Aside from Melethiel's link on Augustine, Creationists disproved the global flood 200 years ago, before Darwin ever came on the scene.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Aside from Melethiel's link on Augustine, Creationists disproved the global flood 200 years ago, before Darwin ever came on the scene.Oh, what documents prior to this generation states that did not believe the Earth was created in 6 days ? Because 80 years ago there was no doubts to the creation story, the doubts only arised when scientist were able to ( so they say ) accurately age things. So i am curious to read what document prior to 80 years ago said or even implied that Genesis did not happen exactly as it says it did? Please educate me.
In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^
This is just as difficult to defend as Dave's view. You are aware that civilization has existed longer than 6,000 years right? In fact, the pre-dynastic Egyptians i believe existed earlier than that. The pinnacle of Ancient Egypt - the Pyramids of Giza were being built in the middle of the supposed Global flood.Just for clarification, not all "Creationist" who believe in the Word of God as true and inerrant interpret Genesis 1 as you apparently do.
I believe a more correct translation of the original "scripture", without the bias of the YEC doctrine, reveals that the universe and the planet (foundations covered with waters) existed prior to the events of the 6 days which started with "light".
The ONLY way to have it say anything else is to add words to passages like Gen. 1:16 and Exodus 20:11 to make them say something different than they do.
I too believe that scripture tells us that the events of the creation week happened some 6,000 years ago, but that shouldn't be joined with the creation of the universe or the primitive planet.
It would be correct to contend that scripture says God created all the original biology and brought forth land from below the waters some 6,000 years ago, but to associate that with the universe is going to create some problems for you, both scripturally and by general revelation.
You've just claimed that everything you've said is true because everything you've said is given directly by God. Perhaps we should save your writings and compile them as an addition to the canon! After all, since what you write is not your words but God's, it would be almost blasphemous NOT to include your writing in the Bible!He would prevent me from teaching things that were not from Him, and i teach these things in His Name, for at the end of each post i say In His Holy and precious Name, Jesus Christ.
Nonsense, you're trying to play semantical games and redefining the term "interpretation" in order to define your interpretation as correct. The very assertion that Genesis 1 is factually accurate is itself an interpretation by definition. Your circular hermeneutic of "I'm not interpreting, I just know" is a great argument... as long as you only talk to those who agree with you. That this assertion has no logical or factual basis is quite evident.Well let me address one thing here, i believe Genesis 1 is in need of no interpretation, mine, yours or theirs. i believe what it says, therefore it is not my interpretations, but i merely beleive it. IF Genesis says He created the Earth in 6 days, i believe that, not intepreting that, i believe it, because that is what it says, no interpretation needed.
By the same standard of "I just believe the scriptures" Jesus is a loaf of bread and a door. Your standard of "I just know what the Bible says" is utterly useless and extremely dangerous because it forces you to refuse any competing interpretation. Honestly, if the Holy Spirit came to you today and told you that your interpretation of Genesis 1 was incorrect, you would ignore the Holy Spirit himself assuming that since the Holy Spirit disagrees with your interpretation, the Holy Spirit must be demonic. A very dangerous position to be in indeed!You do well in saying " I believe " and all of us have a right to believe whatsoever we will believe, and i choose to beleive Scriptures, and they clearly teach that God created the Earth in 6 days, and notice i am only discussing the Earth, and not the Universe.
This is just as difficult to defend as Dave's view. You are aware that civilization has existed longer than 6,000 years right? In fact, the pre-dynastic Egyptians i believe existed earlier than that. The pinnacle of Ancient Egypt - the Pyramids of Giza were being built in the middle of the supposed Global flood.
Now we know, Wine the longer it is aged the better it will taste. So then the older that it is, the better it is.
... Now then here is the Question, if Jesus can instantly make wine that is OLD, that is to say well AGED. How is it a great thing that God can create the EArth and all things thereon in 6 days, that in every way appears to be old and aged, yet are days old?
Jesus in a matter of seconds created a wine that was seconds old, but in every way tasted as AGED wine.
Scriptures teach the Earth was created in 6 days, you either believe God or you believe men. It is that simple.
Thanks, but because my words are aledgedly perfect only if I invoke his name myself, I went back and fixed it myself. I really don't run into many people who think that you must invoke the name of Christ at the end of everything you write or you risk somehow being wrong. It seems to stem from a rather poor reading of scriptures that talk about the "name of the Lord." In fact, in the Hebrew culture of the time, the "name of the Lord" was not referring to the written or spoken name, but to the very essence and person of God himself. Certain groups have since used it to claim that everything must have "in Christ's name" tacked onto the end to be holy.You forgot the name itself, Deamiter. Fixed it for you.
