Wake Up And See The Real World!!!!

[Industriaan]

I am following the posts on this forum for about a week or 2 now, and i was wondering something: ARE YOU CREATIONISTS STUPID?? OR JUST BLIND??
My guess is that the evidence of evolution, and also for the theorie of evolution(which will be corrected until it matched evolution correctly), is so overwhelming that they just don't see.

But because evolution contradicts the bible u say:"it is wrong!"

The only base u have is a book written BY HUMANS a long time ago, full of contradictions.
Genesis is was written by people to try and copmrehend the world based on what they knew in that time.
That is the reason why science has proven the creation wrong.
And the only leg u have to stand on is:"But it is written" or "It was the hand off god who made the bible".
So a ask of u:"Do u believe all that u read?"
But if the bible is the hand off god, or the breath, why does genesis contradict not only SCIENCE, But also ITSELF??

The only thing i can think why some of u follow an old book is because u r brainwashed, and take no effort in trying to understand something, but just take the easy way out, and believe.

I pity you!

(oh yeah : Why in Gen1 does god create man and woman both at the same time, and in Gen 2 first Adam and then Eve)

 

[Tenka]

You know industriaan if you replace in your post the words "creationist" with "evolutionist" and "bible" with "science" you'd end up with a post quite similar to many of the creationist posts we get here denouncing evolution.

You could even leave the title unchanged.

 

[Battie]

Hello, Industriaan.

I am wondering who you hope to persuade with these insults. You may have valid points, but if you are already convinced that your audience does not have the mental capacity to understand you, then why do you even bother?

I can assure you that creationists as a whole are not stupid. Consider that most people are not scientists and that they are constantly bombarded with often conflicting information. There are also many creationist leaders who present their audience with evidence for creationism that might seem quite convincing to a layperson. The reasons for accepting creationism, I think, are quite complex. Calling someone stupid or blind does not explain why people who seem to be perfectly, even exceptionally, intelligent in every other area could somehow be duped by this one thing.

I know a lot of people who do intensive Bible study and still come out with the idea of a literal Genesis. So, while I may not agree with it, it's certainly not taking the "easy way out."

I say these things only because I cannot stand to see such blatent disrespect from someone, who, as far as I can tell, has made no effort to understand the mindset of those he is ridiculing. I hope you will stick around and enjoy the boards, but please do so with a kinder attitude in the future.

 

[Runilo]

I am following the posts on this forum for about a week or 2 now, and i was wondering something: ARE YOU CREATIONISTS STUPID?? OR JUST BLIND??
My guess is that the evidence of evolution, and also for the theorie of evolution(which will be corrected until it matched evolution correctly), is so overwhelming that they just don't see.

But because evolution contradicts the bible u say:"it is wrong!"

The only base u have is a book written BY HUMANS a long time ago, full of contradictions.
Genesis is was written by people to try and copmrehend the world based on what they knew in that time.
That is the reason why science has proven the creation wrong.
And the only leg u have to stand on is:"But it is written" or "It was the hand off god who made the bible".
So a ask of u:"Do u believe all that u read?"
But if the bible is the hand off god, or the breath, why does genesis contradict not only SCIENCE, But also ITSELF??

The only thing i can think why some of u follow an old book is because u r brainwashed, and take no effort in trying to understand something, but just take the easy way out, and believe.

I pity you!

(oh yeah : Why in Gen1 does god create man and woman both at the same time, and in Gen 2 first Adam and then Eve)

Right on. Just because an old book says something, then everybit of knowledge and logic is ignored

 

[TheInstant]

I must admit that I feel the same way, although I don't know if insults are going to help anything. I'm new to this debate and, when I first encountered someone arguing against evolution (using arguments that I have since discovered are "PRATTS") I was somewhat shocked. Later I looked into the things they were saying and found sound refutations for all of them. Unfortunately, due to my ignorance of the subject that person left the argument thinking he had made valid points. I'm here to learn enough that that sort of thing doesn't happen again, but I'd also like to understand the mindset a bit better. I'm just a little confused that this whole debate is for real.

 

[Hackett]

Hello, Industriaan.

I am wondering who you hope to persuade with these insults. You may have valid points, but if you are already convinced that your audience does not have the mental capacity to understand you, then why do you even bother?

