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Was Mohammed a Paedophile?

""

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Interesting question. This suggests that he was indeed a pedophile. (btw, we spell it without the a here, but it means the same thing)

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six
years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with
him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

The intervals between prayers are used for quick stands "I used to wash the traces of Janaba
(sperm) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were
still on it."

From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran,
1990 : A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not
penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he
should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as
one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
[...] It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at
her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young
will have a permanent place in heaven. How it all began ( a long time ago in the isolated
deserts of Arabia) : Already, when Aisha (the daughter of Abu Bakr, Mohammad's closest friend
and unquestioning ally) was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her
[Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI, 5:235] and he wasted no time in realizing his dreams, inspite of the
fact that object of his dreams was a mere child.Perhaps you want to assume that it is
"normal" for a 50+ year old man to dream of marrying a 4-5 old child, and then ACTUALLY ask
for her hand at 6?

Is it normal for an oversexed old man (Muhammad had over 9 wives and concubines) to dream of a union
with a 4-5 year old girl?

Muhammad ( SAW ) was basically oversexed, his sexual relationship with Aisha is a special case,
which fits his strong need for a larger latitude to satisfy his sexual urge, as is witnessed by:

"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven
in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that
the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that
Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven)." [Bukhari.1:268]

When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was
improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by
saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIH BUKHAR I7:18].

What happened to " there is no compulsion in matters of religion ?" Anyway what compulsion did
Muhhammad need being a prophet his word was law, he restricted men to only four wives when he
himself had more than four, that was a convenient exemption for Muhhammad.

So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was
consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI
1991:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .

The 3 year waiting period probably had to do with the fact that at that time Aisha had contracted
some disease, whereby she, temporarily lost her hair. Aisha was then socially and psychologically
still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of
what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times
[Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].

Aisha became Muhammad's favourite wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant [
SAHIH BUKHARI .1.270, 3:36, 7:6, 3:148, 3:149, 3:150, 7:142, IbnSa'd 1pg165 ]. Later, Aisha was to
be called the "mother of believers". If you are wandering, yes, the relationship was pedophilic.
When did the sexual relations between Prophet Mohammad and his child bride begin?

Unfortunately we do not have any video recordings of such events. Neither can we expect that there
would be any explicit statements regarding this. In any case it is certain that she had NOT reached
puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house, which in itself, contrary to the prevailing social
norms, is a tacit implication that he may indulge in whatever fantasies he may have had when he
asked for Aisha's hand. And Muhammad did have fantasies.

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151: Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of
the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my
dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play
with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for
'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari
page 143, Vol.13)
link

I apologize if that is too graphic, and I will remove some of it if anybody feels offended.
 
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FunkyBrother

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Phred said:
Was Bugs Bunny a Zoophiliac?

It matters just as much.
TeddyKGB said:
Is there some unresolved philosophical issue here that I am simply missing?

If this topic is of no interest to you both, then why bother replying! (that's rhetorical)


Thanks Adiya.

Obviously in today's terms, he would be classed as a disgusting paedophile. Even in his times terms, it seems to me quite sick. Although I've seen a few arguments stating otherwise.

What I'm interested in; is if anyone has viewed this topic in more detail and their conclusions.

Thank you for anyone who can shed more light.
 
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In A Perfect World

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I don't think so. It was common for men to marry younger women at the time. If it is anything like today, the men probably wouldn't even feel a physical attraction to the girl until she became a teenager. You also have to remember, girls wouldn't get their periods till past age 14 in those days. Some girls in Africa don't get their periods until like age 17 or 18, but they are generally more in need of help than Arabs at the time would have been. Not like today where girls are fully developed at 12. Hormones in milk, access to nutritious foods, and vitamins allow girls to reach maturity quicker.

Let's not forget Mary probably became pregnant at a very early age.
 
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skinner

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In A Perfect World said:
I don't think so. It was common for men to marry younger women at the time. If it is anything like today, the men probably wouldn't even feel a physical attraction to the girl until she became a teenager. You also have to remember, girls wouldn't get their periods till past age 14 in those days. Some girls in Africa don't get their periods until like age 17 or 18, but they are generally more in need of help than Arabs at the time would have been. Not like today where girls are fully developed at 12. Hormones in milk, access to nutritious foods, and vitamins allow girls to reach maturity quicker.

Let's not forget Mary probably became pregnant at a very early age.

Very young age is one thing, but 4-5 year olds? That's just sick.

Two prophets-Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammand has sex with young girls, while Jesus treats women with a respect unheard of at that time-even prostitites.
Makes you wonder what any woman sees in the islamic religion.
 
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TeddyKGB

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FunkyBrother said:
If this topic is of no interest to you both, then why bother replying! (that's rhetorical)


Thanks Adiya.

Obviously in today's terms, he would be classed as a disgusting paedophile. Even in his times terms, it seems to me quite sick. Although I've seen a few arguments stating otherwise.

What I'm interested in; is if anyone has viewed this topic in more detail and their conclusions.

Thank you for anyone who can shed more light.
It was an honest question. Are we not asking, "Is the definition of pedophile such that Mohammed was one"?

