Was Jesus Being Sarcastic When He Stated Matt. 5:20?

[WilliamK76]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


There is no way that this verse can be taken in the sense that legalists are want to put it to support their doctrinal beliefs. For practically everything else that Jesus said to the Pharisees was completely contrary to such a declaration as this lol. Such as:

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,


Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.


Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Or maybe He had a certain respect for the intensity of their convictions and their unwavering devotion to what they believed was the truth, though from His point of view of Being God it was completely wrong and full of hypocrisy?

Or maybe He had such in mind as our beloved brother Paul when He made that statement, who would become the greatest apostle and evangelist for Christ this world has ever known? But that wasn’t because of Paul’s righteousness, but because of the Righteousness of Christ that was imputed by God into Paul’s account because he believed in Jesus, and was baptized into His Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


There is no way that this verse can be taken in the sense that legalists are want to put it to support their doctrinal beliefs.

Did you tell us what legalists want Matt 5:20 to mean??

1. It appears that Jesus starts off by condemning anyone who claims He is teaching that God's Word should be set aside.

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law,
19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Is the " whoever keeps and teaches them, " group - the legalists you refer to ???

It seems to me that Matt 5:20 refers to the Gospel 2 Cor 5 detail that we find here -
in 2 Cor 5: 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Gal 2:20 "no longer I who live - but Christ that live IN me"
Rom 8:
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

1 John 5:4 "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep His Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

 

[WilliamK76]

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law,
19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Is the " whoever keeps and teaches them, " group - the legalists you refer to ???

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

How is, “it is finished” not “fulfilled”?

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ is God and is omnipresent. So though there is a linear concept of time when He declared on earth
“ For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law,”

Yet simultaneously His Spirit is outside of time and all those things have been fulfilled and Faith grabs hold onto that reality.

For if all things had not been fulfilled concerning the law He wouldn’t of declared “it is finished”.

Yes, in the sense that y’all want to keep the new covenant under the old covenant.

 

[daq]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


There is no way that this verse can be taken in the sense that legalists are want to put it to support their doctrinal beliefs. For practically everything else that Jesus said to the Pharisees was completely contrary to such a declaration as this lol. Such as:

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,


Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.


Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Or maybe He had a certain respect for the intensity of their convictions and their unwavering devotion to what they believed was the truth, though from His point of view of Being God it was completely wrong and full of hypocrisy?

Or maybe He had such in mind as our beloved brother Paul when He made that statement, who would become the greatest apostle and evangelist for Christ this world has ever known? But that wasn’t because of Paul’s righteousness, but because of the Righteousness of Christ that was imputed by God into Paul’s account because he believed in Jesus, and was baptized into His Spirit.

Also from Matthew 23:

Matthew 23:23 ASV
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.

As for myself, I see no sarcasm in Matt 5:20, the other texts you quoted, or this one I have quoted.

 

[Soyeong]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


There is no way that this verse can be taken in the sense that legalists are want to put it to support their doctrinal beliefs. For practically everything else that Jesus said to the Pharisees was completely contrary to such a declaration as this lol. Such as:

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,


Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.


Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Or maybe He had a certain respect for the intensity of their convictions and their unwavering devotion to what they believed was the truth, though from His point of view of Being God it was completely wrong and full of hypocrisy?

Or maybe He had such in mind as our beloved brother Paul when He made that statement, who would become the greatest apostle and evangelist for Christ this world has ever known? But that wasn’t because of Paul’s righteousness, but because of the Righteousness of Christ that was imputed by God into Paul’s account because he believed in Jesus, and was baptized into His Spirit.

Jesus set sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees were and he never criticized them for obeying it, but he did criticize them for not obeying it or for not obeying it correctly. For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. Pharisees used harsh words to criticize other Pharisees for their hypocrisy, so Jesus was not the only one to do that. In regard to the debate between the house of Hillel and the house of Shammai, Jesus was virtually in complete agreement with the house of Hillel, so he did not criticize all Pharisees and it was not the case that all Pharisees were hypocrites.

In Matthew 23:2-4, Jesus instructed his followers to observe ad do whatever the Pharisees said, so he recognized their authority. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the Torah of justice, mercy, and faithfulness, so he was calling the Pharisees to have a higher level of obedience in a manner that is in its according with its weightier matters.

Paul never stopped identify as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6) and there were a number of other prominent Pharisees who became followers of Jesus, such as Nicodemus and Jospeh of Arimathea, as well as other Pharisees who were believers (Acts 15:5), and Pharisees are a Torah observant branch of Judaism. This also means that most of the NT was written by a Pharisee and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to follow the example of a Pharisee.

In Matthew 4, Jesus preceded his direct quotes from Scripture by saying "it is written...", but in Matthew 5, he preceded is quotes from what the people had heard being said by saying "you have heart that it was said...", so his emphasis on the form of communication is important. Jesus was fulfilling the law by correcting what the people had incorrectly heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally being said, so in Matthew 5:20 the reason why our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees was because they were incorrectly obeying the Torah.

