Warning To New Christians

Oh so many misconceptions, not enough time

ScienceLovesGod said:

1- They all do not respect the Bible and twist the Scriptures in order to fit their ideology.

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I do see more respect for the scriptures in the study of them a bit in JWs, however as you say they twist the scriptures to meet their ideology, the same can be said of the Mormons and Islam(when they do interact with the Bible) however the Romans, I'm not aware of them doing this and to the others the Bible is an irrelevance.

2- They have their own "holy" bibles, and simply say that it is the word of God. Revelation 22:18-19 - For I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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First of all that warning prophecy is meant only for the Book of revelation, see also the similar warnings in Deuteronomy and Daniel, second of all I assume you're talking about the addition of the deuterocanon and so I ask you why are you taking the deuterocanon out of the Bible? If you're talking about the Book of Mormon then yes fanciful things to have men chase after what they want, the Qu'ran again the same, however with the other Religions again they don't interact with the Bible.

3- They do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as the one and only savior of mankind.

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Well JWs and Romans do...

4- Some believe that man is, or can become, God.

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This can probably be definitively said of Mormons, and maybe liberally applied to Buddhists, but I'm not really sure that Nirvana is the same as Godhood.

5- They pray to false idols, like the virgin Mary. Mary is a sinner, she is not God. There is no need to hail her, and she is not the savior.

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Flagrant misrepresentation of the Roman stance, it's not that they're praying to Mary in order for her to answer their prayers, they are praying(asking) Mary to intercede for them, more or less the same as me asking you to pray for me, it shouldn't be in exclusion to praying to God but rather in addition to it, the same as how intercession works on earth. This likely stems from too much of an elevation of Christ to the point where they feel he is unapproachable and that is a problem, however I hardly feel that it is blasphemous.

ScienceLovesGod said:

You're picking apart what has been stated as if what has been stated isn't true.

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Well yeah, that's thoroughly normal, if we don't sharpen each other as steel against steel, how on earth are we going to defend our faith from the nonbelievers, after all if we misrepresent the faith of those who we are calling to Christ then how on earth can we expect to get through to them?

Let's go down the list of every religion you defended and the examples you gave, and I'll back it up with Scripture, shall we?

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Sure.

"I do see more respect for the scriptures in the study of them a bit in JWs..."
JW (formally known as the Watchtower Organization) DO NOT respect Scripture. Their establishment was founded by a former protestant by the name of Charles T. Russell. Russell said there were certain things in the Bible he didn't like. He said he didn't like the idea of the trinity, and the teachings of Hell. For many years, he procalimed that Jesus would return in 1874. Jesus Himself says, "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Then when Jesus didn't show up, he stated that he miscalculated and now sees that Jesus will return in 1914. Again, He never showed. So then, instead of admitting defeat, he claimed Jesus did in fact return, but only in spirit, in order to help him with his church. JW beleive that the Kingdom of Heaven in a theocratic system of government run by humans here on earth. Luke 17:20-21 - And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, "The kingdom of God comes not with observation: Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." They also do not celebrate Easter because they do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. And among many other examples. So you see, this is a false religion.

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I did qualify that they do twist scripture, and yes the Wintesses are a cult(I will use the word cult for those that are in reaction to Orthodoxy and false religion for those that don't really have much to do with Christianity) But if we are to effectively witness to them I believe that we must praise their diligence in studying the scripture, because although they do twist scripture they haven't done it enough to fully eradicate the proclamation of Christ as Yahweh.

"First of all that warning prophecy is meant only for the Book of revelation..."
So It's ok then to distort the other books? Even if I purposely create new verses and add them to the Bible? I might be saved even if I do so, yes, but the point was to show how even slightly changing the Word infuriates God, and therefore it's not to be done.

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If we take this stance then the only option is to learn Hebrew and Greek, this is not the view of the Apostles who used the translated copy of their scriptures (the Septuagint [LXX]) that was translated into the common tongue, not to mention the fact that they wrote in the common tongue.

"...however with the other religions again they don't interact with the Bible."
Look up every single religion I gave, and there will be some interaction with the Bible, whether it be prophecy, creation, angles, and Jesus. Especially Freemasonry and New Age.

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Buddhism certainly doesn't, and New Age from what I can tell doesn't really need anything and I'd probably think of it more like Buddhism in a thong, Freemasonry is based more on Kabbalah than the Bible from what I can understand, so it's basically esoteric witchcraft.

"Well JWs and Romans do..."
JWs teach that Jesus is actually the Archangel Michael. JWs do not teach about the real Jesus, and therefore teach things about false prophets and antiChrists.

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This is not the same as saying what you were claiming, Jesus in JW theology still is redeemer, regardless of what they say about his person they do not deny his work.

The Roman Catholic Church would love for us all not to get too near to the real Jesus, that's why they are telling people to confess their sins to a priest, and pray to Mary so she can pray to God for them.

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I have seen no indication of this in my interactions with Catholicism, in fact one of the first things that they bring up is Christ a lot of the time. On confession the Bible says to confess our sins it doesn't really say who to, on Saint intercession again you have yet to tell me what is the difference between asking a Canonised Saint to pray for me and asking yourself to pray for me.