Oh, what documents prior to this generation states that did not believe the Earth was created in 6 days ? Because 80 years ago there was no doubts to the creation story, the doubts only arised when scientist were able to ( so they say ) accurately age things.
Tell me, who says civilizations existed longer then 6000 years ago ? Scientists ?
who says the pyramids of Giza were being built in the middle of the supposed global flood ? Scientists ?
Tell you what, i choose to believe God, you can believe men.
DiscipleDave, I've only been alive for a couple of decades, but in that time I've prayerfully studied scriptures and been lead by hard study and by the Holy Spirit to an understanding of scripture that is consistant with God's revelation in creation. And yet my God-given understanding is different from yours.
You claim that God would shut you up if you preached something that was not from him -- why then did God not shut up a single one of his followers who preached geocentrism or even a flat earth? Do you claim that every single person who preached geocentrism on Biblical grounds was not lead to their understanding by God?
You've just claimed that everything you've said is true because everything you've said is given directly by God. Perhaps we should save your writings and compile them as an addition to the canon! After all, since what you write is not your words but God's, it would be almost blasphemous NOT to include your writing in the Bible!
It's been quite a long while since I've corresponded with somebody who ascribed to the mystical Christianity that claims that when you use certain words or phrases, God gives you extra special power.
I guess I wouldn't normally claim that it's evidence of my being right, but I do routinely ask God to teach me and lead me to change my understanding if it is in any way incorrect.
It seems that you're well past the point of correction and believe you have a perfect understanding of God and scripture.
Maybe the Holy Spirit has indeed made your understanding perfect on all spiritual matters... or perhaps you have closed your mind to the truth by resting in the security that once you've decided you have all the answers, you can reject even the teaching of the Holy Spirit because if it conflicts with your current understanding, you know it must not be of Christ.
Just to play along and invoke those magical words that 'prove' you're right (because as you claim, God would silence you if you invoke his name in error):
In His precious and holy name, Jesus Christ.
Deamiter
Um, everyone? There is written record of civilization going back farther than that.Tell me, who says civilizations existed longer then 6000 years ago ? Scientists ?
The Egyptian pyramids were built over a period of almost 1000 years, starting around 2900 B.C. According to YECs, the flood would have been what, about 2300 B.C.? The Egyptian pyramids weren't finished until after that date. We have written records from the Egyptians, as well as radiometric dating.who says the pyramids of Giza were being built in the middle of the supposed global flood ? Scientists ?
Dave, please show me where in the Bible it says the Earth is 6,000 years old. The truth is it doesn't. You obtained that date based on MAN'S interpretation of the geneological records listed in the Bible. One man came up with the 6,000 year old claim, not the Bible. Man also translated and interpreted the Bible. The fact that you don't grasp the concept that when you read the Bible, you are automatically interpreting it, is rather disturbing. The Bible was written in ancient Hebrew and Greek. They do not always translate accurately into English. A verse in Hebrew could lead to a difference in meaning when translated into English. There is no such thing as a perfect translation.Tell you what, i choose to believe God, you can believe men.
The Bible never says the Earth was created in 6 24 hour days. You are trusting man if you believe such is the case.Do you believe the Earth was created in 6 days, like Scriptures says it was, Yes or no ? If then you say Yes, then you believe God, if then you say No, because of your much learning, then you do not believe God, but believe your learnings. The Bible teaches that God created the Earth in 6 days, what do you teach ???? children can tell you how many days it took God to create the Earth, but leave it to the Learned and the Wise, to think otherwise.
Geocentrism means the Earth is the center of the universe. And yes, a literal interpretation of the Bible teaches both geocentrism and a flat Earth. How dare you question the unfailing Word of God on such matters!i know nothing about what this geocentrism is or even means, but as to the flat Earth, no person taught by the Holy Ghost would teach that it was flat, it clearly is not flat, and the Scriptures does not teach that it is flat.
I find it amazing that you have some supernatural, flawless link to God that no other human has been blessed with, and therefore you can never be wrong. Must be nice to be perfect Dave.i know not what these mystical words or phrases that you are talking about, i only know what He has told me, and that is all.
Why is True always capitalized? Forgive me if you just aren't a native English speaker, but all your posts seem to be written as though you are trying to act like an Apostle from the 1st century.If this were True, then you would hear me, and understand, and know that what i say is True.