 

[Soyeong]

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

How is, “it is finished” not “fulfilled”?
Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ is God and is omnipresent. So though there is a linear concept of time when He declared on earth
“ For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law,”

Yet simultaneously His Spirit is outside of time and all those things have been fulfilled and Faith grabs hold onto that reality.

For if all things had not been fulfilled concerning the law He wouldn’t of declared “it is finished”.

Yes, in the sense that y’all want to keep the new covenant under the old covenant.

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done and to correctly obey it, not to ending it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again refers to correctly obeying it, not to ending it. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles to obedience in word and deed, so it refers to fully preaching it, not to ending it. When a husband is fulfilling his marriage vows, he is correctly doing what he vowed to do, not ending his marriage.

Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it, so you should not interpret that as meaning essentially the same thing as abolishing it, especially when he also warned not to relax the least part of it. In Romans 3:31, Paul also confirmed that our faith does not abolish the Torah, but rather our faith upholds it. In Titus 2:14, it describes what Jesus finished on the cross by saying that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what he finished on the cross (Acts 21:20).

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Christ said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the Torah, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the Torah by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the Torah as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the Torah for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, our faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Torah is not too difficult to obey, in regard to saying that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with ending the Torah, but just the opposite. God's word can't be ended without also ending God's word made flesh.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the New Covenant involves the Spirit leading us to obey the Torah.

 

[HIM]

Did you tell us what legalists want Matt 5:20 to mean??

1. It appears that Jesus starts off by condemning anyone who claims He is teaching that God's Word should be set aside.

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law,
19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Is the " whoever keeps and teaches them, " group - the legalists you refer to ???

It seems to me that Matt 5:20 refers to the Gospel 2 Cor 5 detail that we find here -
in 2 Cor 5: 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Gal 2:20 "no longer I who live - but Christ that live IN me"
Rom 8:
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

1 John 5:4 "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep His Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Amen which brings us back to the question you were asked before. You quote for REV 14:12 saying "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Yet the text says. "faith of Jesus"

Big difference Bob. Do you see it and how it relates to Gal 2:20 KJV and Romans 8:3?

 

[WilliamK76]

Okay, just throwing this out there - if someone 'trusts' the untied states government,
then
goes driving thru a city , and does not stop at the red lights but drives right thru without stopping....

I definitely do not trust in the united states government lol. God please save us from the collective mindless herd of the sheeple lmbo

 

[B Griffin]

Or maybe He had a certain respect for the intensity of their convictions and their unwavering devotion to what they believed was the truth, though from His point of view of Being God it was completely wrong and full of hypocrisy?

No, Jesus did not have any respect for them or their practices. He knew their form of righteousness was not righteousness at all. This is their form of righteousness:

For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. (Ro 10:3)​

 

[WilliamK76]

Btw, I respect everyone’s beliefs and opinions in this thread though we are in debate mode lol. I pray that Yeshua Jesus blesses everyone is this thread amen.

 

[DamianWarS]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He was being both sacarasitic and was also pointing to a level of righteousness that is unobtainable by the natural. Following the law was the way of being righteous so those that kept the law the best would be the most righteous. This was the paraisees/scribes/etc... The irony is they were so focused on the rules they missed the point. But even with the right focus law itself is unable to save and whatever level of righteousness they could obtain was still not enough to save them. This creates a void that needed to be answered. If even the greatest amoung us cannot enter the kingdom of heaven (certainly there was some "good" Pharisees and scribes) or the only system we know isn't enough then who can?

This chanellges the status quo, the Pharisees and scribes can't even save themsevles so how can keeping their system any better help you or me? The law they keep that is meant to be the measure of righteousness only seems to condem us but it cannot save us?

The answer of course is Christ who is the one the law points to and who completes/fulfills and has perfect righteousness. Through Christ we may too be made holy as he is holy. So Christ exposes the system (as it was being followed) as flawed to show the void that only he can fill. As it turns out the system always pointed to Christ, so it's not the system that was flawed but those keeping it.

 

[Gary K]

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


There is no way that this verse can be taken in the sense that legalists are want to put it to support their doctrinal beliefs. For practically everything else that Jesus said to the Pharisees was completely contrary to such a declaration as this lol. Such as:

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,


Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.


Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Or maybe He had a certain respect for the intensity of their convictions and their unwavering devotion to what they believed was the truth, though from His point of view of Being God it was completely wrong and full of hypocrisy?

Or maybe He had such in mind as our beloved brother Paul when He made that statement, who would become the greatest apostle and evangelist for Christ this world has ever known? But that wasn’t because of Paul’s righteousness, but because of the Righteousness of Christ that was imputed by God into Paul’s account because he believed in Jesus, and was baptized into His Spirit.

Why would you think Jesus was being sarcastic? The Pharisees were the ones who murdered Him and persecuted and murdered His disciples. Wouldn't that necessitate those who make it to heaven being more righteous than they were?