#walkaway

LostMarbels · Jul 15, 2018

@Ana the Ist

This is happening regardless of your consent, approval or even compliance. Rail on all you want. America will be returning to Christ, and go through a time of prosperity. Many Christians reconise since we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, but spiritual powers in high places; that this is a spiritual battle.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
You said "Judeo Christians values NEVER helped anyone". That's what you said. Yes, they absolutely have. So have all the other major religions of the world through massive charities. How can you deny it? That's not even rational to be honest. ???

Seriously, to deny "treat others the way you wish to be treated", just for one example, "Never helped anyone" does not seem rational to me. Now, if you're saying we should STILL not install Christianity as a theocracy, that's fine. But to say this value "never helped anyone"?

The golden rule predates christianity.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

LostMarbels said:
@Ana the Ist

This is happening regardless of your consent, approval or even compliance. Rail on all you want. America will be returning to Christ, and go through a time of prosperity. Many Christians reconise since we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, but spiritual powers in high places; that this is a spiritual battle.

Wow...

Well it's one you're losing...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...cking-away-from-god-and-christianity.amp.html

The irony of you promoting one walkaway movement while ignoring the reality of another...its hilarious.

Liza B. · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
If you want to do a quick comparison...

Guatemala is 90% Christian...about half catholic and half evangelical protestants. They also outlawed abortion in 1973. Now, about half the children are starving....there's far too many people and not enough jobs. Disease, poverty, and violence are rampant.

Sweden on the other hand is 80% not religious or straight up atheist. They enjoy some of the highest standards of living in the world...in just about every measure.

So when I say judeo christian values aren't going to help...this is exactly what I mean. Jesus doesn't put food on plates....he doesn't stop violence and death...he's not coming anytime soon to save his faithful, and they're fleeing his most religious nations.

So if you want me to not be Mr Internet Atheist....don't make some ridiculous suggestions about how christianity is going to fix anything. It's had 2000 years now and frankly, it hasn't helped anyone. Science has helped a great many people....and it could probably help more if christianity just got out of the way.

So please, come up with real solutions but let go of the whole "christian values" schtick...it's obviously not working.

Guatemala does not have abject poverty because Christianity fails for the most part; but because the gov't is entirely corrupt and horrid. This should be obvious and can happen anywhere. No one says that Christianity makes perfection, and it's patently obvious that this is not Heaven YET. But by and large, yes, Christianity makes societies BETTER and atheism, by and large, has made them WORSE. Sweden being and outlier and Guatemala being an outlier. Absolutely.

Christianity built all of Western Society, an undeniable good. Without Christianity, the Swedes would probably still be sacrificing their own children every nine years to their pagan gods, or who knows what all.

Liza B. · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
The golden rule predates christianity.

It's certainly not one that that pagans followed, is it? And I understand that it transcends religion, but there is no reason for it atheism. Or put it this way: there is absolutely no reason a single atheist should follow it.

Liza B. · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Wow...

Well it's one you're losing...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...cking-away-from-god-and-christianity.amp.html

The irony of you promoting one walkaway movement while ignoring the reality of another...its hilarious.

It's one we are ALL losing, but thanks be to God, He wins in the end. It's already written.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
Guatemala does not have abject poverty because Christianity fails for the most part; but because the gov't is entirely corrupt and horrid.

Even if that was the case...so what? It simply means that being religious won't stop corruption either. Add it to the list.

This should be obvious and can happen anywhere. No one says that Christianity makes perfection, and it's patently obvious that this is not Heaven YET. But by and large, yes, Christianity makes societies BETTER and atheism, by and large, has made them WORSE.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...societies-fare-better-religious-societies?amp

Even the most religious states in our nation are the worst off.

Christianity built all of Western Society, an undeniable good. Without Christianity, the Swedes would probably still be sacrificing their own children every nine years to their pagan gods, or who knows what all.

No...christianity built the dark ages. Specifically, after it destroyed Rome...and all of Europe became more and more Christian, people were increasingly only taught religion. This is the centuries of stagnation and death we call "the dark ages"....because, metaphorically, mankind was in "the dark".

The enlightenment came when Europe reclaimed knowledge of science from ancient greece and rome...and moved away from religion.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
It's one we are ALL losing, but thanks be to God, He wins in the end. It's already written.

Then leave it to him...leave the rest of us out of it.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
It's certainly not one that that pagans followed, is it?

It's not one christians followed either lol.

LostMarbels · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Wow...

Well it's one you're losing...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...cking-away-from-god-and-christianity.amp.html

The irony of you promoting one walkaway movement while ignoring the reality of another...its hilarious.

Am I supposed to explain the great apostasy? Or falling away?

2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

No shocker. I've know that was going to happen since the first days of coming to Christ.

Seeing that this is not the place for that conversation I will return to the topic at hand.

Liza B. · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Even if that was the case...so what? It simply means that being religious won't stop corruption either. Add it to the list.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201410/secular-societies-fare-better-religious-societies?amp

Even the most religious states in our nation are the worst off.

No...christianity built the dark ages. Specifically, after it destroyed Rome...and all of Europe became more and more Christian, people were increasingly only taught religion. This is the centuries of stagnation and death we call "the dark ages"....because, metaphorically, mankind was in "the dark".

