Was Azusa fable or fact?

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JimB

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All of my Christian life I have read about the “Azusa Revival” in Los Angeles c.1906, which has become heralded by Pentecostals as the birth of the modern Pentecostal Movement. I have come to believe that we are as much a victim of myth as we are the beneficiaries of history. History is not an exact science, it is the product of its most vocal interpreters, so we only know about Azusa from what we have been told. The best we can do is go back to the primary sources of eyewitnesses, on all sides of the issue, and try to interpret the event for ourselves. And first-hand reports from the period are, at best, mixed.

I am bringing the following post from another thread to open Azusa to discussion by Spirit-filled believers:




While a lot of good and a wonderful movement arose from Azusa Street, it still may not have been all it is now being reported and promoted as being.

Apparently, some Pentecostal leaders (especially in the AG) seem to want to build a cult devotion to what they consider the watershed event of their movement, the so-called “Azusa Revival”. For reasons unknown, the “revival” has been mythologized by its defenders beyond the point of reality and needs another, more objective and certainly more honest appraisal, before Pentecostals rush blindly to its defense.

Eyewitness detractors of Azusa, whose testimonies did not support the “revival” (who are sternly disregarded by Pentecostals because they do not support the myth of Azusa), are ridiculed by Azusa’s modern defenders as men who lacked the Spirit of God. Still it is these men’s books that line the shelves of Pentecostal preachers (men like C. Campbell Morgan, R. A. Torrey, H. A. Ironside, and Clarence Larkin among them, all of whom found the Azusa meetings less than what they were reported by their promoters to be.)

Some of their eyewitness reports said the meetings were shocking.
  • Larkin saying that “in the conduct of those possessed [with the Holy Spirit] is more a characteristic of demon possession, than a work of the Holy Spirit.”
  • W.B. Godbey said the building was filled with “jugglers(?), necromancers, enchanters, magicians”.
  • Ironside was concerned that Azusa was causing a "heavy toll of lunacy and infidelity."
  • Torrey’s eyewitness charge was that the whole thing as “founded by a sodomite”.
  • And Morgan was so turned-off by what he witnessed that he called Azusa “the last vomit of Satan.”
  • Charles Parham, who I thought was too-highly revered by Pentecostal leaders as the father of modern Pentecostalism (although with less enthusiasm than in the past, as news of Parham’s character becomes more widely known) and who was a big player at Azusa, was legally charged (but not convicted) of sodomy in Texas, 1907. Parham was also an avowed racist and member of the KKK whose anti-black feelings toward the pastor of the Azusa mission, William Seymour, a black man, may have inspired him to want to take leadership of the meetings away from him.
  • Even Parham found the meetings to be a bit too much. According to Pentecostal historian Dr. Vinson Synan, when Parham visited the [Azusa] meetings in October 1906, he was shocked by the confusion of the services. He was dismayed by the "awful fits and spasms" of the "holy rollers and hypnotists." He described the Azusa "tongues" as "chattering, jabbering and sputtering, speaking no language at all. The Azusa Street meetings were so wild that Parham condemned them with the term "sensational Holy Rollers." He testified that the Azusa Street meetings were largely characterized by manifestations of the flesh, spiritualistic controls, and the practice of hypnotism according to Parham’s wife, Sarah, in her book The Life of Charles F. Parham, 1930, p. 163). According to Parham, two-thirds of the people professing Pentecostalism in his day "are either hypnotized or spook driven" (p. 164). In his writings about Azusa Street, Parham described men and women falling on one another in a morally compromising manner.
Throughout the two-year-long revival, divisiveness and control issues were its hallmark.

Even when I was AG, I did not swallow the Azusa myth as it was promoted by the denomination. Having investigated both sides of the issue (which a true devotee is never supposed to do), I found that some good resulted from the meetings but on the other side, well …

\o/




 

psalms 91

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Like many things in the church today I am sure that some flesh was involved but it is not for me to judge but to let the Holy Spirit deal with it. There were many manifestations that were of the Holy Spirit and many miracles performed there and it is dangerous to label any move of God with the label of Satan, I would be very careful with that. Yes, there were problems and man did get in the way which is what finally shut it down and caused the Spirit to not move like it had been but it was one of the greatest revivals in the history of the church.
 
