We are made perfect

[Silverlin]

The devil/evil is illusion. Devil/Evil; a lie; error; neither corporeality nor Mind; the opposite of Truth; a belief in sin, sickness, and death; the lust of flesh which saith 'I am life and intelligence in matter. There is more than one mind, for I am mind,'- a wicked mind, selfmade or created by man's perception, put into the opposite of God, termed matter, thence to reproduce a mortal universe, including man, not after the image and likeness of Spirit, but after its own image.
The temptation Jesus experienced was from evil which was a false sense of Truth, an illusion.

 

[theend0218]

Silverlin, your views sound a bit like those of a confused scientologist. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Silverlin]

theend0218- lol, thats why im not a scientologist.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Silverlin,

Well what i mean.....
In genesis chapter 1 God did not create evil and he made everything good, God made us in His image and likeness therefore God must be reflected by man, else man is not the image and likeness of God.
Evil is only real when we percieve ourself's seperate from God, this is impossible when you know the truth. God is all in all, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, where all space is filled with God evil is not. God is not apart of evil, then one must ask why is there evil? and where does it come from? It comes from the false perception that our creation was made with evil and good. Evil only has power when believing that it is apart of God and he's creation. Evil sadly is very real once truly believing it is, this belief can and will kill a man. If you believe so whole heartly about something it will manifest in your own perception. If we are to understand and example the truth, evil is no where to be seen. The best example was from Jesus who took away our sin/illusion/false perception of life by healing and ultimately letting himself die so he could be raised to show that death had know power over The Son of God. Are we not all the son's and daughter's of God? By practising what Jesus taught we come into closer harmony with God's perfectness.
"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" Jesus knew this "I and my Father are one" some misinterpret as Jesus calling himself God, but he is affirming is at-one-ment with God.
God's work is already done. It is only up to us to avail ourselves of God's work in order to receive His blessing and Glory.
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity{false perception} was found in thee"

If evil and the devil are ONLY perceptions of the mind then there would be no need for the "Lake of Fire", for it was created for Satan and his fallen angels, but which also the false prophet, death, hades, and unbelievers are going to be cast into.

Your theology is quite faulty. First you do not understand what it means to be "in the image of God". If you would read the appropriate passages in context, you would see it deals with the realm of authority, not looks, not feelings, not knowledge. Jesus was made a "little lower than the angels", in the "image and likeness of sinful man". Believe it or not, He was made in the image of Adam BEFORE the fall. Sin is a result of man having free will or free choice, it is NOT a created thing and it was Satan who FIRST sinned and fell and has desired to bring down all the rest of God's creation along with his journey to the Lake of Fire.

In response to Bill Wald: Man was NOT made "perfect", in fact I originally gave some Romans verses which indicate the condition of Adam and all mankind. God knew that once He gave man "free will", that man would sin and because of this, He prepared the "Holy Lamb of God" BEFORE the "foundations of the World" were laid to ensure that His creation would not go for naught. The best thing that can be said for Adam is that when God looked over ALL that He had created on the 6th day, it was "very good" NOT PERFECT.

Now once Adam fell, you may also want to consider:

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

You are saying that man WAS "as God is - in His image" right from the git-go, however, we now see a new status of man, one who would be MORE like God (?) in that he had knowledge of good and evil???

Do you see how your theology doesn't stack up against scripture?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Egghead]

Well what i mean.....
In genesis chapter 1 God did not create evil and he made everything good, God made us in His image and likeness therefore God must be reflected by man, else man is not the image and likeness of God.

Evil is only real when we percieve ourself's seperate from God, this is impossible when you know the truth. God is all in all, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, where all space is filled with God evil is not. God is not apart of evil, then one must ask why is there evil? and where does it come from? It comes from the false perception that our creation was made with evil and good.

Evil only has power when believing that it is apart of God and he's creation.
Evil sadly is very real once truly believing it is, this belief can and will kill a man.

