Watchman v. Prophet

Matjohluk said:

Interesting man and site.

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Prophets & Seers | Seated - The Prophetic/Teaching Ministry of Brad Hocutt

That was similar to what I saw… the new thing the Lord is doing is actually the old thing, we will be coming together, not in buildings for denominations but in the Spirit whatever our denomination. Not like house church movement but a 'whole church movement'… there will be many who will fall away bc of fear, but those who come forward together will be empowered to work His will.

This would explain to me why the theological debates, they are planting seeds of doubt about other believers and there will be great fear that one could be in a false ministry but they do not realize that we are all 'one in Him', those of us with the truth and those seeking the truth… we must be willing to forego our own desires and be willing to come together in Christ. Laying aside the pride of our heads and following our love for Christ…. no man will lead this movement it will come of its own… I hesitate to think of what could preclude something of this magnitude….

just saying'…. andrea

lismore said:

By and large yes but there are exceptions.

I met a guy who was given the boot from his church because he refused to accept their stance on two men getting married.

How can he be corporate or silent in that instance, if the church is marrying two woofters?

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well I understand this .. of my last three pastors two died of aids and one was caught adultery, not confessed to adultery . was caught.

Now truth is I'm just gun shy, gun shy! these men will not and can not lead me or mine any place I ever want to go..
I/we want to part of the answer, the real answers .. if that means praying HIM( the Lord) and His truth and his spirit into man's reality, then I will do that! mostly what I am doing hopefully is raising a generation of real men who love God only and understand the fight and what "submitting yourself one to another " really means, and what it looks like .. . at least I'm giving it a run..

I am to old and tired of following the unqualified, who pretend to be qualified. who just pretend to be "over come"rs. and they get by with it because they don't want people in their churches who can read their mail. so no one in the church does it or wants to either.

Just because "Jesus forgives me.. " doesn't mean they are qualified any longer to lead anyone.
I love them, I forgive them , I pray god forgives them ....
BUT NO I don't have to follow any of that !

we feel for now that we have been released from the craziness. maybe time to heal and time to pray!
maybe something new is on the horizon.
and I plan and my hope is to pray it in..

Hi Andrea,
The word says prove things. There is a ton of phoney baloney things going on. Christ said many false annointings would be on the scene.

NannaNae said:

well I understand this .. of my last three pastors two died of aids and one was caught adultery, not confessed to adultery . was caught.

Now truth is I'm just gun shy, gun shy! these men will not and can not lead me or mine any place I ever want to go..
I/we want to part of the answer, the real answers .. if that means praying HIM( the Lord) and His truth and his spirit into man's reality, then I will do that! mostly what I am doing hopefully is raising a generation of real men who love God only and understand the fight and what "submitting yourself one to another " really means, and what it looks like .. . at least I'm giving it a run..

I am to old and tired of following the unqualified, who pretend to be qualified. who just pretend to be "over come"rs. and they get by with it because they don't want people in their churches who can read their mail. so no one in the church does it or wants to either.

Just because "Jesus forgives me.. " doesn't mean they are qualified any longer to lead anyone.
I love them, I forgive them , I pray god forgives them ....
BUT NO I don't have to follow any of that !

we feel for now that we have been released from the craziness. maybe time to heal and time to pray!
maybe something new is on the horizon.
and I play to pray it in..

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so sorry, it can be so difficult to see so much corruption in His church. Went through a few church splits in my time too. They were heartbreaking… recently saw two churches dissolve bc of adultery…. so sad… I keep wondering if they think of the spiritual implications while they're playing around. Do they realize that it could effect people's eternities…. ? Truly Sad.
Praying you find a good home church. I'm in between churches. Have good fellowship just not under a ministry. I am praying the Lord direct myself and my husband together into a ministry….
God bless, andrea

lismore said:

In a related manner, I see shepherds watching their flocks by night, disciples being told to keep watch and pray and a cry going up at midnight when the bridegroom cometh.

All these were watching, and they were men.

‘Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour'

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Yeah, and that kind of goes back to the watchman being more of an appointment than an office as prophet would be. One could be both, like Ezekiel, neither, or either one.

