Was King Saul saved?

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

I would say this verse indicates he was.

I Samuel 28:19 "Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines".

This was Samuel speaking to Saul when Saul consulted a medium. This was clearly Samuel, and not a familiar spirit that would normally come about through consultation through a medium.

 

[DeaconDean]

I ran across this searching the internet. I used to think Saul wasn't saved, but now, I'm not sure.

King Saul and King Solomon

Are they in Hell?

​

Q: King Saul was rejected as King by God for rejecting His Word. Is
he in Hell? How about King Solomon? He went to worship idols
because of his wives. Is he in Hell?

A: Determining the salvation of others is always a tricky business. The two
men you bring up certainly have an uncertain testimony. The scripture may
not be completely clear as to their final abode. However, I have reasons
for believing that both them were saved. I will explain briefly.

SAUL

Saul was certainly rejected by God. The Spirit of God that had guided him
(1Samuel 11:6) departed from him when he rebelled against God (1Samuel
16:14). God refused to speak to Saul by any of the accepted methods
(1Samuel 28:6). However, an incident that occurred when Saul approached
the witch of Endor has convinced me that he was probably saved. The witch
was frightened when Samuel came up (1Samuel 28:11-14). He was obviously
not the familiar spirit she was used to receiving. The Bible text calls
him Samuel (v.12, 15). Certainly, this was an actual appearance by
Samuel. Notice a verse from what Samuel told Saul:

1Samuel 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into
the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be
with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of
the Philistines.

Saul and his sons will be with Samuel by the next day. Samuel was
evidently in Abraham's bosom (as was Lazarus in Luke 16:22-23).
Everything about Jonathan, one of Saul's sons, points to him being saved.
Samuel states that Saul and his sons would be with him--that is, where
Samuel was. I do not think this would be possible if Saul went to hell.
By the way, I realize that many will think that Samuel is simply
referring to the place of the dead. That is a possibility, but I still do
not think it makes as much sense. The phrase "with me" is just too
strong.

SOLOMON

Solomon also got himself into deep trouble with God. However, I think he
was probably saved. Instead of a long argument, let me give just one
verse:

Nehemiah 13:26 Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet
among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his
God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did
outlandish women cause to sin.

This verse recognizes the sin of Solomon while at the same time declaring
him "beloved of his God." I just do not see how this statement could be
made of a lost man.

Just remember, these men lived before the universal indwelling of the
Holy Spirit. They could lose the Spirit without losing their salvation.
They were simply required to die "in faith" (Hebrews 11:13). Though I
accept that I could be wrong on this, I believe they both are saved. God
bless.


http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_king_saul_and_king_solomon.htm

The article does make sense.

 

[Stan53]

Seeing as how he was rejected of God I don't think he is saved. The passage you are refering to out of 1 Sam 28:19 may imply that they would die which of course Samual already had and Saul is about to. It is interesting to note that Saul grandson finishes up eating at the Kings table so long as he lives.
DeaconDean appears to raise a valid point. But once again consider that it is Samuel who appears to the witch not God. Saul is still rejected by God.

 

[Cliff2]

I would say this verse indicates he was.

I Samuel 28:19 "Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines".

This was Samuel speaking to Saul when Saul consulted a medium. This was clearly Samuel, and not a familiar spirit that would normally come about through consultation through a medium.

No, it was not Samuel speaking.

Dead people do not speak.

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

I ran across this searching the internet. I used to think Saul wasn't saved, but now, I'm not sure.

Yes I ran across that as well. I think it's interesting that he mentions Solomon. I think most people probably believe Solomon is in Heaven.

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

Seeing as how he was rejected of God I don't think he is saved. The passage you are refering to out of 1 Sam 28:19 may imply that they would die which of course Samual already had and Saul is about to. It is interesting to note that Saul grandson finishes up eating at the Kings table so long as he lives.
DeaconDean appears to raise a valid point. But once again consider that it is Samuel who appears to the witch not God. Saul is still rejected by God.

It's no doubt controversial. As I understand it the place called 'Abrahams Busom' consists of a gulf to where one side there's comfort, and the other torment. So when Solomon stated that he and his sons would be with him, then to believe he wasn't saved meant that Solomon meant on the other side of the gulf. But I agree with the article that it's a pretty strong statement to declare that he (Saul) would be with him.

