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Was Jesus a refugee? Al Sharpton thinks so, Fox News says no.

Martinius

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REACTION: Al Sharpton Slammed for Calling Jesus a 'Refugee'

Al Sharpton tweeted a few days back that American Christians going to church on Sunday should remember that Jesus was a refugee. Fox and Friends made fun of that statement and of Sharpton, and said that Jesus was not a refugee, according to the Bible.

Wasn't Jesus, along with Mary and Joseph, a refugee? Unless the Fox bible has excised a part of Luke's gospel, it sure looks like it to me.
 

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Martinius: "Wasn't Jesus, along with Mary and Joseph, a refugee? Unless the Fox bible has excised a part of Luke's gospel, it sure looks like it to me."

Luke's version of the Infancy Narrative reports Nazareth as the hometown of Joseph and Mary. The couple travels the 70 miles to Bethlehem only to register in the Roman census. This account assumes that Bethlehem is the town of Joseph's ancestors. After the couple registers and after Jesus' birth, Jesus is dedicated in the Jerusalem Temple and Joseph and Mary return to their home town, Nazareth. No refugee status is implied in Luke's version.

Matthew's version does not identify Nazareth as the home town of Joseph and Mary prior to Jesus' birth. Rather, it locates them in a Bethlehem "house," thus creating the impression that the house is theirs. This impression is strengthened by the fact that the couple feels forced to flee to Nazareth after their initial flight to Egypt to escape potential persecution from Herod's successor. Their "flight" to Nazareth seems to imply that they are refugees for Matthew, though not for Luke.

In Matthew the flight of Joseph and Mary first to Egypt, then to Nazareth, results from the publicity generated by the Magi that the wandering "star" they are following signifies the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem. Herod reacts by slaughtering "the innocents" in Bethlehem. Vut Luke knows nothing of the story of the Magi and the star of Bethlehem. Luke's report that the couple have Jesus dedicated in the Jerusalem Temple seems unlikely, if Matthew is correct that they flee to Nazareth to evade persecution. So some skillful harmonization is required if both the Matthean and Lucan Infancy Narratives are taken as completely factual.
 
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Davidnic

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REACTION: Al Sharpton Slammed for Calling Jesus a 'Refugee'

Al Sharpton tweeted a few days back that American Christians going to church on Sunday should remember that Jesus was a refugee. Fox and Friends made fun of that statement and of Sharpton, and said that Jesus was not a refugee, according to the Bible.

Wasn't Jesus, along with Mary and Joseph, a refugee? Unless the Fox bible has excised a part of Luke's gospel, it sure looks like it to me.

Well the Church would and has classified them as refugees in constant teaching.

To the point where it was the title on the main papal writing on migrants and refugees: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/p12exsul.htm

And the USCCB has used the Holy Family as the image of that dept...adding something last week to that image:

r3BHPRXH.png
 
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Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem (in Judah – southern kingdom) from Nazareth (in Israel – northern kingdom), to register for the census as was required of them (not as refugees). However, after Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem “they became refugees” when an angel of the Lord told them to take baby Jesus to Egypt to escape Herod. As an adult, Jesus once went to the region of Tyre after having trouble with the Pharisees. But, regardless of the order of details, these could hardly be equated with the refugee situation today. . . as neither place likely provided a thing for them, other than a safe location of course, and there was no mass migration involved.
 
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Martinius

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Luke's version of the Infancy Narrative reports Nazareth as the hometown of Joseph and Mary. The couple travels the 70 miles to Bethlehem only to register in the Roman census. This account assumes that Bethlehem is the town of Joseph's ancestors. After the couple registers and after Jesus' birth, Jesus is dedicated in the Jerusalem Temple and Joseph and Mary return to their home town, Nazareth. No refugee status is implied in Luke's version.

Matthew's version does not identify Nazareth as the home town of Joseph and Mary prior to Jesus' birth. Rather, it locates them in a Bethlehem "house," thus creating the impression that the house is theirs. This impression is strengthened by the fact that the couple feels forced to flee to Nazareth after their initial flight to Egypt to escape potential persecution from Herod's successor. Their "flight" to Nazareth seems to imply that they are refugees for Matthew, though not for Luke.

In Matthew the flight of Joseph and Mary first to Egypt, then to Nazareth, results from the publicity generated by the Magi that the wandering "star" they are following signifies the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem. Herod reacts by slaughtering "the innocents" in Bethlehem. Vut Luke knows nothing of the story of the Magi and the star of Bethlehem. Luke's report that the couple have Jesus dedicated in the Jerusalem Temple seems unlikely, if Matthew is correct that they flee to Nazareth to evade persecution. So some skillful harmonization is required if both the Matthean and Lucan Infancy Narratives are taken as completely factual.
:( I don't know why I said Luke when I know the flight to Egypt is in Matthew. Thanks for the correction.
 