But as such, when you read their duties in the OT, to watch for approaching evil as well as watch for approaching judgments of God, then if they see, they are to give the warning. Since we are told to much of the same thing, it seems more reasonable to conclude that we all have duties as watchmen.

turned around said:

Hi Andrea,
The word says prove things. There is a ton of phoney baloney things going on. Christ said many false annointings would be on the scene.

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Yes, but it is His church and He is able. I keep asking myself "do I really believe it". Do I believe the Holy Spirit is capable of running the Church…. Jesus did not leave us alone but promised to send the Holy Spirit, Who will stick closer than a brother….
There is none, 'all right' not one… so who do you put your trust in? A denomination? A group? A man?
That is why I fellowship with believers but follow no man. I know some great people who love the Lord who are anointed and can preach and teach… and they can fall, and they can be wrong, and as I have seen recently, they could have an affair and I would be very disappointed. But since I follow no man, I am never disappointed in the Lord.
I have a high tolerance for error, for people in positions of authority in the church, they are judged more harshly and tempted more often. Satan targets them more than others bc it can do more damage…. They speak out what they believe while most of us are sitting in the congregation weighing their thoughts, so we know if they are wrong. No one knows when I'm wrong. If you teach or preach you are a public figure and are also a target. I imagine your wrong in some of your theology??? Right? But I can't slam you (not that I would) bc you haven't written a book or been interviewed on TV.

Can you see where I'm going… it is just so easy to berate people who have differing beliefs but WE ALL have differing beliefs. In any congregation there will not be 100% agreement unless its a cult… bc we are all in a different place on our own journey toward the Lord. Hopefully we will all arrive intact, but some of us may take a different pathway. Some will take very difficult paths and others will play it safe…. being Charismatic is more difficult than being evangelical, being evangelical is more difficult than being mainstream Calvinist… etc etc I have thought about becoming Catholic and letting someone else do all my thinking, but I have too many things I already feel strongly about…. like praying to anyone other than through Jesus.

God bless, andrea

Hi Andrea,
How do you know if I haven't written a book, or been on TV.

turned around said:

Hi Andrea,
How do you know if I haven't written a book, or been on TV.

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I don't …LOL… whats the name of the book I'd love to read it… Can I get it free or are you going to make me pay full price…. ugh…. I hate paying full price.

Hi Andrea,
This brings up valid point. So many of us talk like we have throne room experiences myself included. I asked Jesus almost two years help me start over. The biggest thing I've found is I'm in to big of a hurry. For change in myself and others. You mentioned the Spirit and he is in charge. But he's in no hurry, I've found one of his greatest thrills is to cry Abba father with me. He wants me to move from the position of son ship, and not servant, just enjoy the ride.

turned around said:

Hi Andrea,
This brings up valid point. So many of us talk like we have throne room experiences myself included. I asked Jesus almost two years help me start over. The biggest thing I've found is I'm in to big of a hurry. For change in myself and others. You mentioned the Spirit and he is in charge. But he's in no hurry, I've found one of his greatest thrills is to cry Abba father with me. He wants me to move from the position of son ship, and not servant, just enjoy the ride.

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I wrote something similar in my blog this month… do I have to paste the whole thing?? I can't here, I don't want to derail this thread…
I am seeking a closer walk with the Lord especially in the prophetic, but I know when I ask for these things they come with a price and there are no heavenly discounts… but first we MUST know who we are in Christ and that we have the Holy Spirit within us… then we need to get out of His way… that is the hardest thing for me… busy busy mind…. always chatting to the Lord, always communing in Him, but rarely sitting in silence and to hear the Lord we must listen…. and desire Him…

I laugh like He really ??? needs my advice…LOL… I need to shut up and listen to Him…. (maybe 10-15 years ago) I could not overcome myself until I realized I was actually a child of the king… adopted into His household. Now I might be a floor sweeper or a door keeper, that is fine with me…. whatever the Lord wants from me, I want to submit to Him….. I had to repent of asking the Lord not to give me prophecy…. it scared me… so now I seek His word only….
The Lord has been very patient and so gracious to me and my family, we are truly blessed beyond measure, I could never do enough or love Him more than I do today….
I do hear from the Lord, but it is sporadic and usually a personal word for me or my family… I think of these times as precious precious gifts, I share with others. I don't know how many people I've told about the things the Lord has said to me, LOL… but they listen…. and it gives me a chance to share the reality of Christ in our everyday lives. It is not just about heaven or hell… its about today. Having and living in relationship with our Lord is an amazing lifestyle. Always looking for those little miracles… His blessings… He makes me smile in the morning… and without my coffee…. thats when I know I really love Him….LOL