In most Catholic countries, Jesus is seen as either a dying man on a crucifix, or a helpless little baby in the arms Mary. He can help no one, so if you want somebody to help you, you need to go through the blessed heart of Mary.

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Well in most of western Christianity he is seen as the man dying on a cross, or a great moral teacher with his life tragically cut short, in both cases it's extremely unhelpful.

In the cathedral of Quito, you will see in the center of the altar a crucifix with Mary hanging on the cross, not Jesus.

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It's actually not Mary, it is a local Saint and Martyr;
Exposing Catholicism: Crisis of Faith | Catholic Answers

The original release of Catholicism: Crisis Of Faith showed a statue depicting a woman on a crucifix. The statue was said to be located in the cathedral
of Quito, Ecuador. The narrator explained that Catholics have so confused the role of Mary in redemption, equating her work with her Son’s, that they believe she, too, suffered for their sins.

But the confusion resides not in the Catholic Church but in the minds of McCarthy and the video’s producers. The Most Rev. Antonio Arregui, Auxiliary Bishop of Quito, certified that the statue in question is not in the city’s cathedral but in a monastery in Quito. More important, the woman depicted is not Mary but a young woman martyr, Santa Liberata. She is said to have been the daughter of a Portuguese prince. "Her father wished to marry her to a non-Christian and corrupt prince," explains Bishop Arregui. "When she refused, her father ordered that she be crucified." McCarthy was made aware of this grotesque blunder, but he admits it was still in the video as late as 21 months after its initial release.

The fact that such an outlandish claim—that Mary, too, was crucified—appeared in the original version at all shows McCarthy’s sloppy scholarship.

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1 Timothy 2:5 - There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ. John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." That also takes care of your comment on 5.

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No it doesn't the whole of Saint intercession theology grows out of intercession theology quite easily, especially with quotes such as "God is not the God of the dead but of the Living," in reference to Sts. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

"...but I'm not really sure that Nirvana is the same as Godhood." I wasn't saying that Buddha taught people how to be God or that they are God. But the similarities of Buddhism and wanting to be God are striking, don't you think? Buddha thought he could save himself, and in doing so, thought he was God whether he realized it or not.

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Yes they are but it's still an invalid argument to say that the goal of Buddhism is to become a God, I would suggest that for both Mormonism and Buddhism you'd emphasise rather that it is a Theology of human attainment that makes them cults/false religion.

Please, please, please do not read the Bible. STUDY IT. God bless.

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In studying it we must read it, you assume that I don't do this, I do so wonder why? I also try to study other religions so that I can better encourage those in the faith and equip them in defending and evangelising the faith.

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progmonk said:

Well yeah, that's thoroughly normal, if we don't sharpen each other as steel against steel, how on earth are we going to defend our faith from the nonbelievers, after all if we misrepresent the faith of those who we are calling to Christ then how on earth can we expect to get through to them?


Sure.


I did qualify that they do twist scripture, and yes the Wintesses are a cult(I will use the word cult for those that are in reaction to Orthodoxy and false religion for those that don't really have much to do with Christianity) But if we are to effectively witness to them I believe that we must praise their diligence in studying the scripture, because although they do twist scripture they haven't done it enough to fully eradicate the proclamation of Christ as Yahweh.


If we take this stance then the only option is to learn Hebrew and Greek, this is not the view of the Apostles who used the translated copy of their scriptures (the Septuagint [LXX]) that was translated into the common tongue, not to mention the fact that they wrote in the common tongue.


Buddhism certainly doesn't, and New Age from what I can tell doesn't really need anything and I'd probably think of it more like Buddhism in a thong, Freemasonry is based more on Kabbalah than the Bible from what I can understand, so it's basically esoteric witchcraft.


This is not the same as saying what you were claiming, Jesus in JW theology still is redeemer, regardless of what they say about his person they do not deny his work.


I have seen no indication of this in my interactions with Catholicism, in fact one of the first things that they bring up is Christ a lot of the time. On confession the Bible says to confess our sins it doesn't really say who to, on Saint intercession again you have yet to tell me what is the difference between asking a, Saint to pray for me and asking yourself to pray for me.


Well in most of western Christianity he is seen as the man dying on a cross, or a great moral teacher with his life tragically cut short, in both cases it's extremely unhelpful.


It's actually not Mary, it is a local Saint and Martyr;
Exposing Catholicism: Crisis of Faith | Catholic Answers



No it doesn't the whole of Saint intercession theology grows out of intercession theology quite easily, especially with quotes such as "God is not the God of the dead but of the Living," in reference to Sts. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob


Yes they are but it's still an invalid argument to say that the goal of Buddhism is to become a God, I would suggest that for both Mormonism and Buddhism you'd emphasise rather that it is a Theology of human attainment that makes them cults/false religion.


In studying it we must read it, you assume that I don't do this, I do so wonder why? I also try to study other religions so that I can better encourage those in the faith and equip them in defending and evangelising the faith.