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Martinius

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Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem (in Judah – southern kingdom) from Nazareth (in Israel – northern kingdom), to register for the census as was required of them (not as refugees). However, after Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem “they became refugees” when an angel of the Lord told them to take baby Jesus to Egypt to escape Herod. As an adult, Jesus once went to the region of Tyre after having trouble with the Pharisees. But, regardless of the order of details, these could hardly be equated with the refugee situation today. . . as neither place likely provided a thing for them, other than a safe location of course, and there was no mass migration involved.
Refugee is defined as: a person who flees for refuge or safety, especially to a foreign country, as in times of political upheaval, war, etc.

So, based on those criteria, Joseph, Mary and Jesus were refugees, fleeing to Egypt for their safety, in a time of upheaval (Herod's attempt to kill him by slaughtering innocent children).

As David has posted, the Catholic Church considers the Holy Family to have been refugees, and uses a graphic of the Holy Family as a symbol for their refugee program. Works for me.
 
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Refugee is defined as: a person who flees for refuge or safety, especially to a foreign country, as in times of political upheaval, war, etc.

So, based on those criteria, Joseph, Mary and Jesus were refugees, fleeing to Egypt for their safety, in a time of upheaval (Herod's attempt to kill him by slaughtering innocent children).

As David has posted, the Catholic Church considers the Holy Family to have been refugees, and uses a graphic of the Holy Family as a symbol for their refugee program. Works for me.

I agree... as I said "they became refugees". I just pointed to reasons why I think that situation cannot be fully equated to today's refugee situation.
 
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Martinius

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I agree... as I said "they became refugees". I just pointed to reasons why I think that situation cannot be fully equated to today's refugee situation.
Okay, sorry, that was not clear to me. It doesn't have to be equivalent to be considered in the category. The Fox and Friends crew were chortling over the very idea that the Holy Family as refugees was in the Bible, and made fun of Sharpton, who said nothing wrong. These people don't seem to be very bright or very nice.
 
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Fish and Bread

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The Fox and Friends crew were chortling over the very idea that the Holy Family as refugees was in the Bible, and made fun of Sharpton, who said nothing wrong.

People sometimes forget that Al Sharpton is actually THE REVEREND Al Sharpton. Secular media personalities might want to think twice before assuming he got something about the bible wrong. That's not to say he's infallible, but he did go to seminary- the Fox and Friends crew probably should have checked their facts before chortling. Of course, Fox and Friends in general is very poor on fact checking. They're sad some horrible things over the years that were completely untrue- not issues of opinion, they were just flat out inaccurate. And we're not talking about like reading the wrong statistics because they were squinting at the teleprompter- we're talking like whole long segments about events that didn't happen.

Fox and Friends is so bad that even Donald Trump watches Morning Joe on MSNBC instead. And when Donald Trump of all people (He who's advisers introduced the phrase "alternative facts" into the popular lexicon) thinks some people on the right-wing are playing too fast and loose with the facts, well, that speaks for itself.

Anyway, to address the question posed by this thread, yes, Jesus absolutely was a refugee in Egypt. He and his family were fleeing their home country to escape persecution from a King who ordered all children of Jesus' age killed. That's almost the definition of refugee. If Mary, Joseph, and Jesus came to a country today seeking asylum, they would immediately be classified as refugees under almost any nation's system. They weren't in Egypt because Joseph was looking for a job or Mary liked the cuisine- they were in Egypt because the Romans wanted to kill their child, who was with them.

I think that situation is very similar to people fleeing from warzones because they think they will be killed for their faith- not just Christians, but also Yazidis, Sufi Muslims, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]te Muslims, moderate and ethnically Kurdish Sunnis, etc. or killed because they are in the middle of a warzone. Some of the people fleeing were even translators or people who otherwise worked for the US and allied forces and would be tortured or killed by ISIS for that reason if they remained. We have an ethical obligation to keep these people safe by granting them sanctuary until such a time as their countries of origin are safe for them to live in again. We broke it, we bought it.

Now, to be fair, I did notice someone alluding to the idea that the Holy Family's flight to Egypt may be ahistorical. That is to say, there isn't much historical evidence from secular that Herod ever ordered all the male infants under a certain age killed around the time of the birth of Christ- and an event that big would likely be recorded by all kinds of secular historians, we'd find remnants of the scrolls issuing the orders and of contemporary people mentioning losing their children, etc., and that stuff just doesn't seem to exist.

However, it really doesn't matter whether it happened or didn't happen. The story illustrates an important moral truth for us, I think.
 
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Martinius

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I watched the video again, and realized that the Fox and Friends crew were thinking of the journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Even there they had it wrong, saying they were traveling to "pay their taxes". In Luke, Joseph and Mary go to Bethlehem to "enroll"; this was a census. Nothing about paying taxes. They totally ignored the journey to Egypt as related in Matthew. This is not a bright group.
 
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