O
OObi
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Okay, what does everyone here think about vacuum energy and virtual particles. Something comes from nothing, no need for God. Any thoughts? (hope so)
In Christ, OObi
In Christ, OObi
OObi said:Okay, what does everyone here think about vacuum energy and virtual particles. Something comes from nothing, no need for God. Any thoughts? (hope so)
In Christ, OObi
Even if you accept the proof for virtual particles that "borrowed" from some unknown energy source to become Real particles..the problem becomes..where did the energy source come from in the first place.relspace said:You know I once wrote a paper on explaining Quantum Mechanics on the basis of virtual particles and gave it my advisor in the physics department. He didn't like it. He said that He thought that virtual particles were an artifact of perturbation theory. It has taken me a while to understand what he meant. Reality at the quantum level is basically wavelike and quite deterministic too. It is only in nonlinear amplification processes in which the quantum and macroscopic levels of reality are forced to interact (as in the case of a measurement) does the wave collapse and the particle nature of these entities are revealed, so to speak, (it is also only in these events where determinism breaks down). I therefore suspect that the use of virtual particles is only one way of explaining the Cassimir effect and that therefore the Cassimir effect does not really prove the existence of virtual particles.
However, I think this is just another example of how we can visualize what is going on in these quantum effects in many different ways.
However, with that said, I do believe that the principle behind the idea of virtual particles namely the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle represents the true boundary of the physical universe at which physical causality breaks down because this is where causes from outside the physical universe can intrude.
You can believe that energy appears from nowhere if you want, but I don't. I think there is energy with a very definite mathematical form which we know as the physical universe. Its form consists of the space-time, force, momentum, action, etc. relationships between all of its parts (which are described by the science of physics). Then I think there is free energy which is not bound to this form, and therefore outside space-time and the laws of physics.
It is in this free energy which I believe that spirit exists -- energy bound to its own form quite apart from the physical universe or anything else. You could say that each spirit is like its own little universe. These spirits interact with the physical universe in these nonlinear amplification wave collapse events. Those type of events with which we are most familiar are the choices we make in our lives which provide us with this instinctive feeling that we are the cause of our own actions in this almost completely determistic world we live in, while simultaneously giving more definite form to the spirit and making it what it is. Thus we are truly responsible for own actions while at the same time our actions define who and what we are.
These spirits, being outside space, time and the laws of physics are naturally eternal, and by their choices in life they can forge relationships with other people that will endure after their connection with the physical world is severed. But without a relationship with God they are doomed to stagnation, boredom, depression, etc... which is spiritual death.
SaintAugustine said:If you accept the proof for virtual particles, that "borrowed" from some unknown energy source to become real particles...you still have to account for the energy source.
Strange. You obviously did not read what I wrote. Although I did not actually say where all the energy comes from. The answer to that could not be more obvious. All the energy in this universe was originally supplied by God, so no doubt all the energy outside this physical universe also originally came from God as well.
shernren said:While I agree with you conditionally (given the current status of science) I don't think it would be wise to hold on to "putting God and the spiritual realm in quantum uncertainty" with an iron grip. It's a little like the elan vital (life force) of olden biology. Surely that must have been God - without Him, we are just lifeless matter! And then somebody came along and discovered biochemistry. If someone had said "well, God doesn't seem to be all that present in the physical universe, but we know that science can't explain or explore the elan vital and so we know that God has brought that in from outside science and its universe" that person would end up with egg on his face.
Not a full-scale disagreement, but a word of caution.
shernren said:Am curious about this. In a vacuum diagram, the sum of the energies of all particles present are non-zero, right?
shernren said:When they inter-annihilate at the end of the vacuum diagram, where does the energy go in order to balance the Law of Mass-Energy Conservation on a macro scale?