Was Jesus and incompetant teacher?

[jorgfe]

Adventism teaches that there is more to the Gospel than what God revealed through Jesus.


It teaches that in order to be ready for Christ’s coming there must also be

• an eschatological gift of the Spirit (latter rain)
• an eschatological sealing of the saints which is something different than the saints have always enjoyed in the gospel

Thus Adventism

• waits for the final atonement
• waits for the investigative judgment
• waits for the latter rain
• waits for the special sealing to be placed on a community of perfect Adventists.

But God's Word tells us that the gospel Christ was sent to give is God’s final word, beyond which there is nothing to be said or experienced. There is no way of going on from hearing the gospel to some more profound or fuller knowledge of God.

Why didn't Jesus instruct His disciples that there was still more to add to the gospel when He gave them the Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28?

Was Jesus and incompetent teacher?

Gilbert Jorgensen

 

[Mankin]

Excellent point. That's the main reason why I disagree with all those doctrines of Adventism that you just mentioned. The problem with Adventism is that it depends too much on its eschatology and not enough on its sotoriety(please excuse my spelling). At times, especially in its Seal of the Sabbath doctrine, it combines the two into a mixture in which the SDA church is the virgin in white, the remnant.

In truth, the Adventist church has been left in the eschatological dust in comparison to the other evangelical counterparts. They are still bashing the pope, while the evangelicals are concerned about the EU and Islamists.

 

[JonMiller]

Adventism has a lot of things wrong.

One issue is that most people's faith lives are pretty simple. They don't spend much time studying about God or studying His Word (or the inspired book about our relation to Him).

And you know what, the important stuff isn't that complicated. Any denomination that places as key the complicated stuff that comes after complex interpretation, they might be right but what they are presenting isn't crucial.

And I was going to say, Jesus taught with parables because you can tell a lot more in a story then a summary or a statement. Many today don't see it this way and long for a set of simple statements. It is harder to really understand this way, which is why we have the Bible instead of the Torah (or some similar list of commands).

JM

 

[jorgfe]

And you know what, the important stuff isn't that complicated. Any denomination that places as key the complicated stuff that comes after complex interpretation, they might be right but what they are presenting isn't crucial.
JM

That is a profound statement!

I can't, for the life of me, see why it takes 28 Fundamental Beliefs to share the gospel with someone!

I guess when the process of adding to it starts, there is no stopping.

Another odd thing. When I was baptized November 23, 1963, there weren't 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Somehow Adventism just "grandfathers" all previous members into its new "fundamentals". If these are indeed "fundamental" beliefs -- that denominational employees are fired over -- how can this be?

The early Adventist pioneers, in my ancestry going back to William Farnsworth, were all avid Bible scholars. They endured hardship and made significant sacrifices to promote a gospel that they believed in. They were not afraid to change their views when Scripture showed they were wrong. Now SDA theology is locked in granite and fossilizing.

How do we jetson all the built-in heresy?

Gilbert Jorgensen

 

[StormyOne]

That is a profound statement!

I can't, for the life of me, see why it takes 28 Fundamental Beliefs to share the gospel with someone!

I guess when the process of adding to it starts, there is no stopping.

Another odd thing. When I was baptized November 23, 1963, there weren't 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Somehow Adventism just "grandfathers" all previous members into its new "fundamentals". If these are indeed "fundamental" beliefs -- that denominational employees are fired over -- how can this be?

The early Adventist pioneers, in my ancestry going back to William Farnsworth, were all avid Bible scholars. They endured hardship and made significant sacrifices to promote a gospel that they believed in. They were not afraid to change their views when Scripture showed they were wrong. Now SDA theology is locked in granite and fossilizing.

How do we jetson all the built-in heresy?

Gilbert Jorgensen

you jettison it by simply not allowing it to frame your point of reference.... the process varies from individual to individual... Are you ready to let it go?

 

[jorgfe]

you jettison it by simply not allowing it to frame your point of reference.... the process varies from individual to individual... Are you ready to let it go?

You and I would. That's why we left. Remember? I notice that you, too, display the Christian identity.

We are talking here about how to excise it from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Those who identify here with the SDA graphic are ones who still claim to be affiliated with Adventism.

The organization they identify with proposes to "save" all of us in their "end-times Noah's ark" -- while at the same time seeking acceptance from the very denominations identified as "harlots" of Babylon. Ultimate the SDA's here can't have it both ways.

Gilbert

 

[Avonia]

We are talking here about how to excise it from the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Why would you be interested in that? SDA beliefs are intrinsic to how SDAs know God. We are not our beliefs.

If you had been born in China, we would be having the same conversation, except you would have mistaken yourself for a Buddhist or Taoist. You would not BE that either.

 

[AzA]

We are talking here about how to excise it from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Those who identify here with the SDA graphic are ones who still claim to be affiliated with Adventism.

The organization they identify with proposes to "save" all of us in their "end-times Noah's ark"...

