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Was Jesus Perfect?
- Thread starter Dream
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Our Lord learned human things in the normal human way.
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
His human consciousness was not omniscient.
"He was like unto us in all things but sin."
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
His human consciousness was not omniscient.
"He was like unto us in all things but sin."
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Benedicta00
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With out reading any other responses Im going to say no. He was not imperfect because he was God of course but also because before the fall of mankind- none of us would have had to have gone to school to receive a education- we would have been able to know things and do things with out having to put fourth the effort to do them and to learn them and there would not have been a such thing as low intelligence and learning disabilities that make people be crummy at math or make people have short term memory where they would not be able to memorize something easily.DreamTheater said:
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Benedicta00
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But doesnt being like us with the exception of sin mean original sin? If he had no original sin, then he would have been perfect. I think the question then is, in our original state of justice were we perfect and error free?
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Rising_Suns
'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'
Michelina is right; He grew as a child, and perhaps He made a mathematical mistake growing up, for example. But care needs to be taken to avoid belittling His sacrfice. He was perfect in the sense that whatever He asked of the Father, it would have been granted unto Him, since Him and the Father are one. He could have been the strongest man alive, or had an IQ of 300, if He wanted to. But He didn't need to be those things to the world; His perfection was in fullfilling His purpose; fullfilling the will of His Father; being the perfect sacrifice for mankind.Michelina said:
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Shelb5 said:
Hi, Michelle!
Of course, He was free of the consequences of Original Sin and innocent of any actual sin.
Before the fall, Adam and Eve didn't suffer from its consequences. Their intellects and wills were not confused by Concupiscence. They lived in God's grace which they subsequently lost. But there is nothing to indicate that they were error-free.
Were they "Perfect"? The question immediately arises "Perfect in what sense?"
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Rising_Suns
'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'
I believe DT's question deals with perfection in the eyes of the world; in systems that we have drawn up ourselves with our own feeble minds (like mathematics). I suppose it's more to do with worldy perfection, so to speak, as opposed to heavenly perfection. I think that distinction must first be made clear before discussing further. would you agree?
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Rising_Suns said:
You're right about the OP, Davide. It refers to the acquisition of human knowledge and that is how I originally responded. Our Lord acquired human knowledge as we all do without the impediments of concupiscence and all that that entails. This is what I think Michelle (Shelb5) was bringing up.
You touched upon a serious subject: Who He was and His consciousness of Who He was. In that respect, He acquired no knowledge. He knew Who He was from the first moment of His Conception. But the Father revealed things to his human consciousness progressively. However, He was always perfectly conformed to His Father's will, even before he humanly knew what it was.
This is a mind-boggling subject. We must proceed slowly.
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Benedicta00
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I dunno, it raises a interesting query. Going by the Baltimore Catechism where it says in our state of original justice we would not have had to study to learn I would imagine then we would have knowledge already but that doesn't necessarily mean we could not add 2+2 being 6 and just making a honest mistake.Michelina said:Hi, Michelle!
Of course, He was free of the consequences of Original Sin and innocent of any actual sin.
Before the fall, Adam and Eve didn't suffer from its consequences. Their intellects and wills were not confused by Concupiscence. They lived in God's grace which they subsequently lost. But there is nothing to indicate that they were error-free.
Were they "Perfect"? The question immediately arises "Perfect in what sense?"
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DT, your question is about the human condition of Christ, and Michelina and Rising_Suns are right. If you're interested in reading more (because I know your reading list isn't long enough already!), this has been the interest of many modern Christologists.
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Shelb5 said:
Michelle, you have an uncanny ability to home in on the nub of the issue!
Speaking on the human consciuosness of Our Lord: He would have learned very well & very easily (didn't require lots of repetition or someone to help Him "connect the dots") but He did have to learn. Although He had infused knowledge from His Father with respect to Divine realities and some human realities, He did not know all human realities by infusion. He learned most of those things as we do.
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