Personally, I would say yes, he was a pedophile. But then all that really means is that I define pedophile in such a way as to include Mohammed.

As I said, that is not much of a philosophical issue. Is there something that Mohammed's pedophilia means in a larger scope?
 
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David Gould

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The fact that they had a loving relationship for many years and that Aishia wrote of her joy at being married to the prophet seems to me to indicate that whatever the relationship may have been, it was not violent, abusive or uncaring. In today's terms, it was pedophilia. However, Mary was pregnant at an age which is likely younger than modern ages of consent. Does that make God a statutory rapist? Cultural mores and morals alter over time - what we condemn today, we allow tomorrow, and vice versa.
 
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tocis

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While I didn't read the OP of this thread (FunkyBrother is on my ignore list, and I won't take him out of it just for reading one posting), here's my generic position...

...if Mohamed can justly be called a pedophile for something he (supposedly?) did back then, when it was legal and quite usual... can the biblical patriarchs, up to and including Jesus himself, not be accused of a number of crimes too? Such things like slavery were quite common back then and are (I hope!) illegal in all at least half-civilized countries today. For slavery specifically, I'm not aware of any verse in the Bible where it is said clearly and without need for interpretation that slavery is a bad thing. On the contrary, rules are stated for proper treatment of slaves, some of them definitely disgusting by today's standards (it's okay to beat your slave to death as long as he suffers for some days before finally dying).

Do we want it both ways, declaring Mohamed a criminal while granting amnesty for very similar things to Moses, Jesus, younamethem? Or do we want to be fair and say "Either we judge them all by today's standards, or we judge none of them"? :scratch:

(Christian readers note: Yes, I am aware of there being interpretations out there that can be used to "prove" that at least Jesus and/or Paul were against slavery, but then, these are interpretations. With enough interpretation we can make pretty much every text say everything we want)
 
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Blackguard_

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...if Mohamed can justly be called a pedophile for something he (supposedly?) did back then, when it was legal and quite usual...

legal yes, but I was under the impression most marriages were consumated at at least puberty, which a 9 year old is a few years away from. Wasn't marriage age more like 14-16 for girls? Wasn't 9 young even back then?

Is there something that Mohammed's pedophilia means in a larger scope?
Other than an ad hominem attack on Islam, probably not much.
 
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Tsarina

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In today's age he would be looked upon as a pedofile. Back in his time, it was pretty normal to marry a girl when she was a very young age. It wasnt considered deviant at all. We are judging what has happend then to our beliefs and standards from this generation with was nothing like Mohmmad's generation.
 
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stray bullet

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Marrying a girl is one thing, a sex act with someone that is obviously not anywhere near puberty is another issue. From what I've understood, the maturity of the sexual organs was important to ancient cultures and was their equivalent to an 'age of consent'.

I need proof that his wife was physically mature at the time and the culture he was in was accepting of it before making a judgment. My understanding of semetic culture in the ancient world gives me the impression it wasn't.
 
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""

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tocis said:
if Mohamed can justly be called a pedophile for something he (supposedly?) did back then, when it was legal and quite usual

Please provide proof for any crime that you claim Jesus committed. They crucified him for "blasphemy" for they did not believe He was the Christ. You cannot show any proof of criminal activity by Jesus, so please don't bother comparing him to a child molestor. :sick: Utterly offensive. Mohammed had sex with a little girl (5-6 years of age) and it doesn't matter what day or age that occured, it's sexual abuse.

David Gould said:
The fact that they had a loving relationship for many years and that Aishia wrote of her joy at being married to the prophet seems to me to indicate that whatever the relationship may have been, it was not violent, abusive or uncaring

I suppose that depends on what you call abuse. Patty Hearst, when she was saved from her captors (who had raped her, beaten her, starved her, brainwashed her, and turned her into a bank robber) claimed that she loved those who abused her. Ask her if she loves them now. She'll tell you that it was the most traumatic event in her life, and that she feels no admiration for the abusers who held her captive so long ago.
 
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Brennin

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FunkyBrother said:
Was Mohammed a Paedophile?

Yes, because Aisha was only nine when he had sex with her; I sincerely doubt a nine year old girl had yet attained puberty, so Muhammad's actions fall under the official psychiatric definition of paedophilia.
 
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Brennin

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tocis said:
...if Mohamed can justly be called a pedophile for something he (supposedly?) did back then, when it was legal and quite usual... can the biblical patriarchs, up to and including Jesus himself, not be accused of a number of crimes too?

Jesus? No (unless the "crime" you had in mind was the false accusation of insurrectionism leveled against him by his enemies).
 
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tocis

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Brennin said:
Jesus? No (unless the "crime" you had in mind was the false accusation of insurrectionism leveled against him by his enemies).

Depends, I think. There are those who consider the lack of condemnation of a certain act to be, in fact, tacit condonement. If we apply this to what Jesus supposedly said about slavery (and, I guess, some other things we consider disgusting today... I'd have to look that up though, so that's for another day), we find that he didn't exactly say anything against that...

...does that mean he condoned slavery? You be the judge. As I said, it depends.
 
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