Faith In God
A little FIG is all we need...
The law gives sin its power? not really. without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. we merely see sin for what it really is with the law.verismo said:
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The law gives sin its power? not really. without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. we merely see sin for what it really is with the law.verismo said:Oy.
Ok, like I said, I meant in the "apart from the Law, Sin is dead" way.
Create...wrong word.
The Law gives Sin its power.
Yes, I know. It is truly the orthodox opinion on the matter.verismo said:The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing"(Lateran Council IV-1215: DS 800)
twolvesballer said:Satan was not always bad, because here is a quote in Luke, where Jesus sent his diciples out.
Luke 10
17The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."
18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.
God wants all of His creation to choose him, using their gift of free will... An evil being would never "choose God". So why would God create it?TSIBHOD said:I don't think you understood my point. Some argue that it is against God's nature to create an evil being, because apparently, they think that to create an evil being is to be an evil being. If God, however, created a being that He knew would become evil, does that not make Him evil then by those standards? It would seem that God can indeed create a being that He knows will become evil without being evil Himself. So why can He not create a being that is evil "from the beginning," and still not be evil Himself?
from the beginning could mean, from the beginning (when He created the angels) OR from the beginning (when He created man) or the beginning of principalities OR from the beginning of powers..Does anyone wish to dispute that the most contextually warranted definition of "from the beginning" in John 8:44 and I John 3:8 is "from the devil's own beginning"? If so, please present your argument.
@@Paul@@ said:An evil being would never "choose God". So why would God create it?
So: Adam was created to sin, so that Satan (the evil created being) would have something to do in making the sons of the first sinner, righteous, through a process of purification where we (the sinning sons of Adam) are tempted by Satan..... That makes sense.TSIBHOD said:For our benefit. Consider Job. He was purified by his experience. God did not allow those calamities to happen to Job just "for fun." Satan was created as a tool for purifying the righteous. Isaiah 54:16 ESV:
Behold, I have created the smith who blows the fire of coals and produces a weapon for its purpose. I have also created the ravager to destroy;
OK, whatever: but I'd say that if something is dead without the other, I'd say it got some power from it. But that is just me.butxifxnot said:The law gives sin its power? not really. without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. we merely see sin for what it really is with the law.
@@Paul@@ said:So: Adam was created to sin, so that Satan (the evil created being) would have something to do in making the sons of the first sinner, righteous, through a process of purification where we (the sinning sons of Adam) are tempted by Satan..... That makes sense.
Maybe, Adam and Satan were created GOOD, and they both chose to sin.
I don't understand what you mean... Adam did not need to fall?TSIBHOD said:The sin of man was not necessary. Job was tempted and did not sin.
Um, aren't we evil????@@Paul@@ said:God wants all of His creation to choose him, using their gift of free will... An evil being would never "choose God". So why would God create it?
but, as was stated before, there are MANY beginnings..........magnum said:Guys,
John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
There is your answer! Poll or no poll. The word says he was a murderer from the begining
TSIBHOD said:BTW,
If you voted (or you do vote) the second option ("He was a murderer from the beginning."), please post that you did so, if you don't mind. Since there are so few of us who hold this view, I would be interested to know who it is who holds it. If you don't want to be public about it, you can just give me a PM. I'm just curious. Thanks.
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