If you believe so whole heartly about something it will manifest in your own perception. If we are to understand and example the truth, evil is no where to be seen. The best example was from Jesus who took away our sin/illusion/false perception of life by healing and ultimately letting himself die so he could be raised to show that death had know power over The Son of God. Are we not all the son's and daughter's of God? By practising what Jesus taught we come into closer harmony with God's perfectness.
"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" Jesus knew this "I and my Father are one" some misinterpret as Jesus calling himself God, but he is affirming is at-one-ment with God.
God's work is already done. It is only up to us to avail ourselves of God's work in order to receive His blessing and Glory.
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity{false perception} was found in thee"

I mean no offense to you at all friend, so please dont take this any other way than my simple observation.
The your thoughts are about as New Age as any Ive seen in my studies on the matter since 1985.

The New Ager usually believes similar to some philosophers that reality is only a perception....what we percieve.

I have news for you and them, Satan, and sin (disobedience) is alive and well on the late, great planet earth.

He is not a concept, nor an illusion.
Nor is sin and disobedience.

Creation was created good. It did not remain that way.
One third of the angels rebeled against God, then man fell as well.


this one ''sounds'' good, but is errant.

Are we not all the son's and daughter's of God? By practising what Jesus taught we come into closer harmony with God's perfectness.

Works, even copying those of Jesus' do not make us His sons and daughters.
Only by being born again of the Spirit, then maintaining that relationship are we His sons.

From what Im hearing it sounds like youve meshed some New Age philosophies with some Universalism.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

"So God made man in his own image, in the image of God created he him"
"be ye perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect"
We are made perfect and without sin. The belief that there is any power in death and evil will kill a man. The only seeming reality of evil is an illusion blinding us from seeing God's perfect creation.

That is Christian Science false doctrine.

Take it to the Unorthodox section.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I cannot agree that "the only seeming reality of evil is an illusion" - this concept cannot be rooted in biblical theology.

It's not based in biblical theology. It's classic Christian Science, from the false teachings of Mary Baker Eddy.

 

[£amb]

Lamb-
I did not say things are based on feelings. 'Things' are based on attitude, understanding/ knowing and exampling Truth.
The lady that is told her daughter is dead would be positive if she knew the truth.
God is the God of all comfort i agree and he will comfort those in need.
We do experience things other than positive 'feelings' but is only due to our lack of understanding of Truth.
If the lady knew that her daughter being the daughter of God could not die, she would have said "weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth...Maid arise"

Wait. I'm reading that if I experience other things other than positive feelings it's due to lack of of understanding of truth? So if I do not have a positive attitude and get angry, mourn, depressed, etc. then I lack understanding? And the mother should not weep for her daughter? In Genisis 23 Abraham's wife, Sarah, died and he mourned and weeped for her. Did he lack the understanding of truth for not having a positive attitude? Hmm...a righteous and faithful servant of God experiencing something other than a positive attitude. Can you back anything up with scripture. I'm a scripture kinda gal. If anybody is going to say something about what God wants from us, I would like scripture to go with it. If not...then it's just your thoughts and not biblical.

 

[Chief117]

The devil is evil, becuase evil itself is the devil. Jesus's temptations was illusion/devil trying to separate him from God. I accept the seeming realness of evil, but i do not accept it as truth or apart of God's creation.

Then you are in error, brother. Jesus was tempted by a physical being. We know also that Satan is real from other verses, such as these:

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon [Satan], and the dragon and his angels fough back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven....
~Revelations 12:7-8


12 Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come."
~Daniel 10:12-14

​

If evil, or more specifically the host of satan's army, is not real, then how could the angel's of the Lord be detained? The truth of the matter is that evil does exist. It is a thought long since discarded that God's omnipresence does not allow for the existence of evil. If that could be true, there would be no room for people or the universe either, for God would be taking up all of the space.

God Bless.

