Was this King David's palace?

[Anduril]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/05/international/middleeast/05jerusalem.html?ex=1125547200&en=dcb6bd263cd27d42&ei=5070&ex=1124337600&en=501b7b3b5f0ea8a0&ei=5070&8hpib

"JERUSALEM, Aug. 4 - An Israeli archaeologist says she has uncovered in East Jerusalem what may be the fabled palace of the biblical King David."

 

[Jasminrose]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Saucy]

probably. finally, proof that king david lived.

 

[kofh2u]

probably. finally, proof that king david lived.

Are you talking about that seal they foud?

I don't want to say too much, because the moderaters get mad if you are not a college guy writing a paper, and all.

But us that what u mean?

 

[JohnStevenson]

I suppose it is possible that it is David or Solomon's palace, but it is equally likely that it is not. In any case, the dig bears evidence that Jerusalem of that era was indeed a substantial city rather than the mere village some would make it out to have been.

 

[justified]

One has to be careful in this field. Everyone wants to find some remnant of a place in Jerusalem, but we also know that these palaces were destroyed by armies. Also, it's difficult to discern between a palace and a stable at times. I truly don't mean this against biblical archaeologists. Also, East Jerusalem would be an odd place to put a citadel or hold court, based on what we know of Jerusalem. Frankly, it's on the wrong side of the temple mount.

 

[CovenantRay]

Here is a link to a new article on this subject, FYI.

Jerusalem ruins point to biblical palace

Eilat Mazar has found ruins of what may be palace built by David and used by Judean kings for more than four centuries. If she is right, it would deal deathblow to revisionist camp, whose theory is predicated on absence of evidence in Jerusalem from this period. But is she right?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3152858,00.html

CovenantRay

 

[justified]

That article says nearly nothing, the picture is misleading, and it is a severely biased magazine.

That said, I truly hope they do find something conclusive

 

[kofh2u]

That article says nearly nothing, the picture is misleading, and it is a severely biased magazine.

That said, I truly hope they do find something conclusive

First Temple Seal Discovered in Arab Debris
15:17 Sep 28, '05 / 24 Elul 5765

(IsraelNN.com) Archaeologists have revealed they have found a Jewish seal from the period of the First Temple, according to Professor Gabi Barkay.

[WHO IS HE?]

The seal was discovered in debris which was taken from the Temple Mount six years ago and is the first time a Jewish artifact from the First Temple has been found, he added.

[IS THIS A DIFFERENT PIECE OF INVESTIGATION?]

The seal, less than one centimeter long and made from burnt mud, bears ancient Hebrew writing and probably was used for official documents and letters, Prof. Barkay said. It is more than 2500 years old and provides a direct link with the era of King David.

[HMMMM...]

Arab Moslems have authority over the Temple Mount site and have been systematically removing debris from the Temple Mount site for years despite protests from archaeologists who fear they will lose any opportunity to find remnants of the First Temple.

[WHERE IS THE MEDIA ON THIS STUFF?]

Arabs also have waged a publicity campaign claiming that the Jewish Temples never existed on the mount.

[AND, THEIR MOSQUE:

The Dome of The Rock covers the stone Jews believe was the altar whereon Abraham prepared to sacrifice Isaac. The muslims say mohammed ascended to heaven from that rock, though he had died years before elsewhwere in Medina.

Built between 685-691 by Caliph Abdal-Malik ibn Marwan, a shrine fpr pilgrims modelled on the Christian martyria. Inscriptures on it say IT’S ORIGINL PURPOSE WAS TO PROCLAIM THAT JESUS WAS ONLY A PROPHET AMONG PROPHETS AND NOT THE SON OFGOD. Merrian-Webster Enc of World Religions.
Pg 299, 1999 ed]

 

[justified]

Professor Gabi Barkay

I think he's at a univerisity in Jerusalem whose name is in a mind block right now. Anyway, it's a good spot.

IS THIS A DIFFERENT PIECE OF INVESTIGATION?

Yes, it is. The temple mount is directly north of the city of david. The temple was built on the temple mount because it's a little bit higher up: a kind of high place. The debris they're talking about are debris inside the enormous stone retainer walls created by Herod the Great to modify the temple complex. They've been moving stuff around in there for years and years.

Also, this may be the first time a temple aritifact has been found, but that's not all that clear in itself. There's no description of the what was written on the seal, or whether there's clear evidence the seal belonged in the temple. We DO have other seals from that time period.

WHERE IS THE MEDIA ON THIS STUFF?

You are reading it! The find isn't all that extraordinary, though.

and just a correction: the Dome of the Rock is not a mosque. The Al Aqsa Mosque is up there too, but it's wrong to call the DoR a mosque.

 

[kofh2u]

I think he's at a univerisity in Jerusalem whose name is in a mind block right now. Anyway, it's a good spot.


Yes, it is. The temple mount is directly north of the city of david. The temple was built on the temple mount because it's a little bit higher up: a kind of high place. The debris they're talking about are debris inside the enormous stone retainer walls created by Herod the Great to modify the temple complex. They've been moving stuff around in there for years and years.

Also, this may be the first time a temple aritifact has been found, but that's not all that clear in itself. There's no description of the what was written on the seal, or whether there's clear evidence the seal belonged in the temple. We DO have other seals from that time period.


You are reading it! The find isn't all that extraordinary, though.

and just a correction: the Dome of the Rock is not a mosque. The Al Aqsa Mosque is up there too, but it's wrong to call the DoR a mosque.

Thanks for the info.

Did I call it the DoR a mosque or do others say that?

And, isn't that the present use to which it has been put?

