Visitors center welcoming thread (TCL members please check in here)

[Tangible]

Here is your new question thread within the main forum

http://www.christianforums.com/t7410209/

Hey, where'd all the responses go, Jim?

 

[Jim47]

Hey, where'd all the responses go, Jim?

I left them in the origional thread as the request was only to start a new thread with her first post

 

[Hediru]

Hi all!
I'm new to this part of CF. Yes, I know that my denominational icon says "Methodist", but that is only where my membership currently lies. This past June, I became a Youth Minister at a local ELCA congregation, and I am quickly learning the Lutheran way. So, I just thought I'd introduce myself to all of you, and see what kinds of connections I can make!

 

[Jim47]

Greetings Hediru

Nice of you to drop in on us, we always enjoy visitors and their questions, and of course encourage you to look deeper into Lutheranism.

Feel free to join us in discussions below or start a new thread yourself. I hope you enjoy your visits here and we get to know one another.

 

[Lazerboy]

Hello, yesterday I was doing a small amount of reading from the Book of Concord, and as a result have a few questions to ask which I hope some here will be kind enough to answer.

Do you Lutherans really believe that water baptism is required for salvation? I thought Luther's life-changing discovery in the Bible was that the just shall live by faith. What about the thief on the cross? He wasn't baptized, but Jesus told him that he would be in paradise with Christ.

Do you Lutherans really make the sign of the cross? I thought only Catholics did that. Do you also do such things as venerate Mary and do the rosary?

Do you Lutherans really confess to a priest? My understanding is that we have but one advocate, Jesus Christ, and that we are to confess to God through Him.

What exactly is the Lutheran view of the Communion elements? You believe that Christ is present in and around the elements, but that they do not actually become the body and blood of Christ, is that it, or...?

Thank you, and I look forward to your responses.

 

[LilLamb219]

Ahh...these are some very good questions. Welcome to our little area

If you have time to post these in the main section, you'll get a LOT of answers. I'll briefly go through some of the questions now:

Do you Lutherans really believe that water baptism is required for salvation?

We believe it is necessary but not absolutely necessary. In our baptisms we receive the benefits of the cross and that is because God attached His promises to the waters of baptism. We are still all saved in the same way, by grace through faith and in baptism, we receive faith in order to believe so we may have eternal life. We can also receive faith by hearing His Word and believe so we may have eternal life.

What about the thief on the cross?

Scriptures do not state if he had been baptized or not. Also, as I stated above, baptism is not absolutely necessary. If the thief had not been baptized, but believed...if he had not been on the cross, don't you think he would have WANTED to have gotten baptized in the near future knowing all the benefits that baptism brings? I do. He had faith by hearing the Word who was incidentally hanging on the cross next to him.

Do you Lutherans really make the sign of the cross?

Some do, some don't. No biggie. Not mandatory, nor forbidden.

Do you also do such things as venerate Mary and do the rosary?

We honor Mary as the mother of God, but not much more. There is a Lutheran rosary out there somewhere that is different from the Roman Catholic one.

Do you Lutherans really confess to a priest?

We have confession in our worship service, but also we can confess privately to our pastors if we desire it. Remember what Jesus said concerning the keys and how it is by Jesus' authority that pastors can forgive sins. This forgiveness is the same forgiveness won for us on the cross. It's not a totally new forgiveness.

What exactly is the Lutheran view of the Communion elements? You believe that Christ is present in and around the elements, but that they do not actually become the body and blood of Christ, is that it, or...?

We try to not explain too much into the elements than scriptures declare. We believe the bread is the body and the wine is the blood during communion...because Jesus said, This is my body, this is my blood.

 

[Tangible]

Lazerboy, here is a pretty good reference for what Confessional* Lutherans believe.

Doctrines

Also - if you like to listen to audio, here are three really good explanations of core Lutheran doctrines presented on the Lutheran radio show "Issues, Etc." by the host Pastor Todd Wilken and his guest Pastor Daniel Preus.

Law & Gospel, Baptism & Communion, and Conversion

*("Confessional" means that we agree with the Lutheran Confessions contained in the Book of Concord because they are an accurate theological summary of the Truth revealed in Scripture.)

 

[lux et lex]

New to this area, ELCA.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

"Closet Lutheran" checking in.

My church membership is Assemblies of God, but every time I explain my soteriology people say "That's a good explanation of the Lutheran position." So I guess I'm with y'all that far at least, and I do enjoy reading Luther (which is no doubt where I got those ideas -- he makes more sense to me on the subject than anybody else I've come across).

If I were to be an actual Lutheran (which could happen someday -- I like beer, liturgy, and theological discussions, and I'm in substantial agreement with the Small Catechism), I'd have to be ELCA, since I insist on open communion and the ordination of women.

 

[Lazerboy]

Lazerboy, here is a pretty good reference for what Confessional* Lutherans believe.

Doctrines

Also - if you like to listen to audio, here are three really good explanations of core Lutheran doctrines presented on the Lutheran radio show "Issues, Etc." by the host Pastor Todd Wilken and his guest Pastor Daniel Preus.

Law & Gospel, Baptism & Communion, and Conversion

*("Confessional" means that we agree with the Lutheran Confessions contained in the Book of Concord because they are an accurate theological summary of the Truth revealed in Scripture.)

Hi CantateDomino, I've enjoyed reading your posts before in at least one other forum. Thank you for the link. Interesting reading to be sure.

Do you have a link that compares Lutheran beliefs with Catholic ones?

