We Could Be Wrong About It All

[Grubal Muruch]

Parables says---

Otherwise we will derail the topic. You haven't answered my question, which of the 38,000 different denominations is right?[/QUOTE]

Parables---Your answer is----The ones that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The ones that preach Gods salvation message of Grace through faith. The ones that trust totally in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. The ones that trust only in the Atonement,only in the Bible, only in the trinity (Father,Son,and Holy Spirit) The ones that preach that,salvation comes by faith and not works.

The ones that seek truth and not,heresy and false teaching. The ones that will not give praise to heretics such as Harold Camping. In short,any denomination that preaches,the gospel (Good News) of Gods salvation message,and is free of heresy and false teachings combined with numerology,wild imaginative interpretations,and free of megalomaniacal false prophets and those who are lead by Satan to destroy the church.

How's that for a starter!!!

 

[Manasseh_]

Lets stick to the topic at hand; eschatology. If anyone's interested in what I believe, not Harold Camping, email me at WilliamOliverDean@gmail.com

Otherwise we will derail the topic. You haven't answered my question, which of the 38,000 different denominations is right?

people are sticking to the topic of eschatology here.............and I'm not interested in what you believe because it's not scripture, yours is a false prophecy.................

So wrong that a lot of people are missing the trumpet being sounded.

May 21st, 2011 is Judgment Day.

you even posted your site in that reply on page 1 of this thread, at the top of this site is a count down clock ticking away until May 21st..................

I hope it has a reset button marked press in case of may 22nd

I too have a "prediction" that after may 21st you may come back to the forun but you won't be back here promoting the same doctrine.................hey, we only have about 3 weeks to wait


I hereby wager one large cheese pizza my prediction will come true........any takers ?

 

[visionary]

So on May 22nd, can I have your car?

-CryptoLutheran

It is best to get a sales receipt for a buck for the car May 2oth because the next day he will be gone... and then it will be too late.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

people are sticking to the topic of eschatology here.............and I'm not interested in what you believe because it's not scripture, yours is a false prophecy.................




you even posted your site in that reply on page 1 of this thread, at the top of this site is a count down clock ticking away until May 21st..................

I hope it has a reset button marked press in case of may 22nd

I too have a "prediction" that after may 21st you may come back to the forun but you won't be back here promoting the same doctrine.................hey, we only have about 3 weeks to wait


I hereby wager one large cheese pizza my prediction will come true........any takers ?

AMEN!!!!

 

[Manasseh_]

Otherwise we will derail the topic. You haven't answered my question, which of the 38,000 different denominations is right?

over the years I've seen this different denominations list grow from about 22,000 which now you have at 38,000...........I've repeatedly and kindly requested this "list" of denominations from those like you who claim so many different denominations

Are you the keeper of the denominations list?
May I request a copy (preferably in PDF format) from you ?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

over the years I've seen this different denominations list grow from about 22,000 which now you have at 38,000...........I've repeatedly and kindly requested this "list" of denominations from those like you who claim so many different denominations

Are you the keeper of the denominations list?
May I request a copy (preferably in PDF format) from you ?

Manasseh---He probably got the 38,000 number from Harold Campings calculations.

 

[Biblewriter]

If one feels like the end times talk is wrong, why not look into the Puritan explanation regarding to the end times. Just about everything they explained is backed up by other Scriptures. In other words, they cross reference the end times with the Old Testament. That leave all future events out. Big Difference ! Maybe one can try the Second Coming happened around 70 AD.

This is preterism, and is not allowed in this sub-forum, as it violates the Nicean Creed. This creed is also violated by the following statement:

After all, I could be wrong about Jesus too, maybe Jesus was not the Christ or maybe Jesus never did exist; perhaps Buddhists have things figured out, maybe Judaism is right, maybe I ought to be a Taoist or a Neo-Platonist or an atheist.

But aside from these, of the tens of thousands of denominations that actually exist, none of them are completely right, and many of them are completely wrong. It is a great mistake to believe anythng just because someone else, or a lot of others, believe it.

The only sound basis for any belief is scripture. And the moment we add our own interpretations to the exact words of scripture, we inject a possibility of error.

But end time prophesy is indeed an exceedingly important subject. It occupies a third of the word of God. (A fourth if you leave out the Psalms, but I am convinced that the Psalms are end time prophecy, so I say a third.) So if we leave out the study of end time prophecy, we are ignoring a full third of what God has to say to us.

In John 15:15 Jesus explicitly said that it was his intent to reveal his mind to his own, and in Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10 He explicitly said that He spoke in parables because this knowledge was only for believers, not for unbelievers. And Revelation 1:3 pronounces a blessing upon all the read and heed the words of this most important book. So it is serious error to claim that eschatology is not an important subject.

But eschatology should be studied reverently. This is not a place for speculation as to what such-and such might mean. If we start with a general study of the explicitly stated prophecies in the Bible, in places like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and Zechariah, and then go on the symbolic parts like Daniel and the Revelation, we can learn much and be greatly benefited.

 

[Parables]

Parables says---

Otherwise we will derail the topic. You haven't answered my question, which of the 38,000 different denominations is right?

