Was Jesus a meanie?

[MattRose]

I just read a verse in the NT that surprised me. Do christians think everything Jesus did during his life was 100% correct? Did He ever lose His temper and do something wrong? I'll soon post the passage that appears to show he was a meanie (at least once), but I want to get some input from His people first.

 

[elman]

I just read a verse in the NT that surprised me. Do christians think everything Jesus did during his life was 100% correct? Did He ever lose His temper and do something wrong? I'll soon post the passage that appears to show he was a meanie (at least once), but I want to get some input from His people first.

Losing your temper or acting on your temper is not always mean or wrong if done without losing control and for a specific purpose.

 

[AlexBP]

The common objections that I've heard raised against Jesus were (1) he believed that Hell exists and that some people will go there (2) the "woes" he pronounced against several cities in Luke 10 (3) calling gentiles "dogs" in Matthew 15 (4) calling Pharisees and scribes "hypocrites" and other insults, repeatedly.

Number 3 is a red herring. If we look at the entire passage in which that occurs:

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

So we see that was an instance in which Jesus did reach out to a non-Jew and heal a sick person. Verse 26 looks, most likely, like a test of faith.

On the other issues, I once felt very negative about those things but later came to understand that my feelings were a product of how I was brought up. In modern-day America we are constantly bombarded by advertisements tellings us that we deserve to get anything we want. We have a self-esteem movement which says that we should always try to make everyone feel as good as possible no matter what they do. We have schools which have allowed grade inflation to the point where kids can pass with virtually no knowledge or skills. Everything about our society is designed to ensure that we never have to hear anything bad about ourselves and that we should feel good about whatever we choose to do. But the truth is that not everything we do is good, so the modern-day attitude that criticism, response, and punishment is always bad is not a valid response. Hence the idea that Jesus was a meanie because he criticized and warned of punishment doesn't hold water.

 

[MattRose]

What I found is not earth shattering and I'm sure many here are familiar with the verses. To me it does seem indefensible, but that won't stop people from trying. I also chose the word "meanie" specifically because it's more of a temper tantrum than a schism in high church dogma.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

It would help if you posted the verses you are referring to because otherwise I don't really have any idea what you're talking about.

Was Jesus a meanie? I personally don't think so. I think he said some tough things that really challenged the thinknig of the day that may have offended people. He got mad in the temple that one time, but it wasn't some uncontrollable fit or rage, he was using that instance to prove a point. And, if people are doing something wrong, then it is warranted to do something to get their attention to make them notice they are doing something wrong.

 

[Supreme]

You mean when He drove people away from the Temple?

That wasn't mean. It was just. Justice and meanness are actually polar opposites.

 

[meep18]

I'd say "no, Jesus wasn't a meanie". Though I can see why someone might think so.
Jesus could see inside the heart so he knew who was evil or hypocritcal and who wasn't. (John 16:30)
Unfortunately we don't have this same knowledge. (1 Corinthians 4:5)
Though we are told to judge others with "righteous judgement". (John 7:24)
So although, it made sense for Jesus to call out someone like this, it wouldn't make sense for us to and it'd be akin to the sin of murder. (Matthew 5:21-22)

 

[salida]

He showed righteous justice against the wicked.

 

[MattRose]

Ok, here's the anticlimatic reveal. Drum roll please..tata tata rata tat tat

Matthew 21
17And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
18Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

I've found the smoking gun! What say you now followers of the anti-arborist?

 

[AlexBP]

I've sometimes speculated that moral of the fig tree episode is that if you're feeling angry, it's better to take out your anger on an object rather than to let it simmer or explode in a way that hurts people. But that's just my view; it's not very mainstream.

 

[MattRose]

I've sometimes speculated that moral of the fig tree episode is that if you're feeling angry, it's better to take out your anger on an object rather than to let it simmer or explode in a way that hurts people. But that's just my view; it's not very mainstream.

Well I predicted earlier in this thread that people would try to defend Christ's tantrum. Let's see if there are any more plausible explanations out there. I personally think this is why most christians don't cotton to "tree huggers".

 

[elman]

Ok, here's the anticlimatic reveal. Drum roll please..tata tata rata tat tat

Matthew 21
17And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
18Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

I've found the smoking gun! What say you now followers of the anti-arborist?