How about Sampson? God in a sense rejected him. Or at least he certainly removed the anointing. However right before his death God granted him a last request so to speak, and anointed him with super-human strength which brought judgement to the Philistines. Did Sampson redeem himself by making this last request? Was the motive for the request (wanting personal vengeance) too self-serving?

My personal opinion, and it's no reflection on anyone and is merely a general opinion is, the bible at times may be viewed almost the same way someone would read a comic book or even a novel. In other words you have the heroes and you have the villains. King David is redeemed in all of our minds because we know what God has to say about him. Even though God had been extremely angry with him, and David commited a horrific sin, God says David was a man after His own heart. Paul was a murderer of Christians but becomes in a sense a biblical hero. How about the various kings who's biblical testimony reads 'did evil in the sight of God', and is more or less left at that. And then when they die the scriptures indicate they rested with there fathers. I think the term 'rested', although could just mean death is a fairly strong word in itself. In other words how can someone rest while they're in torment if one believes they weren't saved?

So I think it's quite possible that we may assume that because the bible doesn't present certain people as heroes, or even as villains that they couldn't of been saved. I'm not really talking about Jezebel or King Herod who there's 'no' reference to being with Solomon or resting with their fathers. Obviously there were genuine evil rulers or people in general who were not apart of the covenent.

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

No, it was not Samuel speaking.

Dead people do not speak.

I'm not sure what you mean here unless you're stating you think it was a familiar spirit. That would be pretty far fetched I would think. In general those that have passed on don't make appearances, but Elijah and Moses did. And they 'spoke' to Jesus!

Or are you saying that Samuel appeared but didn't verbally speak?

 

[PETE_]

This does not answer the initial question but does give some insight on the story