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JimB

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IMO, God performs miracles not because of us but usually in spite of us. Signs and wonders confirm the Word, not our theology or group. I think God performed miracles at Azusa (if in fact He did) in spite of the “revival”. At least, that’s what primary sources seem to indicate.

\o/

 
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Jimmy West

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Jim M said:
All of my Christian life I have read about the “Azusa Revival” in Los Angeles c.1906, which has become heralded by Pentecostals as the birth of the modern Pentecostal Movement. I have come to believe that we are as much a victim of myth as we are the beneficiaries of history. History is not an exact science, it is the product of its most vocal interpreters, so we only know about Azusa from what we have been told. The best we can do is go back to the primary sources of eyewitnesses, on all sides of the issue, and try to interpret the event for ourselves. And first-hand reports from the period are, at best, mixed.

I am bringing the following post from another thread to open Azusa to discussion by Spirit-filled believers:





While a lot of good and a wonderful movement arose from Azusa Street, it still may not have been all it is now being reported and promoted as being.


Apparently, some Pentecostal leaders (especially in the AG) seem to want to build a cult devotion to what they consider the watershed event of their movement, the so-called “Azusa Revival”. For reasons unknown, the “revival” has been mythologized by its defenders beyond the point of reality and needs another, more objective and certainly more honest appraisal, before Pentecostals rush blindly to its defense.

Eyewitness detractors of Azusa, whose testimonies did not support the “revival” (who are sternly disregarded by Pentecostals because they do not support the myth of Azusa), are ridiculed by Azusa’s modern defenders as men who lacked the Spirit of God. Still it is these men’s books that line the shelves of Pentecostal preachers (men like C. Campbell Morgan, R. A. Torrey, H. A. Ironside, and Clarence Larkin among them, all of whom found the Azusa meetings less than what they were reported by their promoters to be.)

Some of their eyewitness reports said the meetings were shocking.
  • Larkin saying that “in the conduct of those possessed [with the Holy Spirit] is more a characteristic of demon possession, than a work of the Holy Spirit.”
  • W.B. Godbey said the building was filled with “jugglers(?), necromancers, enchanters, magicians”.
  • Ironside was concerned that Azusa was causing a "heavy toll of lunacy and infidelity."
  • Torrey’s eyewitness charge was that the whole thing as “founded by a sodomite”.
  • And Morgan was so turned-off by what he witnessed that he called Azusa “the last vomit of Satan.”
  • Charles Parham, who I thought was too-highly revered by Pentecostal leaders as the father of modern Pentecostalism (although with less enthusiasm than in the past, as news of Parham’s character becomes more widely known) and who was a big player at Azusa, was legally charged (but not convicted) of sodomy in Texas, 1907. Parham was also an avowed racist and member of the KKK whose anti-black feelings toward the pastor of the Azusa mission, William Seymour, a black man, may have inspired him to want to take leadership of the meetings away from him.
  • Even Parham found the meetings to be a bit too much. According to Pentecostal historian Dr. Vinson Synan, when Parham visited the [Azusa] meetings in October 1906, he was shocked by the confusion of the services. He was dismayed by the "awful fits and spasms" of the "holy rollers and hypnotists." He described the Azusa "tongues" as "chattering, jabbering and sputtering, speaking no language at all. The Azusa Street meetings were so wild that Parham condemned them with the term "sensational Holy Rollers." He testified that the Azusa Street meetings were largely characterized by manifestations of the flesh, spiritualistic controls, and the practice of hypnotism according to Parham’s wife, Sarah, in her book The Life of Charles F. Parham, 1930, p. 163). According to Parham, two-thirds of the people professing Pentecostalism in his day "are either hypnotized or spook driven" (p. 164). In his writings about Azusa Street, Parham described men and women falling on one another in a morally compromising manner.
Throughout the two-year-long revival, divisiveness and control issues were its hallmark.

Even when I was AG, I did not swallow the Azusa myth as it was promoted by the denomination. Having investigated both sides of the issue (which a true devotee is never supposed to do), I found that some good resulted from the meetings but on the other side, well …

\o/







I would ignore those opinions. They were obviously by people who did not understand what they were seeing or experiencing. There are different levels of pentacostalism and these different levels include different levels of spiritual manifestation. The Holy Spirit is not going to give the same level of manifestation to every house. Spiritual manifestation is a result of the desire and ability of those present to handle the presence and be blessed by it.
 
