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Warz..Right or wrong?
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seebs
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If you mean "warez", then, wrong. You have no inherent right to someone else's creative work; if you don't like the terms they offer it under, you can always do something else.
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Depends. Some creators actually don't care if their work is pirated. They view as the more people exposed to their work, the more overall sales they'll likely experience. Now, bean-counters have a slightly different view...
But basically, the whole "digital piracy" issue is not as b&w as some people might think it is.
But basically, the whole "digital piracy" issue is not as b&w as some people might think it is.
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seebs
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Here's the deal: If they approve of it, *it's not piracy*. Go look at the Baen free library; they *GIVE AWAY* many of their books, and they rake in money doing it.
However, that said, they have the *right* to decide how, or whether, to make their work available. If I don't want to deal with their terms, I make do without their work.
What's interesting is that the Baen people, not to mention Janis Ian (a musician), have demonstrated quite nicely that free copies actually help sales - so in the long run, I think a lot of companies will adopt more open policies towards copying.
But, until they do, it's their moral right to say "no". The creator of a thing has the inherent right to determine the terms of its existance.
However, that said, they have the *right* to decide how, or whether, to make their work available. If I don't want to deal with their terms, I make do without their work.
What's interesting is that the Baen people, not to mention Janis Ian (a musician), have demonstrated quite nicely that free copies actually help sales - so in the long run, I think a lot of companies will adopt more open policies towards copying.
But, until they do, it's their moral right to say "no". The creator of a thing has the inherent right to determine the terms of its existance.
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seebs
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I dunno. I mean, as a person who makes a living selling intellectual property, I don't like the idea of people declaring, unilaterally, that they're entitled to take my stuff on whatever terms they want.
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paulewog
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Regarding AOE's post - it's only ok to do that if you OWN it already, i.e., you bought it. Sorta like music CDs, you can copy them for your own use, but nothing past that.
Hm, some people put up their games or whatever to download for free, er, it's no longer warez then
I always thought of the definition of "warez" as an "illegally copied game" or hacked/cracked. ..
Hm, some people put up their games or whatever to download for free, er, it's no longer warez then
I always thought of the definition of "warez" as an "illegally copied game" or hacked/cracked. ..
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seebs
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FWIW, everything I do is pretty much given away, except for the day job stuff. I write articles for pay, but generally I reserve copyright, so I can put up copies on my home page.
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Actually, I wasn't referring to freeware. I was referring to the more complicated case of licensed material being held by a publisher or distributor (the copyright holder) versus the actual creator, who in some cases will give "silent" consent to digital piracy.
There are various examples of this ranging from unlicensed works based on someone else's intellectual property, abandonware, copy protection removal (which is a license violation), and modern day software piracy.
I guess if you want to argue straight from the letter of the law, then yes, piracy is wrong (and I'm willing to stand by that). But, when you start to get into it, things can get a bit fuzzy.
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seebs
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It's a bit more interesting in the case of a publisher vs. the creator. My thinking is that this is a case where I wish creators were less willing to sign away their rights.
I mostly don't care about the law, but I do think that the copyright holder retains a moral right to say "don't copy this". That's the deal we make with them to encourage them to publish stuff in the first place.
I mostly don't care about the law, but I do think that the copyright holder retains a moral right to say "don't copy this". That's the deal we make with them to encourage them to publish stuff in the first place.
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MSBS
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The issue is a bit more complex than that. In your example you are talking about the theft of valuable property that then is no longer in possesion of its owner and can no longer be sold be him. With software, the owner still has it and can still profit from its use. The financial impacts are not similar.
That being said, I still don't buy that type of rationalization. I think we all probably know someone that is a computer hobiest that hasn't bought a piece of software or music cd in a few years. Obviously, there is a loss of sales in such a case, but it is not on the order of every single thing copied. Someone with $100,000 worth of software and music on their computer that is entirely pirated is really not likely to have bought all of it had they not been able to pirate it.
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alphatronics
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I think that there are some cases where warez can be useful.
A recent example:
I own an Olympus digital camera. It requires software to be able to connect to the computer. I would not be able to download images from the camera if I do not have the software, which is apparently why I lost the software CD. Olympus apparently thinks that I should pay $20-$40 for software that they already had given me a copy of, so I ended up having to find the software on Kazaa.
I sometimes use warez in order to preview a product that I'm thinking of getting. I have downloaded several products off of warez sites before buying them in order to make sure that I wasn't just wasting my money.
A recent example:
I own an Olympus digital camera. It requires software to be able to connect to the computer. I would not be able to download images from the camera if I do not have the software, which is apparently why I lost the software CD. Olympus apparently thinks that I should pay $20-$40 for software that they already had given me a copy of, so I ended up having to find the software on Kazaa.
I sometimes use warez in order to preview a product that I'm thinking of getting. I have downloaded several products off of warez sites before buying them in order to make sure that I wasn't just wasting my money.
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e4God
Visiting WebHead
Pete:
Stealing is never right.
These arguments sound like some old ones...
They have so much they will never miss it if I take some without paying...
Or...
My neighbor is not using his (grill, mower, sprinkler, etc) so I can use it...
Or...
finders keepers...
If you take without asking, that is stealing. If you find something that you know is not yours, or accept a gift from somebody when you know that what they are giving away is not theirs... that too is stealing/
If you ask and the author or owner says yes, that is sharing.
THE AUTHOR / OWNER DECIDES. Not you. See?
Stealing is never right.
These arguments sound like some old ones...
They have so much they will never miss it if I take some without paying...
Or...
My neighbor is not using his (grill, mower, sprinkler, etc) so I can use it...
Or...
finders keepers...
If you take without asking, that is stealing. If you find something that you know is not yours, or accept a gift from somebody when you know that what they are giving away is not theirs... that too is stealing/
If you ask and the author or owner says yes, that is sharing.
THE AUTHOR / OWNER DECIDES. Not you. See?
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It's wrong. It was a [insert profanity here] Warez site that hosted 9 gigabytes of illegal files on the dedicated server our forum is on and when we deleted their PORN, MP3s & other **** they tried for hours to hack us. Luckily we had just employed someone to install new security hardware so they couldn't get through. We've now got some pretty cool software to trace these basta... people to see if they try us again.
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