Warning

[Erik3]

Revelations 22:18-19:

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

So, what do you guys think, is this a warning concerning the Bible as a whole, or just the book of Revelations?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Seeing as how Revelation was written 200 years before the Bible was put together, it's just talking about Revelation. That doesn't mean we can just go and change the Bible *cough Luther cough* but John is referring to the book that he just completed: Revelation.

 

[Palatka44]

Seeing that Revelation is the final book and that after 2000 years no other has been added to the Canon it is a message that not only comprises Revelation but that of the Bible as a whole. It would be prudent to note that even John said that many books could be written of Jesus' eploits at the end of his Gospel. Many more were yet to be written, Acts, Paul's episciles, Hebrews, etc. the door was open for more. There were many others that were not included but it is as if John by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit sealed Revelation as well as the canon with those above quotes.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Well the Gospel of John was written between 90 and 100 AD, long after Acts and Paul's epistles, but your point is noted.

 

[BjBarnett]

I think that it just applies to Revelations because the NT as we know it was not compiled until around 400 AD (actually just a little bit before that). But im sure God does not like it if people add to or take from the bible.

 

[FreeinChrist]

It is just for the book of Revelation. Note the words:

who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them,

what is the "them" - the words of prophecy.
Revelation is the one prophecy book of the NT.

"this book" - Revelation, for the NT had not not been assempbled as a singular 'book'

Young's lieral translations is this - and I underline certain words:
Rev 22:18 `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

Rev 22:19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

 

[SPALATIN]

Seeing as how Revelation was written 200 years before the Bible was put together, it's just talking about Revelation. That doesn't mean we can just go and change the Bible *cough Luther cough* but John is referring to the book that he just completed: Revelation.

Luther didn't change the Bible, but questioned what should and should not be canon. To suggest otherwise is taking Luther out of context.

here is a good website to read about this:
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/apocrypha.html

I also know that Luther considered James epistle to be one of "straw" but that was early in his career. Later on he changed his feelings on this epistle and did not exclude it from NT canon.

Maybe y'all should consider this before making Luther out to be the culprit.

 

[Dad Ernie]

So, what do you guys think, is this a warning concerning the Bible as a whole, or just the book of Revelations?

Greetings Erik,

Do you suppose this is God's heart about His entire Word? Or just the last book? How do we find out? Let's see....

Deut 4:1-2 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


I'm sure there are other verses that can be added to the above, and if anybody knows of them, please state them here so I can add them to my Bible reference file.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[PaladinValer]

It refers to just Revelation of St. John only.

 

[Edial]

Revelations 22:18-19:

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

So, what do you guys think, is this a warning concerning the Bible as a whole, or just the book of Revelations?

This specific warning is for the Revelation only.
However, the one in the Proverbs refer to the whole Bible -

PR 30:5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. PR 30:6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[DailyBlessings]

Just the book of Revelations. In fact, this verse is one of the reasons why I do not consider Revelations to be a valid member of the canon, since this warning flatly contradicts that which is said elsewhere in the bible, that all sins are forgiveable save for blasphemy against the spirit. Why would god change His mind just to preserve a book that He knew would be translated into thousands of languages with no ill intent at all?

 

[Rolf Ernst]

The warning of verse 18 concerns "the words of the prophecy..."

The warning of verse 19 concerns "the book" in which the prophecy will be written.

Jesus is precise in His wording, and we need to pay close attention to each word, and the way He orders His words. In the two verses, Jesus gives warning concerning both the words of the prophecy, and the Bible as a whole.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Just the book of Revelations. In fact, this verse is one of the reasons why I do not consider Revelations to be a valid member of the canon, since this warning flatly contradicts that which is said elsewhere in the bible, that all sins are forgiveable save for blasphemy against the spirit. Why would god change His mind just to preserve a book that He knew would be translated into thousands of languages with no ill intent at all?