I think this story is also about our having the responsbility to love others and if we do we will not have any hope of receiving the free gift of eternal life. In other words we must use this life we have been gifted with to produce the fruit of becoming loving and if we do not do that our destiny is death.

 

[solarwave]

Yeah I think the above is a good understanding.

It is our job to do good things with our life, and if we don't there isn't much point in our existance.

It could be seen as the judgement of God after death.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Jesus was often unkind to those He thought were hypocritical and He could be considered sharp tongued and mean by the ones who angered Him. We believe God could not be mean but remember He was also fully human so why should it not be the case that He would act in a human way.

 

[ElijahW]

Ok, here's the anticlimatic reveal. Drum roll please..tata tata rata tat tat

Matthew 21
17And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
18Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

I've found the smoking gun! What say you now followers of the anti-arborist?

The fig tree is commonly thought to be representative of Israel. I'm in a small minority that thinks this episode is actually directed at Buddhism and the tree that the Buddha was supposed to have gained his wisdom under. Here he is saying that the tree is fruitless (useless) and not in season (not fully developed) and is cursed because of it. It's certainly not directed at a actual tree in particular or trees in general.

 

[ebia]

Read Mark's account of the story, because he makes it clearer. In Mark the fig tree sandwiches the judgement on the Temple. I.e. the judgement on the fig tree is an enacted parable of the judgement the Temple is under.

 

[MattRose]

I think the fig tree parable is relating something that must have been obvious to the group who assembled the books of the bible, but is mostly lost on us. If they decided to include it in the bible then they thought it was useful. I'm not sure any of the interpretations offered here make much sense, but 2000 years ago people probably nodded and smiled when they read it. Maybe you just had to be there.

 

[ebia]

How does an enacted parable not make any sense? That's what it is - Mark doesn't create his sandwich stories for nothing.

 

[Chesterton]

I think the fig tree parable is relating something that must have been obvious to the group who assembled the books of the bible, but is mostly lost on us. If they decided to include it in the bible then they thought it was useful. I'm not sure any of the interpretations offered here make much sense, but 2000 years ago people probably nodded and smiled when they read it. Maybe you just had to be there.

As Christ stated elsewhere, in this life we humans are supposed to produce fruit: love and good works and all that. This shows what may happen if we don't.

 

[MattRose]

How does an enacted parable not make any sense? That's what it is - Mark doesn't create his sandwich stories for nothing.

Mark 11 with several verses before and after the fig massacre:
11And Jesus went into Jerusalem and entered the temple [[b]enclosure]; and when He had looked around, surveying and observing everything, as it was already late, He went out to Bethany together with the Twelve [apostles].

12On the day following, when they had come away from Bethany, He was hungry.
13And seeing in the distance a fig tree [covered] with leaves, He went to see if He could find any [fruit] on it [[c]for in the fig tree the fruit appears at the same time as the leaves]. But when He came up to it, He found nothing but leaves, for the fig season had not yet come.
14And He said to it, No one ever again shall eat fruit from you. And His disciples were listening [to what He said].
15And they came to Jerusalem. And He went into the temple [area, the [d]porches and courts] and began to drive out those who sold and bought in the temple area, and He overturned the [[e]four-footed] tables of the money changers and the seats of those who dealt in doves;
16And He would not permit anyone to carry any household equipment through the temple enclosure [thus making the temple area a short-cut traffic lane].
17And He taught and said to them, Is it not written, My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations? But you have turned it into a den of robbers.(B)
18And the chief priests and the scribes heard [of this] and kept seeking some way to destroy Him, for they feared Him, because the entire multitude was struck with astonishment at His teaching.
19And when evening came on, He and [f]His disciples, as accustomed, went out of the city.
20In the morning, when they were passing along, they noticed that the fig tree was withered [completely] away to its roots.
21And Peter remembered and said to Him, Master, look! The fig tree which You doomed has withered away!
22And Jesus, replying, said to them, Have faith in God [constantly].
23Truly I tell you, whoever says to this mountain, Be lifted up and thrown into the sea! and does not doubt at all in his heart but believes that what he says will take place, it will be done for him.
24For this reason I am telling you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe (trust and be confident) that it is granted to you, and you will [get it].
25And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him and [g]let it drop (leave it, let it go), in order that your Father Who is in heaven may also forgive you your [own] failings and shortcomings and let them drop.26[h]But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your failings and shortcomings.

I missed it apparently. The fig tree seems unrelated to the temple. Please show me what you mean.