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What is your opinion on pagan beliefs that were part of the original founders of the Catholic church? What are your thoughts on guidelines and theology that was made Gospel by the popes throughout history, and do you find the dates in which these decrees were made a conflict with Bible teaching?do you believe the pope is Christ on earth and may change the word for his own agenda. How do you explain the confessional to the priest and his ability to set decrees for pennance. What do you think of praying someone out of hell? Do you consider holy water idolatry can you show me that revelation stands alone

now faith said:

What is your opinion on pagan beliefs that were part of the original founders of the Catholic church?

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How on earth is Judaism pagan? The founder of what eventually became the Catholic and Orthodox churches was Christ, what Pagan beliefs and observances do you think there are?

What are your thoughts on guidelines and theology that was made Gospel by the popes throughout history, and do you find the dates in which these decrees were made a conflict with Bible teaching?

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Vague accusations of Heresy aren't really my strong suit, neither are decrees of Popes and councils, though judging from the one I'm most familiar with (the Council of Nicaea) is entirely Biblical, or shall we discuss the merits of Trinitarianism?

do you believe the pope is Christ on earth and may change the word for his own agenda.

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The Pope is no more or less Christ on earth than any Christian believer is

How do you explain the confessional to the priest and his ability to set decrees for pennance. What do you think of praying someone out of hell? Do you consider holy water idolatry can you show me that revelation stands alone

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Again why the assumption that I'm familiar with the Theology behind Catholicism, I was merely commenting on where I knew that ScienceLovesGod had misconceptions, this hardly makes me an expert on Catholic Theology.

JesusisallIneed said:

I am still meeting god's requirement by not attending church. Assembling is when 2 or more is gathered. Me and my husband pray, praise and worship god daily. There is also church on TV and online for us to hear God's word. So church is not just in a building but you can also worship God at home with others.

I just cannot deal with being hurt any longer. I have been to 3 churches (COGIC and Baptist) and have had bad experiences. So I am done with church for a while but not GOD.

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If it is just you and your husband, who is your God appointed spiritual authority? It is supposed to be a pastor - he is your shepherd and he is responsible for you.

It may be wise to try another denomination alltogether. You need a home church in order to grow spiritually, to be accountable to your spiritual authority.

I do, however, know of a couple who, for a while, "attended" a church via it's streamed services on its website. They communicated with the pastor and some members, "attended" the services and video chat Bible studies. They even sent their tithes there.

They said that for a short term answer it worked for them.

If that is the case, you should be able to Google the type of church you want and see if their services are televised. I know of a Christian woman and her husband who are about to start having Bible study via chat through a meet-up group. They are both very Godly and it is going to be quite exciting. I may even attend.

SharonL said:

Don't let people put guilt on you - just as you say - where any 2 are gathered - Jesus is in the mist. You will grow in your faith because you will be looking harder without people telling you what and how to act. Blessings.

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(-:

The OP brings up an issue that is important for all believers, and it's not just about corruption. We need to take initiative for the faith we stand behind. If we put ourselves in an audience position all the time, then we will feel victimized and manipulated. Jesus trained His followers to get up and out there.

Churches that pull their members inward, no matter how great the church is, will find people bickering and competing. We were meant to gather temporarily for training and support, and then go outward in God-empowered confidence. There is a need for children's programs and other supporting meetings, but the life of the Christian should take place everywhere, not scurrying around to make a church appear better.

Hi JesusIsAllINeed - do you mind if I refer to you as JIAIN for short? Or Jiain to make it look more like a name?

First of all, I am sorry you were the victim of abuse. The unfortunate truth is that there are many churches like that out there. You don't by any chance live in the South, do you? I went to school in Mississippi, where "going to church" and "being a Christian" are more of a social/cultural thing than an actual belief system or way of living. There are a lot of dead churches, and a lot of people who have been burned by the church. But then I found this little grassroots church that was different from all the others . . . It wasn't traditional and it wasn't contemporary. It wasn't any particular denomination and it wasn't nondenominational either. It just sort of . . . was. As a friend of mine put it, it was a church that strove to be an authentic expression of worshiping God in a community of believers (he said it better than that; I don't remember his exact words). I learned and grew so much in that church, and going there kind of healed me from my own church wounds (which were much smaller than yours appear to be). Going to that church restored my faith in churches and in The Church.

It is fine for you to worship with your husband - actually that is poorly worded; it is great that you and your husband worship together. But there can be so much blessing in meeting with more believers than just you and another person. You need other people, and they need you. In time, I hope you can find a larger group of people to grow and serve with. You and your husband may even be called at some point to start a home church or Bible study or something like that. I would not be surprised if there are other people in your area just like you.

There are good churches out there, I promise. I hope your bad experiences don't make you think badly of all churches.

All the best!

There are so many churches out there of different denominations and being part of a fellowship that is positive and of your ideals I am sure is out there Being part of something uplifting would be so exciting and with like minds who share your values. Life is too short to be in a "prison" . Cheers and Good Luck,,,Suzi