 

[Silverlin]

wow thanks everyone for your respones im very grateful to have this thoughtful disscussion. I would just like to know though, how do you guys interpret this saying by Jesus
"be ye perfect, even as my father which is in heaven is perfect"?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

wow thanks everyone for your respones im very grateful to have this thoughtful disscussion. I would just like to know though, how do you guys interpret this saying by Jesus
"be ye perfect, even as my father which is in heaven is perfect"?

Actually, it's "be ye holy as My Father in heaven is holy"

Holy means to be "distinct" or "seperate" in a unique manner.

Which is why Christians are called "a peciliar people", meaning that Christians are distinctly different from the world.

By the way, the word that is translated as "perfect", does not mean "perfect" in the sense we understand it today, which is to be without any flaw.

What the word means is....."whole", or "mature".

 

[Silverlin]

But whole or mature in what?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

But whole or mature in what?

In Christ.

How long have you been into Christian Science?

 

[Silverlin]

I have looked at it yes and i study anything that is thought provoking, the one thing that amazes me in christian science is all there historys of healing, i have not come across another religion with over a hundred and 125yrs of healing.
But back to topic
So if we are whole in Christ/God then how can we sin? I know it is possible to sin if you are not whole in christ, but what if you are?

 

[Antman_05]

Gal 5:17 (ESV) For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

This is why we still sin as we are still trying to fight off the fleshly nature, we won't stop sinning as soon as we become born again, because its a thing that needs to take time. To be able to live and not sin is somthing we should strive to do.

Phi 3:12 (ESV) Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Silverlin]

Thank you, it does answer my Question very well.
Spirit is not in the Flesh. If anyone is to believe Spirit is in the flesh they would be wrong as you have pointed out. So if we are to be at-one with the Father we have to acknowledge that the concept of matter/flesh is not in God, only in our perception of Life. The understanding and example of at one ment with God is a work of eternity.
God is omnipresence "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." In God there is no sin. We are made perfect/whole in Christ.
Thank you for your responses

 

[Antman_05]

(Joh 1:1 ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Joh 1:14 ESV) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(Jam 2:26 ESV) For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

[Silverlin]

Thank you for your verses of the Truth. I couldnt agree more

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I have looked at it yes and i study anything that is thought provoking, the one thing that amazes me in christian science is all there historys of healing, i have not come across another religion with over a hundred and 125yrs of healing.

Christian Science makes many claims of "healings". However, those are anectdotal claims and when inspected closely, come up short.

They have a proven track record of having people die or become worse in sickness and injury left untreated.

I can cite many documented cases, which CS cannot do for it's claims of "healing".

But back to topic
So if we are whole in Christ/God then how can we sin? I know it is possible to sin if you are not whole in christ, but what if you are?

Christ has made His sheep whole, from a positional viewpoint in the eyes of God. Christ's perfection is accredited to the account of His sheep, even though while still in their earthly bodies, are still corrupted by sin.

Your question is one of soteriology, which is a 50 cent word that means, method or means of salvation.

Christ came to reverse the curse of sin and death that Adam brought into the world through his rebellion(win) against God in the Garden of Eden.

The Righteousness of Christ is applied to the believer, while Christ bore the punishment for our sins in His body on the Cross.

The Redemption that Christ came to perform will be fully manifested when He returns to gather His sheep to Him, and they are given a new resurrected body that is free of any sin nature as our bodies have now.

 

[Silverlin]

I totally agree!!
But about the Christian science there may be many claims that 'Fall short' but many that dont that i find hard to disregard. I do know what your talking about with people refusing medical treatment and ignoring problems in the name of Christian science, but from what i know this is not to be what christian science teaches. I actually have meet someone who had chronic fatigue sydrome for ten years, the medical profession wasnt able to heal her, but the correct understanding of the bible was, after studying the bible with christian science over a process of about a year, she made a full recovery and was healed of her disease. Now this person isnt a member of christian science and has little to do with the church but she has said that it helped her understand the bible to the point where she was able to be healed. The christian science book isnt needed but cant be denied that it doesnt open some sort of understanding/truth for people to be healed.