No one has perfect understanding of scripture.So then if i do have perfect understanding of Scriptures, it is not because of anything that i have done, but all because what He has revealed unto me, this is the only reason that i would have perfect understanding of Scriptures.
Wow, all you have to do is ask him, and he will provide all of life's difficult questions for you? And Dave, since you hate science so much, why are you typing on a computer? A computer was built by scientists using the same method that disproved a 6,000 year old Earth.i am certain i have not all the answer, for there are many things that i did not ask,Him when i had the opportunity to ask Him, but what i know is suffecient enough to show people the narrow and difficult path that leads to righteousness, and this is the only thing that matters. Believing Scriptures is another thing that is important, if you do not believe one part of Scriptures, and that is accepted, then other parts can not be believed as well. How many people turned away from the Faith because of Scientists and what they teach, they have altogether lost Faith that Scriptures is True, based on what Scientists say is evidence. No, you have not turned away, but many have altogether turned away from the Faith because of that.
So now you are going to trot out the "conspiracy" theory and say all "scientists" get it wrong?
The data says there were civilizations in India and Asia more than 6,000 years ago.
Actually, the pyramids of Giza are after the time of the (non-existant) Flood.
But the Egyptians left a written record (cut in stone and in papyri) of the lengths of the reigns of pharoahs from Cleopatra on back. All you have to do is go back in that record and you see that the Egyptians have a flourishing civiliazation that goes right thru the time of the Flood. If you learn to read the heiroglyphics, you can do the counting for yourself. The data is public knowledge.
That's the fallacy, Dave. You don't believe God. Instead, you believe men who say that scriptures should be read literally. And these men, and you, are denying God. Remember, God has 2 books. Creation is more God's book than scripture. Men had to write the scriptures, but men didn't write Creation.
I am defending what scripture says and what I believe while not getting into the "proofs" that you are illustrating.This is just as difficult to defend as Dave's view. You are aware that civilization has existed longer than 6,000 years right? In fact, the pre-dynastic Egyptians i believe existed earlier than that. The pinnacle of Ancient Egypt - the Pyramids of Giza were being built in the middle of the supposed Global flood.
I find it amazing that you have some supernatural, flawless link to God that no other human has been blessed with, and therefore you can never be wrong. Must be nice to be perfect Dave.
DiscipleDave said >>>i know not what these mystical words or phrases that you are talking about, i only know what He has told me, and that is all. <<<
Why is True always capitalized? Forgive me if you just aren't a native English speaker, but all your posts seem to be written as though you are trying to act like an Apostle from the 1st century.
No one has perfect understanding of scripture.
Wow, all you have to do is ask him, and he will provide all of life's difficult questions for you?
And Dave, since you hate science so much, why are you typing on a computer? A computer was built by scientists using the same method that disproved a 6,000 year old Earth.
Does Scriptures teach that God created the Earth in 6 days? yes or no?
Yes Scriptures do teach that He created the EArth in six days, this is Factual and is True, even to the point, that He tells us what He created on which particular Day.
Now Scientist teach the Earth is billions of years old, they teach this based on evidence that they SEE.
This is easy, i believe God and what He says. Tell me, if you are able to do so, When Jesus created many fish from a few fishes, how old were those fishes ?????
False assumption -- scripture does not say that the Earth was created in six days any more than it says Jesus was a vine.Do you believe the Earth was created in 6 days, like Scriptures says it was, Yes or no ?
Funny how your interpretation of scripture is always presented as "what God believes." It's really too bad you're been sorely misinformed as to the meaning of "interpretation." Here's a hint -- when you recognize that Jesus is not actually a vine, you are interpreting scripture. Heck, even claiming that the Bible says the Earth was created in six days is interpreting scripture by definition. It really would be interesting to know if your first language is English, because you're misusing words like this and your lexical structure is outdated by a few centuries. It'd just help to know whether you're trying to copy some old translation of the Bible or if you're not a native speaker or what.If then you say Yes, then you believe God, if then you say No, because of your much learning, then you do not believe God, but believe your learnings. The Bible teaches that God created the Earth in 6 days, what do you teach ???? children can tell you how many days it took God to create the Earth, but leave it to the Learned and the Wise, to think otherwise.
Are you serious? Have you studied Martin Luther or Calvin or perhaps even a non-theologian like, oh say Copernicus? Have you heard of these people? Geocentrism was taught by the church for over a millenium after Jesus came and was assumed by the Hebrew authors -- it's hardly some random doctrine to be skipped over in a historical understanding of Christianity!i know nothing about what this geocentrism is or even means, but as to the flat Earth, no person taught by the Holy Ghost would teach that it was flat, it clearly is not flat, and the Scriptures does not teach that it is flat.