I can assure you that creationists as a whole are not stupid. Consider that most people are not scientists and that they are constantly bombarded with often conflicting information. There are also many creationist leaders who present their audience with evidence for creationism that might seem quite convincing to a layperson. The reasons for accepting creationism, I think, are quite complex. Calling someone stupid or blind does not explain why people who seem to be perfectly, even exceptionally, intelligent in every other area could somehow be duped by this one thing.

I know a lot of people who do intensive Bible study and still come out with the idea of a literal Genesis. So, while I may not agree with it, it's certainly not taking the "easy way out."

I say these things only because I cannot stand to see such blatent disrespect from someone, who, as far as I can tell, has made no effort to understand the mindset of those he is ridiculing. I hope you will stick around and enjoy the boards, but please do so with a kinder attitude in the future.

Well spoken!

 

[Industriaan]

The reasons for accepting creationisme isn't complex, it is ignorance, a believe in something that was supposed a very long time ago, and blindness to everything science has proven or found.
ID was created by christians because if evolution is correct, the bible is wrong, a fact they could not accept.
And it is ok to believe, but religion is a form of ignorance (mabay build in in our race)
But it is an easy way out because u ignore all, and just believe what others tell u without the capabilaty to back that up.

I say these things only because I cannot stand to see such blatent disrespect from someone, who, as far as I can tell, has made no effort to understand the mindset of those he is ridiculing. I hope you will stick around and enjoy the boards, but please do so with a kinder attitude in the future.

For ur information, I wrote a paper about Genesis, exodus, ID and Creationsme 2 years ago (it was only 27 pages long, but for someone finishing high-school it isn't bad) and because of that paper i even got respect of the religion teachers in that school, so, Dream On

 

[Industriaan]

You know industriaan if you replace in your post the words "creationist" with "evolutionist" and "bible" with "science" you'd end up with a post quite similar to many of the creationist posts we get here denouncing evolution.

You could even leave the title unchanged.

Can be, but they don't have prove, evolutionists have proof.
(And now "It is written is no proof, if i write down GOD DOS NOT EXCIST!, does that counts as proof because it is written?)

--
Ni Hao

 

[TheInstant]

ID was created by christians because if evolution is correct, the bible is wrong, a fact they could not accept.

I just want to point out that although some Christians think it's either/or, most of them don't. I know plenty of Christians who accept the theory of evolution.

 

[Industriaan]

Hello, Industriaan.


I know a lot of people who do intensive Bible study and still come out with the idea of a literal Genesis. So, while I may not agree with it, it's certainly not taking the "easy way out."

After intensive bible study u must recognize it for what it is: stories from TWO culteres living in the same region about 3000-2000 BC

 

[Tomk80]

Can be, but they don't have prove, evolutionists have proof.
(And now "It is written is no proof, if i write down GOD DOS NOT EXCIST!, does that counts as proof because it is written?)

--
Ni Hao

No, we have evidence. Proof is for maths and alcohol.

Although I understand where your coming from in the above. In dutch (I'm going to assume you're dutch), 'evidence' and 'proof' translate to the same word, 'bewijs'. However, in english both terms have a slightly different meaning. When referring to evidence for evolution, it's best to refer to it as 'evidence', not proof. The latter implies an amount of certainty (absolute certainty) that cannot be achieved in science.

I do think you should moderate your tone. I agree with you that 'we' have the evidence on 'our' side. However, your OP isn't much more than mudslinging. It adds nothing constructive to the argument, it does not help anyone understand anything about the opposite position and it really is quite rude. I understand your frustration (if frustration triggered you to make the OP), but also would advice against acting on your frustration in this way.

 

[Tenka]

Can be, but they don't have prove, evolutionists have proof.
(And now "It is written is no proof, if i write down GOD DOS NOT EXCIST!, does that counts as proof because it is written?)

You didn't present any 'proof', you just insulted a whole section of people. So how are you different?

 

[Industriaan]

I knew the right word was evidence, i just did not know how to write is.
And for the evidence, look search with an open mind on this forum, u'll find all that u need.
And o yeah, i aslo starded with an open mind.

 

[Battie]

The reasons for accepting creationisme isn't complex, it is ignorance, a believe in something that was supposed a very long time ago, and blindness to everything science has proven or found.
ID was created by christians because if evolution is correct, the bible is wrong, a fact they could not accept.
And it is ok to believe, but religion is a form of ignorance (mabay build in in our race)
But it is an easy way out because u ignore all, and just believe what others tell u without the capabilaty to back that up.

