"Wait until the end to remove corruption and persecution"

VCR-2000

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A large group of Christians accept and believe in the idea that the only way our society will only become worse and worse, it can only go in one direction and the only way "out" is that the end of times come (according to the Bible) and that all the "righteous" people (possibly a really small number too) will merely be removed and taken up to God's kingdom.

Well I lamented decline on this forum before, I dare to question this plan of God's if we assume that is his plan which we can't know. My personal envisioning is that God will only intervene to stop whoever/whatever is going on up top that is pushing specific agendas on everyone (if only man himself had those guts anymore) and not necessarily say it must be the end of the earth now as we know it. I don't claim to be excited to go to your idea of Heaven sometimes, I'm more indifferent I guess. With God, it's completely arbitrary--there is no reason we can see down here for ourselves.

I am supposed to believe and accept whatever God has planned according to the Bible, no matter how upset or angry some of it might make me.

I don't think I can deep down, because I live in a country that has freedom of expression and rule of law instead of having my will be influenced by one single man. I also thought that was the type of society we were trying to avoid and slip into. That was my mini end rant.
 

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I do think that things will get worse for humanity, though there will likely be some bright spots amidst it all. I don't think that it's because God wants it to be miserable for us, but that He allowed us the freedom to make choices about how we would live (as individuals and as societies), and we generally use this freedom poorly.
 
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ViaCrucis

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A large group of Christians accept and believe in the idea that the only way our society will only become worse and worse, it can only go in one direction and the only way "out" is that the end of times come (according to the Bible) and that all the "righteous" people (possibly a really small number too) will merely be removed and taken up to God's kingdom.

Not as large as one might imagine. The view you're describing really only applies to Dispensationalists. Dispensationalism is a view that emerged in the 1820's among the Plymouth Brethren, primarily from the preaching and teaching of one John Nelson Darby, an Irish ex-Anglican priest and one of the founders of the Plymouth Brethren. Darby's ideas initially didn't gain much traction, but then there was an explosion of religious fervor in the 19th century, and some Dispensationalist acolytes such as Dwight L. Moody who while acting as an evangelist in the United Kingdom came into contact with the Plymouth Brethren, and when he came back to the US began preaching Dispensationalism in his evangelistic missions throughout the country. Another, Cyrus Scofield, ended up converting to Dispensationalism through Moody's teachings, Scofield would then go on to produce the Scofield Reference Bible, an annotated study Bible that contained explicitly Dispensationalist interpretations of biblical passages; the Scofield Reference Bible became the most widely popular study Bible in the United States. In the late 19th and early 20th century Dispensationalists had founded a number of Bible Schools and seminaries across the United States, such as the Moody Bible Institute, and Dallas Theological Seminary. And thus began the great conversion of many American Fundamentalists and Evangelicals to Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism then saw another boom in popularity beginning in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, with the Jesus People Movement, the rise of Popular Evangelicalism, various popular Dispensationalist works such as Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth", and also the Left Behind series of novels from Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins; along with numerous books, movies, and popular music all pushing the popular Dispensationalist narrative from the Evangelical world.

Here's the thing, it never exactly caught on outside of Evangelicalism. Most Mainline Protestants simply flat out rejected it, Catholics and Orthodox likewise had no interest in it. As such Dispensationalism remains, chiefly, a peculiar theological system unique to the kind of Evangelicalism that arose in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The majority of Protestants from most of the major Protestant traditions (Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc), as well as Catholics and Orthodox do not, and never have, subscribed to the Dispensationalist narrative.

Instead, the majority of Christians still subscribe to the more historic beliefs of the Christian Church:

That Christ will return, but we don't know when, and when He does the dead will be raised, and God will make all things new.

Further, we don't subscribe to defeatism, as though, "Well, things will only get worse, so we can't do anything to help anyone or improve anything" that simply is antithetical to the spirit of Christian ethics, wherein we are called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help the poor, the sick, the naked, and all of the least of these. It's why, for hundreds of years, the Church was in the business of establishing hospitals, and providing care for the hungry, the poor, etc.

You know how most churches have either an offering box in the back, or pass an offering plate around? That isn't to make church leaders wealthy (though some unscrupulous and horrible people abuse it for that reason), the point of the collection has its origins in taking collections for the poor. It wasn't always money either, farmers would bring crops, bakers would bring bread, tailors provided clothes, basically everyone in the community offered some of their goods to the local church, who would in turn redistribute those goods for those in need. That is the historic purpose of taking collections. In the modern day, in places like the US, that collection is also used to help pay for things such as land taxes and to pay utility bills, since in the US churches are tax-exempt non-profit entities, churches have to self-sustain themselves financially.

In other words, from an historic Christian perspective we aren't supposed to be idly sitting around twiddling our thumbs until Doomsday, we're supposed to be living our lives here in the world, actively loving our neighbor, and aiming to live out our faith in our vocation--as siblings, friends, children, parents, spouses, carpenters, lawyers, bakers, construction workers, doctors, nurses, or even as just "that person over there".

Christ did not have very good things to say about the servant who, rather than using his talent (a significant amount of money) for good, simply buried it in the ground and waited for his master to return.

Indeed, the overarching theme of the Olivet Discourse is that Christians shouldn't be worried about the end of the world or when it is, but instead to be focused on being faithful servants, the Olivet Discourse concludes with Jesus talking about how, at the Judgment, the question we get asked is how we treated the least of these, "For I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was naked, I was sick, I was in prison, I was a foreigner", "Whatever you did/didn't do to the least of these, you did/didn't do, unto Me".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Mark Quayle

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A large group of Christians accept and believe in the idea that the only way our society will only become worse and worse, it can only go in one direction and the only way "out" is that the end of times come (according to the Bible) and that all the "righteous" people (possibly a really small number too) will merely be removed and taken up to God's kingdom.