Andrea411 said:

so sorry, it can be so difficult to see so much corruption in His church. Went through a few church splits in my time too. They were heartbreaking… recently saw two churches dissolve bc of adultery…. so sad… I keep wondering if they think of the spiritual implications while they're playing around. Do they realize that it could effect people's eternities…. ? Truly Sad.
Praying you find a good home church. I'm in between churches. Have good fellowship just not under a ministry. I am praying the Lord direct myself and my husband together into a ministry….
God bless, andrea

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OH thanks so much .. I am sure that even this will be worked for our good, for his pleasure and his will . but it sure is sad..
and we are sure enjoying our own family studies and prayer times with the kids and grandkids. heck got as big a family as some of the churches around here. thanks that was sweet!

YahwehElShaddai said:

Very passionate about the subject I see, thats good! I agree NT prophets are not to be out of the body of Christ, but according to 1 Corinthians 14:3, edification is one of many things a prophet does in the Church, or speaks that is. Can't edification seem harsh at times? Building someone up isn't always fluffy bunnies and purple unicorns, surely you know this.

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Agreed, sometimes things need to be torn down before something new can be built in their place.

I would be careful being critical of any prophet unless you have clear guidance from the Holy Spirit as to their messages validity. If, and I do mean if they speak from God honestly and their message is true then such criticism would be aimed at the Lord Himself. Jesus rebuked the churches in Revelation, well most of them, so why is it hard to think He wouldn't now? Especially since a large part of the Church accepts gay marriage, or the like?

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I'd urge caution with any prophet before accepting what they have to say. When Paul wrote "Do not despise prophecy, test all things, hold fast what is true" it's clear we are not to ignore prophecy completely but if we are instructed to "test all things" it means nobody gets a free pass just because they claim to be a prophet. If they are a prophet their words will align with Scripture. If their words do not align with Scripture I would reject what they have to say.

Arguments like "God is doing a new thing", "Go off the map", "Follow God in faith" etc sound fine but it's hard to see God giving us the Scriptures, telling us to test things, test the spirits, beware of false Christs and false prophets, and then send a prophet who will lead us away from all those things. To follow someone who teaches contrary to Scripture out of nothing more than fear that "maybe they are speaking from God" is to play right into the hands of the false prophets.

If someone's message is true it will align with Scripture. If it appears to contradict Scripture then either the message is wrong or my understanding of Scripture is wrong. I'd hope anyone expecting to be taken seriously as a teacher would be willing to take the time to indicate how their message did align with Scripture. Otherwise the only message is "Your understanding is wrong, just trust me on this", and not thinking about something doesn't sit too easily against "Love the Lord your God with all your mind".

YahwehElShaddai said:

^ this is what I meant, sorry phrased it poorly. Was trying to say be cautious with prophets until their message is confirmed but don't be critical either until their message is exposed as false. Or something along those lines. Thanks!

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Fair enough - are you wanting to say leave things in the "don't know yet" pile before rushing to put them in the "true" or "false" piles?

As long as people don't regard testing as being the same as criticising that sounds good

A watchman (There was only one in the bible) is called to care for the people . and turn them away from their ways that lead to death .

A prophet tends to be more detached . like Elijah .

YahwehElShaddai said:

Except Jeremiah was quite attached to his people and land. Just because Ezekiel was the only named "watchman" in scriptures doesn't mean there weren't more.

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yeah Jeremiah was called as a prophet . he didn't follow the instructions so it was hard for him . he suffered along with the people .

YahwehElShaddai said:

I think Jeremiah followed his instructions quite well given his circumstances. His life is one that all can learn from, as I'm very confident as the last days come upon us our plights will resemble Jeremiah's closely.

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yeah he did his best . that's all we can do .