 

[justified]

no, it's not a mosque. they have a mosque up there called Al Aqsa. The DoR is a shrine, a holy place nevertheless, but not a mosque.

 

[kofh2u]

no, it's not a mosque. they have a mosque up there called Al Aqsa. The DoR is a shrine, a holy place nevertheless, but not a mosque.

Oh, I had thought they were sort of one and the same, attached or something, the Mosque of Omar, isn't it?

Are you saying the dome which covers the rock from which Mohammed sprung to heaven, and that is a shrine, housed by that dome. Is it like the colloseum in Mecca where the Shrine of the Kaaba is viewed by the pilgrims who attend?

Dome of the Rock
Mosque of Omar
Al Aqsa

These seem to have been used as equivalents in articles I have read.

But, yes, I undertood that the DoR was an anti-Christ shrine:

Built between 685-691 by Caliph Abdal-Malik ibn Marwan, a shrine for pilgrims modelled on the Christian martyria. ‘
Inscriptures on it say IT’S ORIGINAL PURPOSE WAS TO PROCLAIM THAT JESUS WAS ONLY A PROPHET AMONG PROPHETS AND NOT THE SON OF GOD.

true?

 

[justified]

I've never been inside. You can get on the temple mount of you're not Jewish, but I look too Jewish to get up there.

 

[kofh2u]

I've never been inside. You can get on the temple mount of you're not Jewish, but I look too Jewish to get up there.

If a tourist walks toward the "shrine," who stops him? Is it like an armed camp, or just the doorman won't let you in?

When you say, too jewish, it is all how you look? Papers, ID, what?

It sounds hostile.

 

[justified]

The temple mount is separated from Jerusalem by two blocks. First, the mountain IS a hill, and it has a retaining wall around it (wailing wall) built by Herod. That means you have to go up a ramp to get up there. Secondly, to get to the wailing wall, you have to pass through Israeli security which is quite tight.

The muslim clerics and worshipers will stop you if you try to do something wrong. Also, the Palestinian police are stationed on the mount.

I look Jewish because I do. While I was there, I was often mistaken for an Israeli.

 

[kofh2u]

The temple mount is separated from Jerusalem by two blocks. First, the mountain IS a hill, and it has a retaining wall around it (wailing wall) built by Herod. That means you have to go up a ramp to get up there. Secondly, to get to the wailing wall, you have to pass through Israeli security which is quite tight.

The muslim clerics and worshipers will stop you if you try to do something wrong. Also, the Palestinian police are stationed on the mount.

I look Jewish because I do. While I was there, I was often mistaken for an Israeli.

Thanks.
Also, I didn't mean why you couldn't get inside, tho' you mentioned looking Jewish.

I meant, if anyone, a Western looking person, approached, could they proceed to enter, or do you need ID, or something.

Are you saying that the Wailing Wall which the Jews attend to pray is two blocks away from the "shrine," itself? The wall rises up, and from the Wailing Wall, the ground extends a city block before getting to the Dome?

I thought the DoR sat on the site of the Second Temple, which seems supported by the DoR being above the floor of the Wailing Wall.
Do they know exactly where the Temple Holy of Holies was, in 70 AD, or is everything vague and uncertain?

Why I am asking is, I wonder if the Jews wanted to rebuild the temple again, and they thought it ought be where it once was, would in go from the wall away from the dome?
Or is the dome sitting on the second temple site?

 

[justified]

When I said "blocks" I meant security points, not street blocks. those don't exist in old Jerusalem.

Orthodox Jews do not go up on the temple mount because they do not know exactly where the holiest place was, and to them to cross that place is damnable. A westerner cannot get on the temple mount except for very few times of the day (mainly early in the morning) or with a guide, which is usually a little arav kid running around wanting some money from you.

A good graphic of the temple is here: http://www.ebibleteacher.com/images/tempang.jpg

And to see the retainer wall thing, here:
http://www.pitt.edu/~agtaylor/Israel/pictures/Jerusalem-city/wailing-wall.jpg

The function of the wailing wall was to expand the temple mount. When the wall was put up, it was filled in with dirt and expanded the hill to make room for herod's huge temple and fortress complex. It took 40+ years to do. On top of the expanded mount is where the temple in the first pic would have stood, probably with the holy of holies closest to where the people are standing in the second pic.

 

[CovenantRay]

Hello all:

Here's the 2nd part of the article I recently posted for those who may be interested.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3152891,00.html

Shabat shalom,

CovenantRay

 

[kofh2u]

When I said "blocks" I meant security points, not street blocks. those don't exist in old Jerusalem.

Orthodox Jews do not go up on the temple mount because they do not know exactly where the holiest place was, and to them to cross that place is damnable. A westerner cannot get on the temple mount except for very few times of the day (mainly early in the morning) or with a guide, which is usually a little arav kid running around wanting some money from you.

A good graphic of the temple is here: http://www.ebibleteacher.com/images/tempang.jpg

And to see the retainer wall thing, here:
http://www.pitt.edu/~agtaylor/Israel/pictures/Jerusalem-city/wailing-wall.jpg

The function of the wailing wall was to expand the temple mount. When the wall was put up, it was filled in with dirt and expanded the hill to make room for herod's huge temple and fortress complex. It took 40+ years to do. On top of the expanded mount is where the temple in the first pic would have stood, probably with the holy of holies closest to where the people are standing in the second pic.

Hmmmm...
I am still confused by the term Mosque of Omar, which I had thought was also referred to as Dome of the Rock. I read that the DofR covered the rock altar which Jews held as the place where Abe intended to offer Isaac.

true?