Verses 15-19
We have here the conference between Saul and Satan. Saul came in disguise (v. 8), but Satan soon discovered him, v. 12. Satan comes in disguise, in the disguise of Samuel’s mantle, and Saul cannot discover him. Such is the disadvantage we labour under, in wrestling with the rulers of the darkness of this world, that they know us, while we are ignorant of their wiles and devices.
I. The spectre, or apparition, personating Samuel, asks why he is sent for (v. 15): Why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up? To us this discovers that it was an evil spirit that personated Samuel; for (as bishop Patrick observes) it is not in the power of witches to disturb the rest of good men and to bring them back into the world when they please; nor would the true Samuel have acknowledged such a power in magical arts: but to Saul this was a proper device of Satan’s, to draw veneration from him, to possess him with an opinion of the power of divination, and so to rivet him in the devil’s interests.
II. Saul makes his complaint to this counterfeit Samuel, mistaking him for the true; and a most doleful complaint it is: "I am sorely distressed, and know not what to do, for the Philistines make war against me; yet I should do well enough with them if I had but the tokens of God’s presence with me; but, alas! God has departed from me.’’ He complained not of God’s withdrawings till he fell into trouble, till the Philistines made war against him, and then he began to lament God’s departure. He that in his prosperity enquired not after God in his adversity thought it hard that God answered him not, nor took any notice of his enquiries, either by dreams or prophets, neither gave answers immediately himself nor sent them by any of his messengers. He does not, like a penitent, own the righteousness of God in this; but, like a man enraged, flies out against God as unkind and flies off from him: Therefore I have called thee; as if Samuel, a servant of God, would favour those whom God frowned upon, or as if a dead prophet could do him more service than the living ones. One would think, from this, that he really desired to meet with the devil, and expected no other (though under the covert of Samuel’s name), for he desires advice otherwise than from God, therefore from the devil, who is a rival with God. "God denies me, therefore I come to thee. Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.’’—If I fail with heaven, I will move hell.
III. It is cold comfort which this evil spirit in Samuel’s mantle gives to Saul, and is manifestly intended to drive him to despair and self-murder. Had it been the true Samuel, when Saul desired to be told what he should do he would have told him to repent and make his peace with God, and recall David from his banishment, and would then have told him that he might hope in this way to find mercy with God; but, instead of that, he represents his case as helpless and hopeless, serving him as he did Judas, to whom he was first a tempter and then a tormentor, persuading him first to sell his master and then to hang himself. 1. He upbraids him with his present distress (v. 16), tells him, not only that God had departed from him, but that he had become his enemy, and therefore he must expect no comfortable answer from him: "Wherefore dost thou ask me? How can I be thy friend when God is thy enemy, or thy counsellor when he has left thee?’’ 2. He upbraids him with the anointing of David to the kingdom, v. 17. He could not have touched upon a string that sounded more unpleasant in the ear of Saul than this. Nothing is said to reconcile him to David, but all tends rather to exasperate him against David and widen the breach. Yet, to make him believe that he was Samuel, the apparition affirmed that it was God who spoke by him. The devil knows how to speak with an air of religion, and can teach false apostles to transform themselves into the apostles of Christ and imitate their language. Those who use spells and charms, and plead, in defence of them, that they find nothing in them but what is good, may remember what good words the devil here spoke, and yet with what a malicious design. 3. He upbraids him with his disobedience to the command of God in not destroying the Amalekites, v. 18. Satan had helped him to palliate and excuse that sin when Samuel was dealing with him to bring him to repentance, but now he aggravates it, to make him despair of God’s mercy. See what those get that hearken to Satan’s temptations. He himself will be their accuser, and insult over them. And see whom those resemble that allure others to that which is evil and reproach them for it when they have done. 4. He foretels his approaching ruin, v. 19. (1.) That his army should be routed by the Philistines. This is twice mentioned: The Lord shall deliver Israel into the hand of the Philistines. This he might foresee, by considering the superior strength and number of the Philistines, the weakness of the armies of Israel, Saul’s terror, and especially God’s departure from them. Yet, to personate a prophet, he very gravely ascribes it once and again to God: The Lord shall do it. (2.) That he and his sons should be slain in the battle: To-morrow, that is, in a little time (and, supposing that it was now after midnight, I see not but it may be taken strictly for the very next day after that which had now begun), thou and thy sons shall be with me, that is, in the state of the dead, separate from the body. Had this been the true Samuel, he could not have foretold the event unless God had revealed it to him; and, though it were an evil spirit, God might by him foretel it; as we read of an evil spirit that foresaw Ahab’s fall at Ramoth-Gilead and was instrumental in it (1 Ki. 22:20, etc.), as perhaps this evil spirit was, by the divine permission, in Saul’s destruction. That evil spirit flattered Ahab, this frightened Saul, and both that they might fall; so miserable are those that are under the power of Satan; for, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest, Prov. 29:9.​

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=24640668#_ftn1http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=24640668#_ftnref1Henry, M. 1996, c1991. Matthew Henry's commentary on the whole Bible : Complete and unabridged in one volume . Hendrickson: Peabody

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

This does not answer the initial question but does give some insight on the story

It is an interesting article, however I don't think we can assume that Solomon would say anything other than what he did. Remember that seeking guidance through a medium is stricktly forbidden, so to assume Solomon would of gave him sound advice to repent and make peace with David may of been in an 'out of bounds' territory to do so. That may of been the advice of a living prophet 'if' Saul had a genuine desire to make things right. God did not answer him through prophets possibly for that very reason. As far as the appearance of Solomon, there's no question that it was out of the norm from what the medium was used to. Unless she was a fake or trickster, I'm not so sure she would of been so shocked at what she saw. Verse 12: "When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice".
The term 'familiar spirit' translates into the word 'owb' which is a water bottle. The term is used because a familiar spirit is supposed to sound like when one blows into a water bottle. If this medium actually worked with demonic spirits, and they did in fact make these type of sounds, then even still this particular instance was obviously something way out of the norm. Also the verses specifically state that is was Samuel.

 

[Cliff2]

I'm not sure what you mean here unless you're stating you think it was a familiar spirit. That would be pretty far fetched I would think. In general those that have passed on don't make appearances, but Elijah and Moses did. And they 'spoke' to Jesus!

Or are you saying that Samuel appeared but didn't verbally speak?

Samuel did not speak to King Saul but it was a familiar spirit that did the speaking.

 

[Cliff2]

1 Samuel 28

Saul and the Witch of Endor

1 In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, "You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army."

2 David said, "Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do."
Achish replied, "Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life."