Greetings Daily Blessings,

Why do you suppose Annanias and Sapphira were killed on the spot? Were their sins forgiveable? What about taking the Mark of the Beast? All who take it will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

God doesn't change as I have shown by quoting the appropriate verses in my prior post. You can't mess with God or His Word and get away with it.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[DailyBlessings]

Greetings Daily Blessings,

Why do you suppose Annanias and Sapphira were killed on the spot? Were their sins forgiveable? What about taking the Mark of the Beast? All who take it will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

God doesn't change as I have shown by quoting the appropriate verses in my prior post. You can't mess with God or His Word and get away with it.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

As for the unchanging nature of God, I agree with you. This is why I would question a book that repeatedly contradicts his words. But this is not the thread for a discussion of Revelation's veracity.

 

[SteveR2021]

Why do you suppose Annanias and Sapphira were killed on the spot? Were their sins forgiveable? What about taking the Mark of the Beast? All who take it will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

God doesn't change as I have shown by quoting the appropriate verses in my prior post. You can't mess with God or His Word and get away with it.

Amen.

In fact, this verse is one of the reasons why I do not consider Revelations to be a valid member of the canon, since this warning flatly contradicts that which is said elsewhere in the bible, that all sins are forgiveable save for blasphemy against the spirit.

But what is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Remember also that the forgiveable sins are the ones we repent of...Paul once (actually more than once) listed a whole bunch of sinful behaviors (1 Cor. 6:9-10) and said that any who partook in these sins could not share in the Kingdom of God. Is that also a contradiction? Paul and John (in Revelation) are calling people to avoid certain things and adding that there are real consequences...they aren't saying there is no room for repentance once these things have been committed.

This passage is difficult if we believe in OSAS (once saved always saved)...but I don't, so I have no problem with it.

I hope that helps you rethink your conclusions re: Revelation

God Bless

Stephen

 

[Lotar]

Luther didn't change the Bible, but questioned what should and should not be canon. To suggest otherwise is taking Luther out of context.

here is a good website to read about this:
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/apocrypha.html

I also know that Luther considered James epistle to be one of "straw" but that was early in his career. Later on he changed his feelings on this epistle and did not exclude it from NT canon.

Maybe y'all should consider this before making Luther out to be the culprit.

I suspect IP is refering to Luther being partial to adding extra words in convenient spots.

 

[Palatka44]

Just the book of Revelations. In fact, this verse is one of the reasons why I do not consider Revelations to be a valid member of the canon, since this warning flatly contradicts that which is said elsewhere in the bible, that all sins are forgiveable save for blasphemy against the spirit. Why would god change His mind just to preserve a book that He knew would be translated into thousands of languages with no ill intent at all?

Do we not know that the Scriptures are God breathed?
2 Peter 1:20,21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Wouldn't any change thereof be an admition by the remover that he knows more than the Holy Spirit about what should be in the Bible?
That would be the height of blasphemy wouldn't you think?

 

[DailyBlessings]

Do we not know that the Scriptures are God breathed?
2 Peter 1:20,21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Wouldn't any change thereof be an admition by the remover that he knows more than the Holy Spirit about what should be in the Bible?
That would be the height of blasphemy wouldn't you think?

If the book of Revelation does not belong in the collection now called Scripture, the Peter verse would not really apply to it.

 

[Grishnak]

Seeing as how Revelation was written 200 years before the Bible was put together, it's just talking about Revelation. That doesn't mean we can just go and change the Bible *cough Luther cough* but John is referring to the book that he just completed: Revelation.

The response that is running thru my mind on this one *cough false decretals cough* would surely get me warned

 

[Palatka44]

If the book of Revelation does not belong in the collection now called Scripture, the Peter verse would not really apply to it.

It is there and has been sense the canon was compiled. It had to be thought of as inspired but sense it is doubtful that any dissertation that you or I make about the canon is not going to change its content then our arguement is moot isn't it?
My suggestion to you is to just take Revelation and rip it out of your Bible and go to Zondervan and promote it as your personal version called the DBV. But then if you did that you would be adding to yourself the curses that are in said book. Oh well maybe they'll promote it as the DCV.
I realy don't mean to be flaming but it does beg the question, What good is the rest of the canon if the verses in Revelation do not apply to the Book as a whole?
The verses are a seal and nothing has been added to it sense that was written.