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JimB

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Jimmy West said:
I would ignore those opinions. They were obviously by people who did not understand what they were seeing or experiencing. There are different levels of pentacostalism and these different levels include different levels of spiritual manifestation. The Holy Spirit is not going to give the same level of manifestation to every house. Spiritual manifestation is a result of the desire and ability of those present to handle the presence and be blessed by it.
Why should I ignore everyone except those who see things like I do? That is not wanting to know the truth, it is only wanting my prejudices confirmed. I think sometimes we need to listen to our detractors.

IMO.

\o/

 
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AudioArtist

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Well, to be honest, I've seen those criticisms aimed towards anything to do with manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Maybe there were demonic elements, but the majoirty of people I know would counter what is said in the OP on the whole-and those comments are not very different to how cessationists would treat even the more calm pentecostal experiences today, anyway.
 
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JimB

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AudioArtist said:
Well, to be honest, I've seen those criticisms aimed towards anything to do with manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Maybe there were demonic elements, but the majoirty of people I know would counter what is said in the OP on the whole-and those comments are not very different to how cessationists would treat even the more calm pentecostal experiences today, anyway.
I am not a c essationist and I used to “counter” objections, too, AA, until I really wanted to know the truth without my Pentecostal prejudices dictating what I should accept/reject. I am really trying to be as objective as possible in assessing what happens. It is too easy to let our experience (or doctrine) dictate our theology. Pure theology, IMO, should be objective, not biased in either direction. Just because we don’t it like does not make it untrue.

\o/

 
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AudioArtist

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Jim M said:
I am not a c essationist and I used to “counter” objections, too, AA, until I really wanted to know the truth without my Pentecostal prejudices dictating what I should accept/reject. I am really trying to be as objective as possible in assessing what happens. It is too easy to let our experience (or doctrine) dictate our theology. Pure theology, IMO, should be objective, not biased in either direction. Just because we don’t it like does not make it untrue.

\o/

I know you believe in the gifts, I was speaking about the people you quoted. But maybe I was in error, and they were in fact believers in the spiritual gifts.

Like I've said before, I haven't seen any madness during a reivival or whatnot-the most "extreme" cases were people falling to the floor under God's power, and some shaking here and there.
 
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merryheart

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Like the Toronto blessing, and many other similar movements - the wheat and tares grow together. There are real manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and there are counterfeit manifestations - being fleshly exercises for attention, or even demonic activity growing together. That is why it is necessary to walk in the Spirit, so that you will know which is which, and what to submit yourself to.
 
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AudioArtist

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Yes, Satan hopes to taint the Holy Spirit's work-and judging by the amount of Christians who believe that these things are almost entirely of Satan and/or psychology, we are making it too easy for him. We need to speak rationally, intelligently, and most importantly-lovingly-towards those who oppose the gifts. I think truth is logically knowable; and we must try to show how illogical it is to say all of these matters are works of the enemy, or works of the flesh.
 
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Leimeng

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~ Azusa Street was an interesting event but I was not there so I cannot totally judge it. I know there are heretics who say that my speaking in toungues is an indication of me being demon possessed. I wont loose sleep over it. The individuals at Azusa street have no bearing on my present day relationship with Christ.
~ The legal definition of sodomy is any position or act other than the standard 'missionary position' for sex. People have been charged with and convicted of sodomy with their wives because of this. The inclusion of a statement about someone being 'legally charged' with sodomy in Texas is a red herring and has no basis on an discussion about a group of Christians in Southern California. The same with the charge of racism and the KKK. The Southern Baptist demonination was founded specifically over the issue of supporting slavery. Does that change the (scant) good works the Southern Baptists have done? No.
~ On the Day of Pentacost the disciples and followers of Jesus were accused of being drunk because of their behavior after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Pentecostals are still accused of such in their meetings.
~ While it is important to have historical accuracy in our perceptions of past events, we have to look at ALL sides equally critically. Accusers, observers, participants and apologists alike need to be held under the same microscope.
~ Additionally, the only life we should ultimately base our own lives on is Jesus.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
 
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Svt4Him

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aving investigated both sides of the issue (which a true devotee is never supposed to do)

Sorry, who is suppose to do what? No matter if history is incorrect, you will tend to believe those who support your predisposition. Personally I could care less about it as it was in the past, I was not there, and it really does nothing to help me reach the kids in my neighborhood, so I fail to see why I am suppose to examine both sides of the story.
 