Well, your teaching certainly isn't unique, but to interpret scripture as you have is far from the truth. Also, unless you're German, you really don't have to capitalize every noun... and I don't have a clue where all those other capitals would come from. It'd be a whole lot easier to read if you'd write in conventional English.my writings are no different then that which is already written, therefore what i teach need not be added to the SCriptures. i teach the Earth was created in 6 days, and Lo Scriptures does too. why then would i need to add to SCriptures by saying that God created the Earth in 6 days, when Scriptures already says that. What i teach, and all that i teach, can be found in Scriptures, therefore i am teaching nothing New, but only teaching what Scriptures already say. If then i teach True Christians should not knowingly and willingly obey satan and commit sin, is that NEW, or does all of Scriptures teach that also. If then i taught something that is NEW, that is to say, not in SCriptures, then Yes that New thing, should be added, but i do not teach anything NEW, yet i know NEW things, that even Scriptures do not reveal, because He told me, Yet i do not teach on those matters, for they are NEW. Scriptures teach God created the Earth in 6 days, this i teach also, this is not NEW, but is Scriptural.
It's pure Gnosticism brother -- you've claimed directly that because you use the phrase "In his precious and holy name, Jesus Christ" your words are perfect and you cannot be wrong. In case you haven't heard of this (another part of historical Christianity) it was a bit of a fringe group that held that God would give out special knowledge to those who followed him that was unattainable to others. It was soundly crushed as a heresy though it pops up now and again in various forms.i know not what these mystical words or phrases that you are talking about, i only know what He has told me, and that is all.
How humble -- if I were right then I would agree with you because you cannot be wrong... If you were speaking truth, then you would hear me and understand and agree that what I say is true.If this were True, then you would hear me, and understand, and know that what i say is True.
Of course, I believe all of scriptures, I just don't accept your failed interpretation of scriptures. I believe all of scripture and that all of it is true as well, but you've apparently latched onto a fallable human interpretation that says Genesis 1 means 6 literal days and there you have erred gravely.i am certain i have not all the answer, for there are many things that i did not ask,Him when i had the opportunity to ask Him, but what i know is suffecient enough to show people the narrow and difficult path that leads to righteousness, and this is the only thing that matters. Believing Scriptures is another thing that is important, if you do not believe one part of Scriptures, and that is accepted, then other parts can not be believed as well.
Again, by denying God's revelation in creation, you drive people away from Christ. As St. Augustine said hundreds of years ago,How many people turned away from the Faith because of Scientists and what they teach, they have altogether lost Faith that Scriptures is True, based on what Scientists say is evidence. No, you have not turned away, but many have altogether turned away from the Faith because of that.
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.... Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by these who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.
Ah, but now you're twisting my words. I believe the Genesis account of creation is 100% true. It is simply not factual. It's just like saying, "Jesus is the vine" is true and not factual. It's really not a very difficult concept here.How can one teach the Bible is True and are the Words of God, yet say Genesis account of the creation of the Earth is untrue, without seeming to be a Hypocrite.
Did you seriously just say "lo?" Anyway, it's funny how God has told me the same thing! Except that God doesn't tell me to ignore his creation -- neither in the Bible nor in my daily communing with him. Funny how you seem to have latched onto such unbiblical ideas that were spoken against hundreds of years ago (i.e. by Augustine above). I suppose its your blind faith in your own understanding of scripture -- it is sad to see people so badly misrepresent scripture and to claim to be infallable in interpretation, but there's always SOMEBODY out there doing it.Are the Words of God True or not, if then any part of the Words of God is NOT TRUE, then all of it is not True, it is false and should be counted as a false doctrine,
... <snipped rant based on the assumption that true equals factual> ...
i asked Jesus one time " Who will believe me? " He then told me, it is not for me to convince anyone of the Truth, but merely to teach the Truth, and by so doing, they who believe not the Truth will not have a cloke to hide their sins. Therefore i need not prove anything, nor is this my desire, but to teach the Truth that he taught me, this i do, and He is pleased.
i teach the Truth, those who hear me, will not be able to stand before Jesus on Judgement Day and plead in ignorance that they did not know, for lo i have told them the Truth, and they have rejected it.
The Egyptian pyramids were built over a period of almost 1000 years, starting around 2900 B.C. According to YECs, the flood would have been what, about 2300 B.C.? The Egyptian pyramids weren't finished until after that date. We have written records from the Egyptians, as well as radiometric dating.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?