Meanwhile, you seem to have an ark of your own to bring them into.

If one no longer belongs to or identifies with an organization, why the attachment to what that org holds or does? It is like selling a coat to someone else but then calling it back to evaluate the seamwork. If you have sold your coat, let it go.

If you have not sold your coat and want to, you are free to.

 

[sentipente]

How do we jetson all the built-in heresy?

Gilbert Jorgensen

You concern me. You came here claiming that you had abandoned Adventism but now you seem to be saying that you are still attached to it. I would remind you of the NT saying that a dog does not go back to its vomit. Leave the vomit alone.

The question you should address is why do you believe that Elohim is an incompetent Creator.

 

[Joe67]

Brethren,

Remember he has just recently been pulled from the teat after having felt obligated to suck on it for so long, family and all. He can still feel the pleasantness of the mother of bondage.

jorgfe, may the faith of Jesus Christ and the grace of God our Father continue to guide you as you fight the good fight of faith to not be entangled with the elements of bondage; and to grow in grace unto the full stature of our high calling in Christ Jesus.

Joe

 

[AzA]

Joe -- this I well understand.
Break-ups are difficult, especially when one party perceives abuse.
In such situations, counselors recommend no contact. None.

Only after we have healed can we relate in ways that are healthful rather than destructive.

 

[jorgfe]

You concern me. You came here claiming that you had abandoned Adventism but now you seem to be saying that you are still attached to it. I would remind you of the NT saying that a dog does not go back to its vomit. Leave the vomit alone.

The question you should address is why do you believe that Elohim is an incompetent Creator.

Concern ...

Sorry to cause you stress!

Human minds vary the minds of different education and thought receive different impressions of the same words and it is difficult for one mind to give to a different temperament education and habits of thought by language exactly the same idea as that which his clear and distinct in his own mind.

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844​

 

[sentipente]

Human minds vary the minds of different education and thought receive different impressions of the same words and it is difficult for one mind to give to a different temperament education and habits of thought by language exactly the same idea as that which his clear and distinct in his own mind.

Understood and well stated. Now, are you ready to address why you believe that Elohim is an incompetent Creator?

 

[jorgfe]

Understood and well stated. Now, are you ready to address why you believe that Elohim is an incompetent Creator?

He was incompetant because He didn't go back to work on the 8th day of creation thereby giving Seventh-day Adventists the proof they need to support an everlasting 7th-day Sabbath that the whole universe (including "good old Enoch on Jupiter) keeps throughout all eternity.

He furthermore forgot to include in the Great Commission that the Real Test was going to be over the Sabbath, and that worshipping Him on Sunday would cause one to receive the Mark of the Beast.

He forgot to tell His disciples that he was only giving them part of the gospel. That the rest would be "put on ice" until after 1844, and that an Investigative Judgement would commence in 1844 but no one would be able to figure that out until Hirum Edson was given the golden plates by the angel Moroni .... sorry, wrong channel ... Hirum Edson was told in a cornfield in 1857 that in 1843 ... oops ... 1844 an Investigative Judgment started.

He forgot to tell Ellen White that she prayed to Satan for a month between September 22 and October 22, 1844.

He forgot to tell Ellen White that the purpose of Pentecost was not to point forward to 1844.

That should keep you busy for a while.

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844​

 

[AzA]

"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare to you."

Is this the incompetence you speak of, jorgfe? I'd be interested in your definition of incompetence -- especially for an educational context since that's the context in which Christ dealt with His disciples.

 

[sentipente]

Gilbert, you are a very angry man and it shows in your non-response to my question. I suggest professional assistance.

 

[djconklin]

Gilbert, you are a very angry man and it shows in your non-response to my question. I suggest professional assistance.

I agree with your assessment.
====

{From the OP:} Thus Adventism ...
waits for the special sealing to be placed on a community of perfect Adventists.

Not a teaching of the SDA church.

 

[Joe67]

But God's Word tells us that the gospel Christ was sent to give is God’s final word, beyond which there is nothing to be said or experienced. There is no way of going on from hearing the gospel to some more profound or fuller knowledge of God.
Gilbert Jorgensen

The free gift of justification is better than the works of the law.
The free gift of justification is the end of the law for righteousness.

The free gift of justification is the beginning of the better covenant.

Jesus, the captain of our salvation, is the author and finisher of our faith.
Law is not of faith. Law is not against faith(promise of God).
Law is a schoolmaster that leads to faith. Faith comes by hearing.

Now abides faith, hope and love. The greatest of these is love.
Where does hope fit into God's picture? How do we experience hope?
Faith can become "vain." How does faith become "vain." Faith can become wise in its conceits. How does this occur?

I am glad for a good beginning. I pray you do not fall off your horse backward when the adder in the path bites the back of your horse's heel.

I pray you endure unto the 2nd end foretold in 1 Corinthians 15:23-28.

Your fellow captive of Jesus Christ,
Joe