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Jimmy West

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Leimeng said:
~ Azusa Street was an interesting event but I was not there so I cannot totally judge it. I know there are heretics who say that my speaking in toungues is an indication of me being demon possessed. I wont loose sleep over it. The individuals at Azusa street have no bearing on my present day relationship with Christ.
~ The legal definition of sodomy is any position or act other than the standard 'missionary position' for sex. People have been charged with and convicted of sodomy with their wives because of this. The inclusion of a statement about someone being 'legally charged' with sodomy in Texas is a red herring and has no basis on an discussion about a group of Christians in Southern California. The same with the charge of racism and the KKK. The Southern Baptist demonination was founded specifically over the issue of supporting slavery. Does that change the (scant) good works the Southern Baptists have done? No.
~ On the Day of Pentacost the disciples and followers of Jesus were accused of being drunk because of their behavior after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Pentecostals are still accused of such in their meetings.
~ While it is important to have historical accuracy in our perceptions of past events, we have to look at ALL sides equally critically. Accusers, observers, participants and apologists alike need to be held under the same microscope.
~ Additionally, the only life we should ultimately base our own lives on is Jesus.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

Now, that is WISDOM!
 
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Father Rick

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For anyone interested in getting a really good perspective of the Azusa Street revival, I would highly recommend reading "Like as of Fire". It's about 2 years worth of the Azusa Street Mission newspaper, reprinted exactly as it was and bound together as a book (like a Xerox copy of the paper). It simply records the various instances going on in the services, testimonies, etc.

Personally, I found it highly intriguing to read the 'first hand' accounts of what went on. Some of the things recorded in it are wonderful testimonies of God at work. Other things, most today would find to be quite extreme to say the least.
 
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JimB

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Svt4Him said:
Sorry, who is suppose to do what? No matter if history is incorrect, you will tend to believe those who support your predisposition. Personally I could care less about it as it was in the past, I was not there, and it really does nothing to help me reach the kids in my neighborhood, so I fail to see why I am suppose to examine both sides of the story.
History doesn’t matter!?!?!?! And I suuppose integrity in interpreting the past is incidental?

\o/

 
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NewSong

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Personally, I have met children who remember their parents and grandparents who were products of the Azusa street and I have heard what it done in their lives and to their lives and I believe that it was fact....I also probably have a lot of the same material that a lot of other people do regarding some of the accounts of the revival and some of the negativity and different perspectives but since I do have a personal friend in his 70's who remembers his mom and grandma and what they gave for accounts and being a part of it, I am taking my friends word for it and also because he is credible in every other way as well. I SAY FACT.
 
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BillynJennifer

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If Hank Hannegraf (sp?) came into a typical Pentecostal service, he would surely go out saying the same things about that service that were said about the Azuza meetings.

Each person is entitled to their own opinion about what is and what is not, and we will never agree on everything...

One's laughter and joy and such other manifestations may offend someone, but that someone's standing with arms crossed dissecting everyone around may offend another. We have to learn that we ARE God's children and we will one day serve Him around His throne, TOGETHER...
 
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Svt4Him

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Jim M said:
History doesn’t matter!?!?!?! And I suuppose integrity in interpreting the past is incidental?

\o/

Sorry, where exactly did I say history doesn't matter again? I said if it was incorrect, and I'm talking about any version of histor (but the point was not that there are correct and incorrect), we will believe what we want to believe and fits our bent, regardless of it's truth. So you post a link it was bad, I'll post a link it was good, and in the end it makes no difference. As for integrity, you will find your sources have more weight because you use your understanding or dogma as the source of integrity by which to measure it by.

But you failed to answer my question. See the post puts people who don't agree with you as blind. So where exactly do we find we are not suppose to examine what we believe?
 
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