We are not special

[Veratis]

I look at the size of the universe, 78 billion lightyears across (and thats just how far we can see. its actually bigger) and all the billions of galaxies within it. in our milky way alone there 500 million stars if not more.
i know that the probability of a planet having life on it is much smaller than a planet not having life but looking at the massiveness of our universe its absolutely impossible for me to think that we're alone, that we're special. if there is a God, I have difficulty believing He would waste so much time on an insignifcant group of self destructive organisms when there is an entire universe to take care of.
I look at the night sky and say to myself, there has to be soemthing more out there. This incredible existence of ours is beyond the simplistic view of one almighty being.

 

[Casstranquility]

looking at the massiveness of our universe its absolutely impossible for me to think that we're alone, that we're special.

Why do we have to be alone to be special? I suppose there is a saying "If everyone's special, then no one is special." It's not really true, everything in the universe is special, because each thing in the universe is unique. We are not special because we are alive, but because we are who we are. There will never be another you in the universe, you are special. Snowflakes will never be repeated, each one of them is special-even though there are a gazillion snowflakes.

if there is a God, I have difficulty believing He would waste so much time on an insignifcant group of self destructive organisms when there is an entire universe to take care of.

Does anyone really think that God isn't everywhere? God's not wasting time anywhere, God is everywhere, and there is no time to God.

I look at the night sky and say to myself, there has to be soemthing more out there. This incredible existence of ours is beyond the simplistic view of one almighty being.

Yes, there is something more out there! Why is One being simplistic? It must be amazing for one being to span the universe, and to span the multi-universe and to span the parallel universes...In my beliefs, God is the universe, the multi-universe, and the parallel universes. God is everything. He has to spend so much time among us because He is us. He spends just as much "time" among the other planets.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

I look at the size of the universe, 78 billion lightyears across (and thats just how far we can see. its actually bigger) and all the billions of galaxies within it. in our milky way alone there 500 million stars if not more.
i know that the probability of a planet having life on it is much smaller than a planet not having life but looking at the massiveness of our universe its absolutely impossible for me to think that we're alone, that we're special. if there is a God, I have difficulty believing He would waste so much time on an insignifcant group of self destructive organisms when there is an entire universe to take care of.
I look at the night sky and say to myself, there has to be soemthing more out there. This incredible existence of ours is beyond the simplistic view of one almighty being.

So? Such beliefs only transcribe the sadness of nihilism, since we have no purpose to the universe, we must create our own purpose to our self and our own kind....the only thing that matters is our kind. The only thing that matters is the individual me.

 

[CSMR]

I look at the size of the universe, 78 billion lightyears across (and thats just how far we can see. its actually bigger) and all the billions of galaxies within it. in our milky way alone there 500 million stars if not more.
i know that the probability of a planet having life on it is much smaller than a planet not having life but looking at the massiveness of our universe its absolutely impossible for me to think that we're alone, that we're special.

By being special, you mean that there is no other life, i.e. aliens?

if there is a God, I have difficulty believing He would waste so much time on an insignifcant group of self destructive organisms when there is an entire universe to take care of.

The main monothestic notions of God do not have God drawing on finite resources of time.
Compared with the following other thoughts why is yours more reasonable?:
-If there are laws of physics, I have difficulty believing they would waste so much time on an insignificant etc.
-If there is a universe, I have difficulty believing it would waste so much time containing an insignificant etc.

 

[Upisoft]

1. since we have no purpose to the universe, we must create our own purpose to our self and our own kind....
2. the only thing that matters is our kind. The only thing that matters is the individual me.

How exactly 2 follows from 1?

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

How exactly 2 follows from 1?

When i make a choice, i thus make it for all of man.

 

[Upisoft]

When i make a choice, i thus make it for all of man.

It doesn't sound like me. I still believe in 1 but 2 does not follow.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

It doesn't sound like me. I still believe in 1 but 2 does not follow.