The enlightenment came when Europe reclaimed knowledge of science from ancient greece and rome...and moved away from religion.

You realize the "dark ages" isn't even the proper historical term for that era anymore, correct? And during the so-called "enlightenment" all kinds of nefarious goings-on were running rampant as well (syphilis, anyone?). For one example, during the Dark Ages pretty much the ONLY scribing we have is FROM the religious.

It's some really dubious historical rewriting too to say Christianity destroyed Rome. What are you on about tonight, for real?

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
You realize the "dark ages" isn't even the proper historical term for that era anymore, correct?

Why is that?

And during the so-called "enlightenment" all kinds of nefarious goings-on were running rampant as well (syphilis, anyone?).

You mean the syphilis that we got from being so successful that we conquered half the world? Or the syphilis we cured with modern medicine lol? Great example.

For one example, during the Dark Ages pretty much the ONLY scribing we have is FROM the religious.

That's because they feared science and only taught religion...another great example.

It's some really dubious historical rewriting too to say Christianity destroyed Rome. What are you on about tonight, for real?

It's one of the reasons...

Rome used to be pretty accepting of different religions....once that stopped, and they forced christianity on everyone....Rome got sacked repeatedly.

That's not rewriting either....that happened. Christianity didn't spread because "its so great "....it spread because Christians outlawed everything else, through threat of violence.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

LostMarbels said:
Am I supposed to explain the great apostasy? Or falling away?

2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

No...no need to explain.

No shocker. I've know that was going to happen since the first days of coming to Christ.

Seeing that this is not the place for that conversation I will return to the topic at hand.

So is this a return to Christian values? Or the great apostasy?

Make up your mind already.

Liza B. · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Why is that?

You mean the syphilis that we got from being so successful that we conquered half the world? Or the syphilis we cured with modern medicine lol? Great example.

That's because they feared science and only taught religion...another great example.

It's one of the reasons...

Rome used to be pretty accepting of different religions....once that stopped, and they forced christianity on everyone....Rome got sacked repeatedly.

That's not rewriting either....that happened. Christianity didn't spread because "its so great "....it spread because Christians outlawed everything else, through threat of violence.

Science is great as science. It's not great as a religion. Don't mix the two, it doesn't work. And Christianity did NOT cause the downfall of Rome. That's a really bad rewrite of history.

Are you now making the case that the only way Christianity has spread is through violence? Wow, you're just on fire tonight.

LostMarbels · Jul 15, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
So is this a return to Christian values? Or the great apostasy?

Yes.

Ana the Ist · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
Science is great as science. It's not great as a religion. Don't mix the two, it doesn't work.

Religion is great as religion...its not great as politics. Don't mix the two, it doesn't work.

ubicaritas · Jul 15, 2018

Liza B. said:
Guatemala does not have abject poverty because Christianity fails for the most part; but because the gov't is entirely corrupt and horrid. This should be obvious and can happen anywhere. No one says that Christianity makes perfection, and it's patently obvious that this is not Heaven YET. But by and large, yes, Christianity makes societies BETTER and atheism, by and large, has made them WORSE. Sweden being and outlier and Guatemala being an outlier. Absolutely.

I wouldn't characterize Sweden being predominantly atheistic, even if religious participation there is at historic lows. There is a lack of appreciation for distinctives within the Lutheran ethos that contribute to a lack of religious enthusiasm, perhaps (for good and bad), but the majority of people in Sweden continue to baptize their children in the Church, marry in the Church, and to request Christian burials. For a Lutheran, those typically are a bigger deal in measuring religious belonging.

In addition, Lutherans tend to be more private about their faith, especially in Europe. If you try to grill people about their beliefs, they tend to try to give the least controversial answers possible. Not because they have no beliefs but because they do not wish to be seen as divisive.

I fully agree that it is short-sighted to say Christian values have contributed nothing to the world. While I think religion is very much a mixed bag, it would be a mistake to see no value to anyone in it. That's very insulting to the many people that do find meaning in identifying with or belonging to a Christian religious tradition, to say nothing of discounting the contributions of Christians to western and global civilization.

KCfromNC · Jul 16, 2018

Liza B. said:
And there could be two parts to this: black voters who admit publicly they will vote for Trump, and black voters who are not admitting it but--seeing friends and family support--will pull that lever privately anyway.

Could be those things might happen in the future. But what definitely has happened was higher than normal black turnout helped elect a democratic senator in Alabama.

As I said, support like this is often exponential.

Yep, we've had what? 6 whole youtube videos so far?

KCfromNC · Jul 16, 2018

GoldenBoy89 said:
With the speed at which trends spread now thanks to social media, why is it taking so long for this "movement" to really gain traction?

Could be because right now Russian bot farms are focused more on Syria and the world cup.

Also because of the problems you mention - this looks a lot like non-Democrats telling other non-Democrats the reasons they hate liberals rather than actual people leaving the Democratic party.

KCfromNC · Jul 16, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Trump's support amongst black men has gone up from 5-6% to around 10-11%.

If that's true it must have gone down among other groups since his approval rating has been pretty steady for months now.

#walkaway

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