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...and THAT's a play on words. When your church splits, it pretends that one piece, the RCC, isn't broken. In time there are dozen of pieces, but people like you pretend that all but one of them are not pieces.
Any of the Protestant churches could play the same game you're playing (and a few do so) and say, for example, "our church, the Lutheran Episcopal Church--Mexico Synod, is united. Oh yes, some others broke off from us so they're not real Lutherans anymore."
That's all that the game requires.
That is correct. It is not only my opinion. That is what it is.all but one of them are not pieces
You may do that if you want.Oh yes, some others broke off from us so they're not real Lutherans anymore.
RCC is Christ.
You can say that, but everyone who is not determined to put a pretty face on a harsh reality knows that there is a great range of belief within the RCC. Just this week, for example, the supporters of Obama's plan to make Catholic hospitals cover birth control expenses for all employees told the bishops that their protests were not convincing BECAUSE everyone knows that almost all Catholic women practice forbidden birth control methods. It's not even worth arguing the opposite anymore.
Actually, we should not forget the "ifs".
If we fail to view history with a critical eye, one where we look at the "could haves, would haves, should haves"; history shows us that we just keep repeating the same mistakes decade after decade, century after century, millennium after millennium. Likewise, things that were handled well in the past often are forgotten when new situations arise.
Collectively, mankind is a slow learner, dense, dull and nearsighted, apart from a very few shining examples.
I agree. I "came from" out of her to bear His reproach outside the camp.
I stay out of pews 'cause I got a realy bad splinter from one as a child.
(OK, I made that last part up)
Debatable. I think not.
It looks to me like the reformation drove the counter reformation, provided many of the necessary stimuluses for Vatican II, and continues to push the RCC in areas where further reform is needed.
in other words when you talked about unity at any cost you meant at any cost to us, not to you.
I may agree. But were not for Reformation, you do not think that we would have today Popes like the Borgias, no? Boy, 500 years change a lot. We would not be in the Middle Ages.It looks to me like the reformation drove the counter reformation
Sorry, you think that we are the unlucky Catholics, sad and desperate under the Papal yoke. That to be a Catholic is a burden that depresses anyone who enters the Church Gate.in other words when you talked about unity at any cost you meant at any cost to us, not to you.
It is this kind of arrogance that will prevent the Roman Catholic Church from unifying with the other major denominations of Christianity, including the Eastern Orthodox, the Lutherans, Methodists, Reformers, Baptists (and the list goes on).
I answered that our core is Christ. You cannot be saved alone. There are no private revelations. You cannot say that you rely in Christ alone (I could call that arrogance, as if Christ would reveal to you and to you alone! But I avoid your kind of insults!). Christ revealed first to the Chosen People, Israel, and after to The Church of Christ, which is the RCC.Well I don't know about you, but the only core I'll rely on is Christ alone. I don't need the 'RCC' core to be saved.
You should say why is it arrogance.
Christ said that he was the tree, we were the branches.
You said:
I answered that our core is Christ. You cannot be saved alone. There are no private revelations. You cannot say that you rely in Christ alone (I could call that arrogance, as if Christ would reveal to you and to you alone! But I avoid your kind of insults!). Christ revealed first to the Chosen People, Israel, and after to The Church of Christ, which is the RCC.
Did i say something wrong?
Yeah.Was it from the Catholic Church?
Oh, I understand. The functional myths are very important to your church. Got to keep up appearances, etc. etc. That's really always been the first priority.That may be a Protestant argument, but not a Catholic one.
You seem to have trouble responding to the right people here. The first post you quoted is indeed mine, the other is someone elses.
You seem to be clouded by many false doctrines purported by the RCC for centuries. "Papal Infallability", and the idea that noone can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Open your eyes, my brother.
You Protestant speak so much about Papal Infallibility as if Pope was infallible when talking about culinary recipes.
Yeah.
I knew it was bogus in 1st grade catechism. By 4th grade when they tried to teach me transubstantiation I knew it was a hopeless situation & the bestI could do was try & keep my head down until I was old enough to walk away. Turned out I was the last one in our family to quit going to mass.
That happens.
Boy, no one understands Transubstantiation.
Yes, I have trouble with that, for something people complain.
Sorry: I apologize for that.
No, Christ can speak to you personally. And He does.
But revelations are done collectively. In Christianity, to the Jewish People, the chosen People and to the Church of Christ, Which We believe it is the RCC.
You Protestant speak so much about Papal Infallibility as if Pope was infallible when talking about culinary recipes. Rarely a Pope speaks "ex cathedra". Some Popes never did. Popes make mistakes and are not always infallible. As i said, some never used that character. For instance, I dont remember any declaration "ex cathedra" of the last 6 popes. Yet, the Infallibility comes always connected with the Pope.
The tone some Protestant use here seems to be much more "infallible" than the tone of our Popes.
Sorry again for my mistakes.
Pray for you, Brother.
Oh, I understand. The functional myths are very important to your church. Got to keep up appearances, etc. etc. That's really always been the first priority.
But with Catholics, the 90% either keep themselves inside and accept the doctrine thought they think it is wrong or else they must leave (all or some).
Things works this way in the Catholic Church.
I have no doubt that you'll think of something.What can I say more ?
But in fact neither of those happens. That is what I was referring to with the Obama example. Most Catholics do not adhere to the Church's official teachings and do not leave, either. That's because of the hold one particular myth has on them--that there is only one real church and however wrong it is, that's where they must keep their membership or risk losing God's favor.
It's worked very well but it's also a shame that any church would think it had to terrorize its own people in order to keep them loyal.
I have no doubt that you'll think of something.
But of course. Many couples have trouble with the Catholic viewpoint on contraception. I am in a Catholic Forum and I see real dramas. Very real dramas.Obama example.
You dont know who I am but you already know me well.I have no doubt that you'll think of something.
OK, Mark, let's re-open the past. No problem...
But in fact neither of those happens. That is what I was referring to with the Obama example. Most Catholics do not adhere to the Church's official teachings and do not leave, either. That's because of the hold one particular myth has on them--that there is only one real church and however wrong it is, that's where they must keep their membership or risk losing God's favor.
It's worked very well but it's also a shame that any church would think it had to terrorize its own people in order to keep them loyal.
I have no doubt that you'll think of something.
In reading all the posts from protestants on various boards and listening to many radio shows attended protestant services my assessment of protestantism is that it is a mixture of theologies of which each individual protestant will have their scriptures lined up to defend as the Word of God, yet which clearly cannot all be true. I.e. 7 year premil, 3.5year pre-mil, postmil, no-mil, amil, etc. etc. Just as one example of the multitude of theologies on one topic that each one will defend to the grave.
(.......)
I listen to a local protestant radio station and it has lutherans on declaring baptismal regeneration and infant baptism and then baptists on who deny both of these things. OSAS and the possibility of falling away, dispensationalists, preterists, partial preterists, you name it and various combinations of the above.
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