Parables---Your answer is----The ones that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The ones that preach Gods salvation message of Grace through faith. The ones that trust totally in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. The ones that trust only in the Atonement,only in the Bible, only in the trinity (Father,Son,and Holy Spirit) The ones that preach that,salvation comes by faith and not works.

The ones that seek truth and not,heresy and false teaching. The ones that will not give praise to heretics such as Harold Camping. In short,any denomination that preaches,the gospel (Good News) of Gods salvation message,and is free of heresy and false teachings combined with numerology,wild imaginative interpretations,and free of megalomaniacal false prophets and those who are lead by Satan to destroy the church.

How's that for a starter!!![/quote]


That is a false Gospel of free-will salvation, I really suggest you harmonize Scripture; especially with Romans and Ephesians. Furthermore, how many times do you see the number seven, twelve or forty throughout the Bible? You really must put forth a sincere lack of effort while studying Scripture to exclude numbers.

You are essentially claiming peace and safety on May 21st. Watch and pray, friend.

over the years I've seen this different denominations list grow from about 22,000 which now you have at 38,000...........I've repeatedly and kindly requested this "list" of denominations from those like you who claim so many different denominations

The fact there's more than one is a big problem. Going to church does not mean you're part of the Body of Christ, which a lot of tares find it too hard to swallow.


Q+A :: List of Christian Denominations and Their Beliefs | churchrelevance.com

List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If anyone wants to discuss May 21st, fell free to email me at WilliamOliverDean@gmail.com

I don't mind studying Scripture with people here, but when a thread just attacks each other by name calling, screaming heretic, and pure mocking that is not befitting for a Christian, there's no point in continuing with the discussion. Thank you all for your time!

By the way OP: I believe the churches have it all wrong, as if it were designed that way...

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Biblewriter]

If anyone wants to discuss May 21st, fell free to email me at WilliamOliverDean@gmail.com

I don't mind studying Scripture with people here, but when a thread just attacks each other by name calling, screaming heretic, and pure mocking that is not befitting for a Christian, there's no point in continuing with the discussion.

I will be watching with interest to see what this group has to say on May 22.

Who wants to bet they will immediately come up with a new date that is absolutely certain, and provable from scripture?

The truth is that we do not even know with certainty what year our Savior was born or died, much less any other date from ancient history, unless it was referenced to an eclipse whose date can be calculated. So if we do not know the exact starting point, then we could not possibly now the ending point, even if we were able to determine how long a period would last.

But much more to the point, anyone who tries to calculate the date when our Lord will return shows, by that very fact, that he or she is not submissive to scripture. For we are specifically told that no one knows the day or the hour.

But we are also explicitly told that we would know when the day was approaching, and everyone who studies these things reverently knows that the time is near.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

PARABLES SAYS---


That is a false Gospel of free-will salvation, I really suggest you harmonize Scripture; especially with Romans and Ephesians. Furthermore, how many times do you see the number seven, twelve or forty throughout the Bible? You really must put forth a sincere lack of effort while studying Scripture to exclude numbers.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Parables---It indeed is,"A Gospel of free-will salvation." The reason for that is,it's Gods 'TRUE' Gospel. Your 100% correct in stating that part of your response. You adhere to the FALSE gospel of, "hyper-Calvinism."

My reason for,speaking out against Harold Camping is,"I desire to,call a spade,a spade." He TRULY is a heretic and false teacher. It does absolutely,no good to ARGUE Scriptures with the followers of this man.

Camping (and his followers) preach,"another gospel." He and his minions are,completely and utterly,"brainwashed and totally deluded." This man (Camping) is,I believe, "used of Satan" to, influence the minds of people who are not familiar,to the "Word of God." He DELUDES them so well, that they,believe everything he spouts.

It's like a,"spiritual virus," and once the victim has been "brainwashed," they go out,and spew their nonsense to anyone,(gullible enough) to listen. I reiterate,"theres NO sense in arguing with,Camping or his minions,they are under a strong delusion." May 22,2011,(might) help deliver,some of them from Campings hold,but I believe he will,"come up with some, "lame excuse" for,why the rapture didn't occur,and set another date. His most ardent followers will continue to BELIEVE. Awake,when it doesn't quake!!!

 

[heweeps]

The original post was good and to me, correct in many ways. I think we still see things as through a fog but I also believe that the fog is slowly lifting. date setting is wrong, but the fig leaf has appeared. IMO.

I do not see the doom and gloom in these predictions as a negative thing at all. Yes there is going to be much pain and terrible happenings but primarily I see that the Lord is coming back and we will be rid of war, and slavery, and rape, and murder, and all these other ils that plague mankind. A little fear in the heart of the unsaved is a good thing. Even Jesus preached "end times": Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

keith

 

[Manasseh_]

I don't mind studying Scripture with people here, but when a thread just attacks each other by name calling, screaming heretic, and pure mocking that is not befitting for a Christian, there's no point in continuing with the discussion. Thank you all for your time!