Well I lamented decline on this forum before, I dare to question this plan of God's if we assume that is his plan which we can't know. My personal envisioning is that God will only intervene to stop whoever/whatever is going on up top that is pushing specific agendas on everyone (if only man himself had those guts anymore) and not necessarily say it must be the end of the earth now as we know it. I don't claim to be excited to go to your idea of Heaven sometimes, I'm more indifferent I guess. With God, it's completely arbitrary--there is no reason we can see down here for ourselves.

I am supposed to believe and accept whatever God has planned according to the Bible, no matter how upset or angry some of it might make me.

I don't think I can deep down, because I live in a country that has freedom of expression and rule of law instead of having my will be influenced by one single man. I also thought that was the type of society we were trying to avoid and slip into. That was my mini end rant.
I can only guess this was brought up by a reference to the parable of the wheat and the tares. If not, please read it. God could take his scythe to the crop now, but for now there isn't any reason to pull the weeds, because to do so would uproot the crop. The decline is going to continue, but (just a thought) if you want more than deistic belief, notice that God restrains the evil that would be much worse.

This life is not for this life. If you need a reason for God to have created, do a long large study on the Bride of Christ.
 
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VCR-2000

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Not as large as one might imagine. The view you're describing really only applies to Dispensationalists. Dispensationalism is a view that emerged in the 1820's among the Plymouth Brethren, primarily from the preaching and teaching of one John Nelson Darby, an Irish ex-Anglican priest and one of the founders of the Plymouth Brethren. Darby's ideas initially didn't gain much traction, but then there was an explosion of religious fervor in the 19th century, and some Dispensationalist acolytes such as Dwight L. Moody who while acting as an evangelist in the United Kingdom came into contact with the Plymouth Brethren, and when he came back to the US began preaching Dispensationalism in his evangelistic missions throughout the country. Another, Cyrus Scofield, ended up converting to Dispensationalism through Moody's teachings, Scofield would then go on to produce the Scofield Reference Bible, an annotated study Bible that contained explicitly Dispensationalist interpretations of biblical passages; the Scofield Reference Bible became the most widely popular study Bible in the United States. In the late 19th and early 20th century Dispensationalists had founded a number of Bible Schools and seminaries across the United States, such as the Moody Bible Institute, and Dallas Theological Seminary. And thus began the great conversion of many American Fundamentalists and Evangelicals to Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism then saw another boom in popularity beginning in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, with the Jesus People Movement, the rise of Popular Evangelicalism, various popular Dispensationalist works such as Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth", and also the Left Behind series of novels from Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins; along with numerous books, movies, and popular music all pushing the popular Dispensationalist narrative from the Evangelical world.

Here's the thing, it never exactly caught on outside of Evangelicalism. Most Mainline Protestants simply flat out rejected it, Catholics and Orthodox likewise had no interest in it. As such Dispensationalism remains, chiefly, a peculiar theological system unique to the kind of Evangelicalism that arose in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The majority of Protestants from most of the major Protestant traditions (Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc), as well as Catholics and Orthodox do not, and never have, subscribed to the Dispensationalist narrative.

Instead, the majority of Christians still subscribe to the more historic beliefs of the Christian Church:

That Christ will return, but we don't know when, and when He does the dead will be raised, and God will make all things new.

Further, we don't subscribe to defeatism, as though, "Well, things will only get worse, so we can't do anything to help anyone or improve anything" that simply is antithetical to the spirit of Christian ethics, wherein we are called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help the poor, the sick, the naked, and all of the least of these. It's why, for hundreds of years, the Church was in the business of establishing hospitals, and providing care for the hungry, the poor, etc.

You know how most churches have either an offering box in the back, or pass an offering plate around? That isn't to make church leaders wealthy (though some unscrupulous and horrible people abuse it for that reason), the point of the collection has its origins in taking collections for the poor. It wasn't always money either, farmers would bring crops, bakers would bring bread, tailors provided clothes, basically everyone in the community offered some of their goods to the local church, who would in turn redistribute those goods for those in need. That is the historic purpose of taking collections. In the modern day, in places like the US, that collection is also used to help pay for things such as land taxes and to pay utility bills, since in the US churches are tax-exempt non-profit entities, churches have to self-sustain themselves financially.

In other words, from an historic Christian perspective we aren't supposed to be idly sitting around twiddling our thumbs until Doomsday, we're supposed to be living our lives here in the world, actively loving our neighbor, and aiming to live out our faith in our vocation--as siblings, friends, children, parents, spouses, carpenters, lawyers, bakers, construction workers, doctors, nurses, or even as just "that person over there".

Christ did not have very good things to say about the servant who, rather than using his talent (a significant amount of money) for good, simply buried it in the ground and waited for his master to return.

Indeed, the overarching theme of the Olivet Discourse is that Christians shouldn't be worried about the end of the world or when it is, but instead to be focused on being faithful servants, the Olivet Discourse concludes with Jesus talking about how, at the Judgment, the question we get asked is how we treated the least of these, "For I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was naked, I was sick, I was in prison, I was a foreigner", "Whatever you did/didn't do to the least of these, you did/didn't do, unto Me".

-CryptoLutheran
Did I ever get to tell you how informed and well-read you sound to so many people?
 
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VCR-2000

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I have the longing for the "good" parts of society we lost to come back, I err that the past was better in a lot of ways, even secular-speaking for me. I wish we can see it redeemed. I am growing up younger and I don't like the society we are becoming, culturally and even technology-wise. One day everybody will only be attached to their computers and a digital interface instead of going out to places and interacting naturally.

I have starting feeling like this a few years ago.
 
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