When you make a choice, you make the choice for yourself...no other person can make the same standpoint decision then you...thus you make that decision for all of man. Since no other man can make the choice, or decision you have to make it for what you choose, and when you choose you choose for all of mankind. Its like being the diplomat to another country, you are the only one capable of making the choices and you thus are also making the decisions for your entire country and at the same time your own personal choice.

 

[Defcon]

When you make a choice, you make the choice for yourself...no other person can make the same standpoint decision then you...thus you make that decision for all of man. Since no other man can make the choice, or decision you have to make it for what you choose, and when you choose you choose for all of mankind. Its like being the diplomat to another country, you are the only one capable of making the choices and you thus are also making the decisions for your entire country and at the same time your own personal choice.

What if you with your friend who wants to steal a car. You decide that isn't the best idea and refuse. He goes ahead and steals it. This decision was made simultaneously - yet it appears from you description of us being 'diplomats' that all mankind has just decided to steal the car while at the same time all mankind chose not to steal the car. So which one actually made the decision for all mankind?

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

What if you with your friend who wants to steal a car. You decide that isn't the best idea and refuse. He goes ahead and steals it. This decision was made simultaneously - yet it appears from you description of us being 'diplomats' that all mankind has just decided to steal the car while at the same time all mankind chose not to steal the car. So which one actually made the decision for all mankind?

Hes the only person who made the decision...i cannot make the decision for him but better yet it reflects humanity all together considering he enacts something as he...a human would enact and thus reflecting himself as a human upon the world. "The future of man is man" through the actions of everyone are we defined as anything, his action is sadly, a negative one and then reflects negatively about us.

 

[Defcon]

Hes the only person who made the decision...i cannot make the decision for him but better yet it reflects humanity all together considering he enacts something as he...a human would enact and thus reflecting himself as a human upon the world. "The future of man is man" through the actions of everyone are we defined as anything, his action is sadly, a negative one and then reflects negatively about us.

Two questions:
1) Does your decision not make an impact on the world?
2) Why is his action considered "negative"?

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Two questions:
1) Does your decision not make an impact on the world?
2) Why is his action considered "negative"?

1. Of course, every impact creates the future...stealing the car may lead to the police chasing me in which i kill 20 people in an accident...or it may lead to me taking hostages at a restraunt....it is not set but every decision creates a possibility of consequential futures that are layed out among an infinate nothingness of possiblity. Every action i make affects me, all of man, and all of the world(socially and environmentally).
2.Its socially irresponsible(atleast to america) to steal a car. The affects of stealing a car can lead the deventing of happiness of another individual and thus his action has a negative affect on other individuals which should be avoided unless that individual has caused animosity towards the person stealing the car on a level equal to the stealing of the car to advent anger also.....but anger and malevolent actions are not always the way to go...but sometimes its the only way to get messages or ideas to the forefront and bring them to notoriety and notice to the masses.

 

[Aradia]

My mom says I'm speshul.

 

[elman]

I look at the size of the universe, 78 billion lightyears across (and thats just how far we can see. its actually bigger) and all the billions of galaxies within it. in our milky way alone there 500 million stars if not more.
i know that the probability of a planet having life on it is much smaller than a planet not having life but looking at the massiveness of our universe its absolutely impossible for me to think that we're alone, that we're special. if there is a God, I have difficulty believing He would waste so much time on an insignifcant group of self destructive organisms when there is an entire universe to take care of.
I look at the night sky and say to myself, there has to be soemthing more out there. This incredible existence of ours is beyond the simplistic view of one almighty being.

One of the writters of the Bible saw what you see and exclaimed, what is man that you are mindful of him? The existence of life on other planets does not mean there was no Creator. I doubt the Creator of all this has much trouble managing it. It is possible that all this exists for the very purpose of producing beings such as we can be, who respond to the gift of life with gratitude and love for all God's creatures. The scriptures use symbolism about the stars falling and the sun turning dark and the moon turning to the color of blood and I think perhaps one of the things being said is that the righteousness that we are able to create by being loving to each other is of universal and eternal significance to the Creator who is absolute and pure love.