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

what is not befitting for a christian or anyone for that matter is to read specific teachings in scripture, ie, that only God the Father knows of the exact day and hour when he will perform his very will at the end

then certain people will not accept the fact that God's thoughts are not their own, that he has all authority to hide or to reveal certain knowledge at his will , so they defy God and his authority by proceeding, regardless of what scripture teaches, to set their own date / dates ...........having no real fear in the first place of God's warnings about how his written word belongs to him and it's not to be tampered with

heresy is not a 'bad' word, it simply means that some other opinion is given despite the established teaching , so what should we call it when God explicitly teaches that he retains certain information and chooses not to reveal it to anyone in his wisdom, then have someone still give their personal opinion which is in direct violation to what God teaches in his written word.........?

and now because your opinion which stands outside of scriptural teaching isn't accepted you want to play the part of the "persecuted" one who is ridiculed for no reason and you just can't understand why your opinion is treated in such a manner regardless of the fact that it's a clear contradiction to explicit scriptural teaching

what's very plain about it is the fact that the "discussion" didn't turn out like you wanted it to so you then suggest anyone still interested email you so you don't have to hear the disagreements against your date setting in the thread..............

btw, if I truly believed that may 21st was THE DAY I really wouldn't be spending time on a forum discussing the matter.............remember, the count down clock on the site you gave is clicking away the seconds.........tick tock tick tock

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Manasseh--Very good statement.

 

[Parables]

Let me ask everyone here a question: What's the point of reading eschatology?

 

[LastSeven]

I would say to debate various different viewpoints.

 

[Jazer]

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

“Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

We know now that this took place in 70 ad. This was a shaddow and a type of what would take place at the end of this age.

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

Some people believe the sign in the heaven will be the Apophis Asteroid on April 13 2029. This happens to coincide with the 2000 year anniversity of the Church. Although a little chunk of rock hardly seems like a "sign of the Son of Man".

 

[Manasseh_]

Let me ask everyone here a question: What's the point of reading eschatology?

No different than the rest of God's word that leads one to salvation, in this case if we should happen to be among the living when these things begin to transpire we won't be deceived, it won't OVERTAKE the children of light like it does the world, saints will have wisdom and understanding, just as many of Christ's parables taught that the servant doesn't know when his master returns he still does as his master has commanded and goes about doing his duty because he has faith that the master will return at one point and give him his reward.

now what's the motive behind your question, your reason that one should read and study eschatology ?

 

[Parables]

My reasoning is if you don't know an exact day when the second coming of Jesus Christ will come on, what's the point in studying it? If you are to live your life like every other day, not knowing, then there is not point in reading eschatology. Many conclude there is no need to read about end time events because of this very point.

 

[Manasseh_]

My reasoning is if you don't know an exact day when the second coming of Jesus Christ will come on, what's the point in studying it? If you are to live your life like every other day, not knowing, then there is not point in reading eschatology. Many conclude there is no need to read about end time events because of this very point.

Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

you talk like we're completely kept in the dark about the whole issue when in fact prophecy of the final end time is filled with numerous signs that will help us understand..........what greater prophet than the savior Christ who gave all kinds of signs of warning, his parable about man having the capability to know when different seasons begin and end , that we can have that same "sense" when given knowledge, wisdom and understanding of these end times.............

down through the years so many have after reading of this end time thought themselves to be the ones that will live through it, even Paul's letters in a few cases had to deal with those who thought they missed it.
I may not be allowed to live to the end times, what if it could still be another 50 or 60 years away, a lot of us won't be alive then, it could even be longer, and then again it could begin very soon

the whole point in God revealing what he has done and what he will do is the fact that the believer has faith that He will DO IT which will finally lead up the promise that Christ will return, will redeem and will rule

but to become frustrated that we don't know the exact time then defy God and say we do know anyway is not worshiping God in spirit and in truth, it's almost like a child throwing a tantrum, but I wanna know.......tell me..........tellll meeeee............tellllllll mmeeeeeee and if you refuse to tell me then I'll make something up................Daniel is a prime example of not knowing and he even got to see in dreams and visions what would happen, but he was told to live the rest of his life because God loved him and he would be a part of that kingdom he had seen come in visions.........he was confused to a certain point and didn't fully understand and never would the rest of his days..........but because he feared God and believed God he remained faithful

Hebrews 11 is another very good example and it mentions a number of patriarchs who never got to see in their lifetime the promises made to them but endured keeping faith in God that he would perform those promises even after they died..........many consider God as "slack" concerning his promises, they become impatient with God and because they think God delays and delays that he never will do what he foretells in prophecy, no faith, impatience leads to making their own doctrines but their impatience leads to deception

Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

there are dozens of verses about patience and being patient and because of time and space they all can't be listed here............date setters are the least patient............attempting to force prophecy in telling them and others there is a specified time now even if God won't tell us

that count down clock on your site also means there's still time to repent........................??

 

[Parables]

Manasseh---He's motive is clear.all that counts is,the "end of time issue," that Camping pushes.

Parables and his like are, brainwashed and deluded into,reasoning only on that issue. They aren't concerned with spreading the Gospel, because to them,there is no Gospel,ONLY Harold Campings interpretations.

What in the world are you talking about? Please, do not speak for me. Thank you.