 

[Lazerboy]

Ahh...these are some very good questions. Welcome to our little area

Thank you for your answers LilLamb.

If you have time to post these in the main section, you'll get a LOT of answers. I'll briefly go through some of the questions now:

Thank you again. I shall post in the main section as you suggest.

We believe it is necessary but not absolutely necessary. In our baptisms we receive the benefits of the cross and that is because God attached His promises to the waters of baptism. We are still all saved in the same way, by grace through faith and in baptism, we receive faith in order to believe so we may have eternal life. We can also receive faith by hearing His Word and believe so we may have eternal life.

Eh? You believe it's necessary but not necessary? An interesting position. Or is it that you believe that what's necessary is faith, and that one media through which God gives that faith is baptism?

Scriptures do not state if he had been baptized or not. Also, as I stated above, baptism is not absolutely necessary. If the thief had not been baptized, but believed...if he had not been on the cross, don't you think he would have WANTED to have gotten baptized in the near future knowing all the benefits that baptism brings? I do. He had faith by hearing the Word who was incidentally hanging on the cross next to him.

He probably would have been baptized if he was off the cross and had even heard of such a thing as baptism. It is not stated that he had. I agree that what is important is the God-Word.

We have confession in our worship service, but also we can confess privately to our pastors if we desire it. Remember what Jesus said concerning the keys and how it is by Jesus' authority that pastors can forgive sins. This forgiveness is the same forgiveness won for us on the cross. It's not a totally new forgiveness.

The idea of confessing to a pastor for forgiveness of sins is alien to me. What are these "keys" of which you speak? Coming from an evangelical Baptist background, these concepts are all new to me. We are taught to confess directly to God through Christ.

Thank you again for your answers. They are appreciated.

 

[Edial]

"Closet Lutheran" checking in.

My church membership is Assemblies of God, but every time I explain my soteriology people say "That's a good explanation of the Lutheran position." So I guess I'm with y'all that far at least, and I do enjoy reading Luther (which is no doubt where I got those ideas -- he makes more sense to me on the subject than anybody else I've come across).

If I were to be an actual Lutheran (which could happen someday -- I like beer, liturgy, and theological discussions, and I'm in substantial agreement with the Small Catechism), I'd have to be ELCA, since I insist on open communion and the ordination of women.

On occasions beer is a great equalizer.

 

[Edial]

New to this area, ELCA.

Welcome.

Ed

 

[Tangible]

Lazerboy - I'm going to copy your last post over to your new thread in the main section and keep the discussion going there.

 

[finn_warrior]

Hi, am new here. 27 is the age tomorrow, I hail from Nordic hinterland called Finland, Europe. I belong to Lutheran state Church, which still most (about 80%) of the Finns still belong to. Today the Finnish Church is something like an umbrella church for many distinct minstries and individuals, both liberal and conservative. The official views of the Church though, are quite liberal (will soon enough embrace gay clergy and have been supported women clergy for about 25 years already - also one pastor changed his gender quite recently!), perhaps similar with Anglican state Church of England and Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

Personally I don't feel at home very much with the modern views of the Finnish Church, though it is a fact that most Finnish belong to this church and it still is a home for also more conservative movements inside the church. I do attend meetings and mass of the more conservative, Confessional Lutherans called the Luther Foundation [of Finland] (it is yet not it's own Church, yet though - still a movement inside the church).
I haven't always been a Lutheran, but reading the Cathecisms and the Book of Concord as well as reading and studying the Bible trough and trough for a literally dozen times both in Finnish and English I did found the Lutheran doctrine and practice as the most similar to my thoughts and wishes.

One thing I do like about the Finnish Church is the Episcopal (bishopric) Church Order it has (and is, I think, of Continuing Succession). I also have learned to love liturgy and mass, though alongside with it one should attend free Bible study classes and other meetings.

I consider myself as a Confessional Lutheran, Catholic and Christian. I am conservative with my views on the Bible and Doctrine, and moderate with my views in life and practice (though I am strict not to accept atheist, female and gay clergy even though I can take communin from them if happen to be so - I am not a donatist. And I do not judge them to hell etc.).

I look forward to many good moments here with other chirstians and ask for prayers.

Yours truly

 

[filosofer]

Howdy, and welcome!

May God bless your study and growth as a Christian, confessing the faith as a Lutheran.

 

[RobsBabe]

Hmm. Didn't see this before, so checking in because it says I'm supposta!

 

[AngCath]

I didn't say in my thread, but I'll be joining ELCA.

 

[seajoy]

I didn't say in my thread, but I'll be joining ELCA.

Are you really liberal? Cause just about anything goes in the ELCA. Have you considered LCMS, WELS, AALC, ELS? All worth checking out.

 

[cajunman4life]

Greetings all. I've been a lurker for a while, might as well introduce myself so I'm not that guy you call the cops on...

I'm Aaron, live in rural Arizona. I was raised until about 11 in the ELCA (I'm not sure the ELCA was the ELCA then, but the church I was brought up in is part of it now...), then began attending a KJVO baptist church, then no church, and about a year ago began fellowshipping with a local LCMS church. As I'm very conservative (politically and theologically) I'm ok in the LCMS.

As I study the book of concord I find I'm in near total agreement with it. I lean amillennial in my eschatology, so I fit right in in that regard (always had a hard time with the "secret rapture" thing).

Veteran of the US Military, served one tour in Afghanistan in 2007. After 7 years of service I got out in 2008 (I joined August of 2001, and we all know what happened shortly thereafter).

I look forward to fellowshipping with you all here! Any questions just ask.