Vote for supporters of abortion never justified, Vatican official says

[Fantine]

Sotomayor and Kagan replaced liberal justices. The composition of the Supreme Court hasn't changed.

And don't worry. Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts and Kennedy made sure that future elections will be delivered to Big Business by allowing corporations to spend as much money as they can muster on political advertising.

The only problem is this: We all know that all those pro-life Republicans have big business and sticking it to the low and middle class as their top priority--and if they can win elections just by letting corporations buy misleading advertising pushing their cause, they might not need the religious right and pro-life groups anymore.

They can just win at all by fraud and deception.

 

[JoabAnias]

Sotomayor and Kagan replaced liberal justices. The composition of the Supreme Court hasn't changed.

You can't possibly approve or Kagan do you?

 

[dies-l]

What should a Catholic do when all of the viable candidates for a given office are pro-choice/pro-abortion? Should they vote for the one who is less so or should they abstain from voting or should they consider other issues or some combination of the above?

 

[Fantine]

You can't possibly approve or Kagan do you?

Kagan, like most other recently appointed justices, had a very small paper trail.

While one might surmise that she is probably a liberal, and might guess that she may be pro-choice or pro-gay marriage, there is no historical proof to back that guess up.

I didn't guess that Alito or Roberts would allow large multi-national corporations to buy elections with hundreds of expensive 30 second TV soundbites (although I certainly would not have put it past Scalia and Thomas.) Their legal records didn't show that they wanted to sell our democracy to the Wal-Marts of the world.

 

[JoabAnias]

Kagan, like most other recently appointed justices, had a very small paper trail.

While one might surmise that she is probably a liberal, and might guess that she may be pro-choice or pro-gay marriage, there is no historical proof to back that guess up.

There was tons of evidence against her. I figured you didn't know it.
Read Susan B Anthony's list and the like. Its easy to find.

Its not about her being liberal to me, she is immoral and a liar.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[JoabAnias]

What should a Catholic do when all of the viable candidates for a given office are pro-choice/pro-abortion? Should they vote for the one who is less so or should they abstain from voting or should they consider other issues or some combination of the above?

It depends.

The Bishops teach us to weigh all issues proportionately and choose the lesser evils in a properly formed conscience.

There could be instances when that might mean abstaining or going third party but would depend on all the circumstances.

The predestinate need to vote a right conscience in hopes that someday, right conscience will become the majority.

 

[Fantine]

Kagan hasn't participated in enough decisions yet for me to form an opinion of her.

I don't look at the Susan B. Anthony site as a credible source from the little I've read there.

As I understand it, she was one of the more conservative members of the short list.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Michie,

Great find. I have not read the thread yet but I HOPE we all take this to heart when we vote.

Cardinal-designate Raymond L. Burke, who heads the Vatican's highest tribunal, made the comments in an interview with the U.S. advocacy group Catholic Action for Faith and Family. A video of the comments on abortion were posted online in late October, a few days before the U.S. elections Nov. 2.

"No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what's called the 'right to choice' of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion," he said.

Seems like very clear direction from the Church in regards to voting and candidates who are Pro Choice. We cannot vote for them in good conscious knowing the Church's stance this well.

I think Catholics need to enforce this at th polls and send a message that we will only vote for PRO LIFE candidates and that this comes before partisan politics. After all there is no reason a Republican as well as a Democrat could not be PRO LIFE.

 

[dies-l]

It depends.

The Bishops teach us to weigh all issues proportionately and choose the lesser evils in a properly formed conscience.

There could be instances when that might mean abstaining or going third party but would depend on all the circumstances.

The predestinate need to vote a right conscience in hopes that someday, right conscience will become the majority.

Thanks for clarifying. I went to a very conservative Catholic law school, and the two election years I was there, this topic came up. Both times, the major races were pretty cut and dry by this standard, but as I'm sure you know we have a governor's race in our state right now where both major candidates are pro-choice. So, I was wondering how this standard would apply in this race.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Voting for the "other guy" won't change abortion legislation anyway. He/she won't touch it. Either way, you're voting for someone who won't help the pro-life cause. Depressing.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

Voting for the "other guy" won't change abortion legislation anyway. He/she won't touch it. Either way, you're voting for someone who won't help the pro-life cause. Depressing.