 

[Defcon]

2.Its socially irresponsible(atleast to america) to steal a car.
The affects of stealing a car can lead the deventing of happiness of another individual and thus his action has a negative affect on other individuals

Couldn't you argue that the theif is deprived of happiness if he doesn't steal the car? Isnt' that a negative to the theif? Why do the 'feelings' count only toward the one who owns the car and not the one who has the ability to steal and doesnt'?

which should be avoided unless that individual has caused animosity towards the person stealing the car on a level equal to the stealing of the car to advent anger also.....but anger and malevolent actions are not always the way to go...but sometimes its the only way to get messages or ideas to the forefront and bring them to notoriety and notice to the masses.

Whoa, whoa, whoa - hold up a sec. Are you appealing to justice? According to your worldview, it's the 'survival of the fittest' - i.e. the fittest make the rules and flourish. Where does this concept have room for the weighing of fairness?

And by what basis is this to be restrained unless the conditions above are met? Your presupposing certain ethical behaviors - what authority defines these behaviors? It's obviously outside the realm of 'survival of the fittest'.

 

[g85]

Jesus (GOD) died for me. I AM special.

 

[The Nihilist]

So? Such beliefs only transcribe the sadness of nihilism, since we have no purpose to the universe, we must create our own purpose to our self and our own kind....the only thing that matters is our kind. The only thing that matters is the individual me.

Existence's position here is essentially correct. I have not followed the rest of the argument, mostly because I think Defcon is caught up in issues that are fundamentally not connected to what is at hand. Upisoft, this is more to you.
It is agreed that we have no purpose in terms of the universe, and also that we must create our own purpose. But this is already a contradiction. Let us rather say that all purpose is to be assigned in terms of us, because only we have the capacity to assign value. Everything that is good is good because it is good for us, not because it is good for something else. To say that a thing is good for the uinverse is nonsense, because the universe is utterly indifferent to anything that could happen to it.
It is in this sense that we are the only thing that matters. Moreover, this importance falls only to the individual, and not to another individual or a group of individuals, because it is the individual by himself who assigns value. Existence, you should not be arguing morals with Defcon, mostly because morality is arbitrary and does not follow from what we're dicussing. If you must, though, I'd stick to some kind of social contract theory. Arendt's discussion of the matter is most palatable, but I'm not sure how well it fits in with what I've said here.

 

[The Nihilist]

Jesus (GOD) died for me. I AM special.

I guess you're ok.

 

[elman]

Existence's position here is essentially correct. I have not followed the rest of the argument, mostly because I think Defcon is caught up in issues that are fundamentally not connected to what is at hand. Upisoft, this is more to you.
It is agreed that we have no purpose in terms of the universe, and also that we must create our own purpose. But this is already a contradiction. Let us rather say that all purpose is to be assigned in terms of us, because only we have the capacity to assign value. Everything that is good is good because it is good for us, not because it is good for something else. To say that a thing is good for the uinverse is nonsense, because the universe is utterly indifferent to anything that could happen to it.
It is in this sense that we are the only thing that matters. Moreover, this importance falls only to the individual, and not to another individual or a group of individuals, because it is the individual by himself who assigns value. Existence, you should not be arguing morals with Defcon, mostly because morality is arbitrary and does not follow from what we're dicussing. If you must, though, I'd stick to some kind of social contract theory. Arendt's discussion of the matter is most palatable, but I'm not sure how well it fits in with what I've said here.

If you are going to assign value, it is a mistake to assign yourself as valuable and others as not valuable.

 

[The Nihilist]

If you are going to assign value, it is a mistake to assign yourself as valuable and others as not valuable.

If I am the one assigning value, which your retort has already granted, then I have a status that others do not have. Moreover, you can't grant others the same value, but I don't want to tell you why. I want ExistencePreceedsEssence to tell you why, specifically in terms of the non-relational character of death.
I forgot how fun Being and Time is.