Again, your quick dismissals to creationism, and now to religion in general, do not explain why intelligent people continue to believe these things. And, speaking as a former creationist, yeah, they are complex.

While some religious people are extremely closed-minded and do ignore all else, you cannot use that to describe everyone. Most religious people I know (myself included) are engaged in a constant effor to further understand the world and learn and consider new ideas.

I see an aggressiveness in your tone that betrays that you may not really be able to back up what you are saying about religion and simply wish to rant. If you truly have the knowledge to put religion in its place, then you will not need to resort to insults. A calm, respectual, knowledgable post would speak volumes more.

I could be completely wrong about that and I apologize if I am, but this is what you are conveying to me through your choice of words.

For ur information, I wrote a paper about Genesis, exodus, ID and Creationsme 2 years ago (it was only 27 pages long, but for someone finishing high-school it isn't bad) and because of that paper i even got respect of the religion teachers in that school, so, Dream On

That is impressive. However, I do hope your style was far more polite than it is here. You will have a difficult time earning respect here with the attitude you are displaying in this thread. You may understand the ideas, but I'm still fairly certain you do not understand the people. Please correct me if I'm wrong by changing your tone.

 

[llDayo]

Industriaan, I take offense to you calling my wife stupid. I may not share her beliefs but I at least respect them. I can only hope that someday she'll want to learn about what the theory is and the origins of her book but I would never try to force her to learn. Religion can mean different things to different people and faith is a very powerful influence. We, as humans, can be very susceptible to this because of our "higher intellect" compared to the rest of the animal world since we can ponder our own existence. It sucks that some do not want to test their faith (which, IMO, is one of the healthiest things a person can do to see how strong their beliefs really are) but insulting them will just make them ignore you. I certainly hope you change your attitude as someone who speaks in your tone will only fan the flames of ignorance.

 

[Industriaan]

Yes i wrote different in my paper.

The aggressivenes comes from what some people on this forum write, which makes no sense at all, conflictes with all reason and it caused some frustration.

Why some intelligent people still follow creationsm is because they ignore a lot of things, i would no know.

However i do believe that religion (sorry for those who will be insulted) stand in the way of science because they all have a background , which however interresting is it may be, pure fictionel. And because of that background fundamentalists start to exsist.
And then u have situations like in the USA where religious groups force students to learn ID, and start their brainwashing campange.
Because what is easyer to accept a difficult reality that hasn't competly figgerd out yet, or a "theory" that is complete which includes a god or a higher force who directs all?

And with religion i donnot confine myself with christanity

About the mud-trouwing: i realised 2 years ago that talking with hardcore creationists and literalists causes no effect because they donnot use their common sense.
Any debate with them is useless because they ignore science and u a deffence which comes down to: but in the bible is written...
So i tought, let's fight the enemy with it's own weapans: throwing back the mud instead real arguments which the do not want to understand.

--
Ni Hao

 

[Industriaan]

Industriaan, I take offense to you calling my wife stupid. I may not share her beliefs but I at least respect them. I can only hope that someday she'll want to learn about what the theory is and the origins of her book but I would never try to force her to learn. Religion can mean different things to different people and faith is a very powerful influence. We, as humans, can be very susceptible to this because of our "higher intellect" compared to the rest of the animal world since we can ponder our own existence. It sucks that some do not want to test their faith (which, IMO, is one of the healthiest things a person can do to see how strong their beliefs really are) but insulting them will just make them ignore you. I certainly hope you change your attitude as someone who speaks in your tone will only fan the flames of ignorance.

I did not say stupid, i said are creationists stupid or BLIND???

--
Ni Hao

 

[llDayo]

Industriaan, I, as well as others on this board, have seen creationists "see the light" more than once. The only thing anyone can do is hope they're willing to put their beliefs aside for a few moments and see what science has discovered. Some do that while others don't. Have you ever heard the saying "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink"? That's what this is about. Show them the knowledge and just hope they become thirsty.

 

[llDayo]

I did not say stupid, i said are creationists stupid or BLIND???

--
Ni Hao

Since I know fully well that she can see the only other choice is the former. So yes. Your choice of wording indicated that you feel she is stupid. I know from experience that she is not.

 

[Industriaan]

I ment blind for what is really happening.