates, while old Hebrew writing can be seen on the lower two bands. The name Amichai [My People Lives] can be seen probably the father of the owner of the ring. The name of the owner himself, who was apparently a clerk in the administration, also appears to be written, spelled with the letters Lamed, Mem, Kuf, Aleph, Het.

Dr. David Amit of the Antiquities Authority, who was able to interpret the writing together with Dr. Esther Eshel of Bar Ilan University, said that the names Makah and Amichai, which are written on the ring, are new additions to the treasury of known names from early times. The importance of the ring lies in its contribution to our list of names, Dr. Amit said. In addition, this ring is unique in that it was found in an archaeological dig, and not from antiquities collectors.

The dig was carried out at the request of the Trans Israel Highway Company, which wants to continue Highway 6 - Israel's only toll road - northwards from its present route.

Another find from the dig includes several handles broken from jugs that were used to store food and liquid. The words for the king appear, as well as the names of the cities Hevron and Zif, which were important Judean administrative cities at the end of the First Temple period.

Click here for our free Daily News Report from Israel

Published: 18:22 July 11, 2005
Last Update: 18:36 July 11, 2005

We should seriously consider any possible to help with Third Temple.

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