Very depressing. Most often in the US, we end up with "I support the woman's right to choose!"running against "Abortion is awful and I want to see Roe V Wade overturned, but I'm not really going to do anything to restrict abortions. Also, if she can find a doctor who says that her life is in danger, then a woman is free to choose to abort her child."

It's open laissez-faire killing of the unborn vs. wink-wink-nudge-nudge laissez-faire killing of the unborn. the only hope is for Catholics to lead the way and refuse to vote for any candidate who does not support life from natural conception to natural death and everywhere in between in every single case. When we demmand good candidates, we will get them. Until then, we'll keep getting what we've been getting for the last 40 years.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I sometimes feel that Republicans will do even less to end abortion than Democrats because if they were ever successful in ending abortion, then they may end up losing much support from those who only vote based on that one issue. I know if abortion wasn't an issue in this country, I wouldn't ever consider voting Republican again, as outside of being pro-life, I have nothing else in common with their agenda.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Very depressing. Most often in the US, we end up with "I support the woman's right to choose!"running against "Abortion is awful and I want to see Roe V Wade overturned, but I'm not really going to do anything to restrict abortions. Also, if she can find a doctor who says that her life is in danger, then a woman is free to choose to abort her child."

It's open laissez-faire killing of the unborn vs. wink-wink-nudge-nudge laissez-faire killing of the unborn. the only hope is for Catholics to lead the way and refuse to vote for any candidate who does not support life from natural conception to natural death and everywhere in between in every single case. When we demmand good candidates, we will get them. Until then, we'll keep getting what we've been getting for the last 40 years.

But what if there is no candidate like that?

 

[EmbattledBunny]

But what if there is no candidate like that?

There is always one. If there isn't, be the one. A wise man onece said that a jouney of something something cost a thousand dollars, or something like that. If you want change in this world, you have to overpay upfront.

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.

 

[JoabAnias]

Thanks for clarifying. I went to a very conservative Catholic law school, and the two election years I was there, this topic came up. Both times, the major races were pretty cut and dry by this standard, but as I'm sure you know we have a governor's race in our state right now where both major candidates are pro-choice. So, I was wondering how this standard would apply in this race.

I am probably abstaining in the gubernatorial vote in MI this year. I will either wash my hands of both candidates or choose the lessor of two evils proportionately. I suspect, who appears to be the lessor of the two evils - (Rick Snyder holds a 20-point lead) in MI is going to win without my vote.

I supported the most pro-life candidate in the primaries (Mike Cox) and of the top two, (he and Hokestra) they effectively canceled each other out leaving Snyder by default. The democrat was unopposed. I felt slighted by the personhood movement which I think made a difference in the pro-life camp. They were strongly for Hokestra who was about as pro-life as George Tillers killer - Scott Roeder.

Then right on down the line:

Secretary of State - Ruth Johnson

Attorney General - Bill Schuette

15th Congressional - Rob Steele

7th State Senate - Patrick Colbeck

23rd State House - Pat Somerville

State Board of Education
Eileen Weiser
Richard Zeile
Both Candidates Meet Criteria

Regents of the University of Michigan
Andrea Fisher-Newman *
Andrew Richner *
Both Candidates Meet Criteria

Board of Trustees Michigan State University
Mitch Lyons
Brian Breslin
Both Candidates Meet Criteria

Governor of Wayne State University
Diane Dunaskiss *
Danialle Karmanos
Both Candidates Meet Criteria

Michigan State Supreme Court
Bob Young *
Mary Beth Kelly

Wayne 3rd Circuit Court
Incumbent James Chylinski *
Lita Popke *
Muriel Hughes *
Gershwin Drain *
Timothy Kenny *
Brian Sullivan *

Wayne 33rd District Court
Edward Nykiel *


PROPOSAL 10-1A PROPOSAL TO CONVENE A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE PURPOSE OF DRAFTING A GENERAL REVISION OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION
Vote NO

* indicates that the candidate is incumbent



Which all are recomended by Right to Life of MI (https://secure.rtl.org/apps/voters/ballot) and should be as proportionately in line with:

Faithful Citizenship

Faithful Citizenship > Bishops' Statement

as possible.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

There is always one. If there isn't, be the one. A wise man onece said that a jouney of something something cost a thousand dollars, or something like that. If you want change in this world, you have to overpay upfront.

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.

Stop thinking??? You sure about that? Sounds like gnosis to me.