Want to learn about grace.

[PatrickJ]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition. Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning. Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off? Are there any good books on grace you could recommend? I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

 

[McWilliams]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition. Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning. Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off? Are there any good books on grace you could recommend? I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

Hello Patrick! So glad you're interested in the doctrines of grace!
God is sovereign, man is accountable! Both are true! Knowing God is sovereign does not relieve us of our responsibility to live a life that glorifies Him!
There are wonderful books that share the details of these great doctrines very well! A few that were life changing for me were:
The Sovereignty of God, by A.W. Pink
The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, by Loraine Boettner

Actually I believe both of these might be online. If you Google A.W. Pink you will get the site for his works. The same for Boettner.
May our sweet Lord guide you always in your search for His truth!
God bless you!

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition. Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning. Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off? Are there any good books on grace you could recommend? I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

Er...uh...yeah...yer off the mark a little with the predestination thing. Only hyper-Calvinists believe that we are all puppets dancing on the end of God's string.

Two basic books on reformed theology that have been very helpful to me are Chosen By God by RC Sproul and Putting Amazing Back Into Grace by Michael Horton.

Basically, grace means that every good thing we have comes from God...especially salvation.

 

[Imblessed]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition.

Keep in mind God knows NOT because he looked through some time tunnel but that God knows because God ordains. He ordains based on His Unsearchable Will. We do not know why God chooses some and leaves others, but we do know it's not because He looked through time and saw us being good or choosing Him.

Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning.

This is not a true statement. What we do definately has consequence! We are responsible for all we do, or don't do. God may be in control but we are still held accountable for our actions--we are not robots.

Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off?

www.monergism.com seems to be a well used site around here. Maybe you can get some info on there.

Are there any good books on grace you could recommend?

The ones already mentioned are good. I personally was helped by R.C. Sproul's "Grace Unknown", which is written for a layperson, very easily understood. It was the first book I read on the Doctrines of Grace and Reformed Theology.

I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

There are "calvinists" in many denominations. Around here it's mostly baptists and presbyterians.(I know I'm leaving out a few denomns, but I figure I'd just give the 2 most prevailant around here) It would probably be easier to name the denominations in which you would not find TULIP.


Good luck with your search and keep asking questions!

 

[mlqurgw]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition. Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning. Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off? Are there any good books on grace you could recommend? I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

Here are a few links that might be helpful
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/sovereignty.htm

http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm

http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/gills_archive.htm#2

The word predestination is always in connection to people as it is used in the Scriptures. It is never said to be based on foresight but on foreordination or foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is not foresight but forelove or foreordination. It has reference to having a special relationship before. In the same sense that a husband knows his wife and they become one flesh. It is an intamate joining in a special bond. What you describe is more fatalism than Calvinism.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Hello Patrick,

The folks above have recommended some very good books and websites for you. I second those recommendations. Sproul, Pink, Beottner, and Horton all do a fine job on this subject.

What you write is more like pre-observation than pre-destination. We believe God predetermined all things before the foundation of the world. We believe this is clearly taught in the Bible from beginning to end, though many (myself included) missed it for many years, and even argued against it, before being convinced (from Scripture) of its truthfullness.

I wish you well in your studies. There are many here who can answer whatever questions you may have.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[ghs1994]

I gotta say I started browsing Pink's book on The Sovereignty of God and it's quite amazing once you start to read about God's character and how He has dealt with us.

 

[mlqurgw]

I gotta say I started browsing Pink's book on The Sovereignty of God and it's quite amazing once you start to read about God's character and how He has dealt with us.

It is isn't it? In my opinion it is the best ever written by a man on the subject, apart from the Scriptures of course.

 

[McWilliams]

It is isn't it? In my opinion it is the best ever written by a man on the subject, apart from the Scriptures of course.

Guess its the most underlined book I own! It was that book that really validated the whole picture of God's sovereignty and the doctrines of grace. I then realized I was in the wrong church and was soon in a church where I now hear the doctrines of grace preached in total fullness! So great!

There are other good books but that one is the stand out for me, life changing!

 

[mlqurgw]

Guess its the most underlined book I own! It was that book that really validated the whole picture of God's sovereignty and the doctrines of grace. I then realized I was in the wrong church and was soon in a church where I now hear the doctrines of grace preached in total fullness! So great!

There are other good books but that one is the stand out for me, life changing!

Oh! How I thank God for giving sight to the blind. He did for me. I simply cannot express my joy.

 

[Erinwilcox]

I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

The Reformed Baptists still hold to the TULIP!! Actually, I think that they are clinging to the TULIP for dear life! You'd have to kill them before they'd let you take it away from them! It is such a comfort to know that God is sovereign over all things and is working all things for my good. ..

 

[lmnop9876]

there are several Presbyterian churches in Australia that still hold very strongly to TULIP.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, WAB

That is by far the biggest railing of half truths and pure straw, and misuse of scripture I belive I have seen here in a while, by the way your use of Greek is in plain error, your application would cause you to fail you first year flat out.

I would also like to remind you you are a guest here here in the true nature of the Gospel Room, nick named Calvinism.. and should conduct your self in the correct manner. If you find you are unable to do so please take you man centered gospel else where, where you can get your ears tickled and rail against the God of the Scriptures.

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[lmnop9876]

Try looking at TULIP this way:
1. I am totally sinful, and totally unable in myself to do anything pleasing to God.
2. God chose to save me, not because of anything in me, but merely out of His grace and love.
3. Christ's life, death, and resurrection was sufficient in power to save all mankind, and God in His great grace and love towards me chose to give me the faith to receive this salvation.
4. God's grace is sufficient to save me, I don't need to add anything to it. Because God has chosen me, He will save me by His grace.
5. Because God has chosen to save me, He will continue to preserve me, and sustain my faith until I die.

 

[edie19]

I would like to learn more about the doctrines of grace. I figure predestination means God knows every outcome of everyone's life from the beginning of creation and therefore God knows who will end up in His eternal presence and who will end up in eternal perdition. Basically, whatever we do will have no consequence in the end because it has been foreseen by God from the beginning. Is what I'm writing close to the mark or very far off? Are there any good books on grace you could recommend? I would also like to know which denominations still hold to TULIP. Thank you.

R.C. Sproul has an excellent book that overviews Reformed doctrine - very easy to read, informative - covers the basics well.
"Essential Truths of the Christian Faith"

One of my personal favorites:
"Whatever Happened to the Gospel of Grace? Rediscovering the Doctrines That Shook the World" by James Montgomery Boice

Also by Boice along with Philip Ryken
"The Doctrines of Grace - Rediscovering the Evangelical Gospel"

Just remembered another (I haven't finished this one yet, but so far its quite good).
"By His Grace and For His Glory" by Thomas Nettles

edie

 

[Imblessed]

WAB,

I must say, what you just posted, was indeed, claptrap, by definition:

(1799) : pretentious nonsense: TRASH" i.e. trying to win the approval of the hearers or readers by "making usually unjustified or excessive claims" (definition of "pretentious" from Webster’s)

Thanks for a fine example