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.

Verse 3 tells us that Samuel at this stage in the history of Israel was dead.

Now if we see Samuel as a being further on in the chapter then we can assume correctly that it is not Samuel but a familiar spirit.

 

[Catholic Dude]

Its a pretty simple aswer...WE DONT KNOW!

All we know is that they did things that werent to be look upon as role models for, but the state of their soul is unknown to us.

 

[DeaconDean]

Here is another question for you. Since Solomon was lead astray by his many wives, where in the Bible does it say he ever came back to the Lord?

 

[acorn_777]

Awesome topic. That was something that I have used actually in discussion with people that believe they see ghosts and feel the spiritual pressence, of a relative. Alot of people believe that this happens, and it does.

I find it so funny when I interact with Christians that say they dont believe in ghosts and spiritualists that can taslk to the dead and whatnot.

Christians, the Bible you believe in says they exist. But, He that is in us is greater than He that is in this world.

Yes though, Saul was sanctioned and annointed as a king, by God. Yet, he did consult a medium resulting in the end of his life here on earth, and defeat. Also, consider the Israelites that were swallowed by the earth, or killed for the breaking of the Law. Did they go to God, or was death in this world there pentance.

 

[PastorMikeJ]

No one was "saved" until the death of Jesus...It was through His death that salvation came into the world...so the answer would be no King Saul was not saved...will we see him in heaven?? who knows...he has as much of a chance to be there as Judas, Jezabel or Ahab...

 

[acorn_777]

No one was "saved" until the death of Jesus...It was through His death that salvation came into the world...so the answer would be no King Saul was not saved...will we see him in heaven?? who knows...he has as much of a chance to be there as Judas, Jezabel or Ahab...

Dont forget David, the lineage of Christ. Nor Solomon. Or Sampson.

Actually, Mike. No one was saved until the later turn of the century, with the branching of the Protestant movement. If you want to be technical. I say that in this manner, because I believe in the importance of knowledge of this world and the people that actually need Christ, outside of the hypocritical(some) church.

So, my thought for you is what would you tell someone that believes they see dead people or ghosts, and can sense spirirts, yet they believe in Christ and go to church.How would you educate them?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Using typology as an indicator Saul will be destroyed in the Judgement as he was one who rejected God by his disobedience. He 'planned' on sacrificing captured animals to God, but would not obey God. (God would have obedience rather than sacrifice.)

 

[acorn_777]

Using typology as an indicator Saul will be destroyed in the Judgement as he was one who rejected God by his disobedience. He 'planned' on sacrificing captured animals to God, but would not obey God. (God would have obedience rather than sacrifice.)

Umm. I agree because that is actually what Samuel told Saul, yet I ask, Would Saul perish in eternal Hell because of this sin, or would his life turn for the worse and the annointing and jealousy overrage him into desperate measures to consult a medium, in which resulted in his earthly death. All the disobedience was applied to here.

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

Here is another question for you. Since Solomon was lead astray by his many wives, where in the Bible does it say he ever came back to the Lord?

Exactly! Good point. This is actually why I feel some Christians in general view the personages in the Bible, in the "good guys vs. bad guys" light. I think Christians are more likely to believe Solomon would be in Heaven moreso than Saul simply because he's presented in a far more positive light. And as you said, there's no mention of repentence.

 

[Los Colosos Del Ring]

1 Samuel 28

Saul and the Witch of Endor

1 In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, "You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army."

2 David said, "Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do."
Achish replied, "Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life."

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.

Verse 3 tells us that Samuel at this stage in the history of Israel was dead.

Now if we see Samuel as a being further on in the chapter then we can assume correctly that it is not Samuel but a familiar spirit.

I don't think there's anymore evidence that it was not Solomon, than there is that he lost his salvation (or however one would term it) due to God removing Himself from him.

To be frank, and I mean this sincerely, I wonder if the teaching as presented in an earlier post that a familiar spirit spoke in place of Solomon would of ever been constructed if the scriptures never mentioned Saul and his sons 'being with him'. In other words is the effort made to prove it was Satan or a familiar spirit motivated by wanting to prove that Saul could not possibly be in Heaven. This may not be the case of course, but I can't help but wonder.