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Virginia Tech and Calvinism

Boxmaker

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[FONT=&quot]As a believer in Calvinism, how do you explain the killer at Virginia Tech? Was it predestined or was it a sinner from whom God removed His favor and let the sinners natural nature dictate the resulting actions?

I ask because I have been reading "Chosen by God," by R.C. Sproul and the question of how God hardens a persons heart came up. Sprouls explanation does not exactly square with what the Westminster Confession of Faith.

I would like to know how you deal with something like Virginia tech.[/FONT]
 
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[FONT=&quot]As a believer in Calvinism, how do you explain the killer at Virginia Tech? Was it predestined or was it a sinner from whom God removed His favor and let the sinners natural nature dictate the resulting actions?

I ask because I have been reading "Chosen by God," by R.C. Sproul and the question of how God hardens a persons heart came up. Sprouls explanation does not exactly square with what the Westminster Confession of Faith.

I would like to know how you deal with something like Virginia tech.[/FONT]

Doesn't predestination as referred to in Calvinism, refer to sotieriology?

And to answer your second question, yes, Cho's actions were a result of his nature. None of us can act against our natures.

I read an article yesterday or the day before that I thought did a good job of explaining where God was during the massacre. I'll try to find it and post a link.

CC&E
 
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bradfordl

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As a believer in Calvinism, how do you explain the killer at Virginia Tech? Was it predestined or was it a sinner from whom God removed His favor and let the sinners natural nature dictate the resulting actions?
Predestined.
I ask because I have been reading "Chosen by God," by R.C. Sproul and the question of how God hardens a persons heart came up. Sprouls explanation does not exactly square with what the Westminster Confession of Faith.
That's not gonna be the only place that Sproul doesn't square with the WCF.
I would like to know how you deal with something like Virginia tech.
With revulsion over the mindless evil that resides in men's hearts, with deep sorrow over the fact that my own heart is closer in character to the murderer than that of my Redeemer, with humble gratitude that in spite of that fact He willingly made propitiation for me, and is preparing a place for me, with prayer for comfort for those who have suffered loss.
 
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Paleoconservatarian

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[FONT=&quot]As a believer in Calvinism, how do you explain the killer at Virginia Tech? Was it predestined or was it a sinner from whom God removed His favor and let the sinners natural nature dictate the resulting actions?[/FONT]

Both. However, it may perhaps be more accurate to use the language of common grace or of God's restraining hand than to talk about His favor for this particular individual. At any rate, it is most certain that this event did not lie outside of God's knowledge and control, but that does not necessarily mean that He directly and immediately brought it about.

On the subject of suffering, tragedy, and where God is in relation to it all, I highly recommend Michael Horton's talks on his book "Too Good to be True," which you can listen to here: http://reformokc.com/ReformedConference16.php
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I ask because I have been reading "Chosen by God," by R.C. Sproul and the question of how God hardens a persons heart came up. Sprouls explanation does not exactly square with what the Westminster Confession of Faith.[/FONT]
As I am perhaps the only person on this board who hasn't read Sproul's Chosen by God, I can't really address this, so I'll let some of the others perhaps help you out.[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
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Boxmaker

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Predestined.
Westminster Chapter III

Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

To what end? If God predestined everything that comes to pass, is it reasonable to assume that He does so to reveal His Glory? Do you have any idea what glory is revealed from this shooting?
 
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Paleoconservatarian

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Do you have any idea what glory is revealed from this shooting?

No. I don't even believe we're always supposed to. Again, I recommend Horton's talks. Surely we know that all is done for the glory of God, but we don't know how that is done. We only get to see the back side of the tapestry, and unfinished at that. Our primary glimpse at the design on the front is in Christ. We can see how God works all things for His glory and our good in the cross and resurrection, but not necessarily in other things. Surely the worst thing, apparently, that ever happened was the cross, no? We can have faith that God works other tragedies for good.
 
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Boxmaker

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No. I don't even believe we're always supposed to. Again, I recommend Horton's talks. Surely we know that all is done for the glory of God, but we don't know how that is done. We only get to see the back side of the tapestry, and unfinished at that. Our primary glimpse at the design on the front is in Christ. We can see how God works all things for His glory and our good in the cross and resurrection, but not necessarily in other things. Surely the worst thing, apparently, that ever happened was the cross, no? We can have faith that God works other tragedies for good.
If we are not supposed to see the Glory in this, then... what?
 
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Elderone

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To what end? If God predestined everything that comes to pass, is it reasonable to assume that He does so to reveal His Glory?
We can assume anything we like, and not everything God does will we understand. If you think otherwise, explain the Trinity for us.

Perhaps you should keep the following in mind:

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
 
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Boxmaker

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We can assume anything we like, and not everything God does will we understand. If you think otherwise, explain the Trinity for us.
God exists in all dimensions. There are some 13 known dimensions and I believe that number has increased. God the Fater exists in all of those dimensions. Jesus exists in our dimensions plus the other "Godly" dimensions, same for the Holy Spirt. They exist as three seperate entities as we humans can precieve entities but they are one God because they are all linked in the "Godly" dimensions. One God, three persons = Trinity!

Don't look for "Godly Dimensions" because it is a term I coined to grasp something my 4 dimensional mind cannot fully grasp. And these are just my own personal thoughts on the matter.
 
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bradfordl

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To what end? If God predestined everything that comes to pass, is it reasonable to assume that He does so to reveal His Glory? Do you have any idea what glory is revealed from this shooting?
God will be glorified in this, just as He is in all things. He will at least be glorified in His righteous justice when the murderer is judged.

How does your theology deal with the following?:
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
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bradfordl

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God exists in all dimensions. There are some 13 known dimensions and I believe that number has increased. God the Fater exists in all of those dimensions. Jesus exists in our dimensions plus the other "Godly" dimensions, same for the Holy Spirt. They exist as three seperate entities as we humans can precieve entities but they are one God because they are all linked in the "Godly" dimensions. One God, three persons = Trinity!
Box, he asked you to explain the trinity. All you've done is postulate that the three persons of the trinity exist separately in all dimensions.
 
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Boxmaker

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God will be glorified in this, just as He is in all things. He will at least be glorified in His righteous justice when the murderer is judged.

How does your theology deal with the following?:
Luke 13

Repent or Perish

1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

It means exactly what it says, repent or peish. Repent, accept Chirst as your Lord and savioir or perish.

That doesn't really apply here. If God predestined these to show His glory, why would He hide that glory by only showing it when He judges the shooter? He did not do that with Pharo. He used Pharo to show His glory. Pharo considered himself a god. God clearly revealed to Pharo what God is. He lead Israel out of bondage.

This shooting does nothing, so far. God wants us to see His glory so we know He is God. Hiding His glory deep in an evil act would not seem compatible with showing His glory, would it?
 
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bradfordl

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This shooting does nothing, so far. God wants us to see His glory so we know He is God. Hiding His glory deep in an evil act would not seem compatible with showing His glory, would it?
Maybe the problem is that you presume an importance for yourself that you do not merit. That you don't comprehend the glory in it is possibly immaterial. You, just like every atom, are just another component of creation whose sole and over-arching purpose is to glorify God. A blade of grass has no comprehension of all the manifestations of God's glory. Granted, you have a tad bit more of a part to play, and a somewhat better comprehension than a blade of grass, but perhaps not so much as you imagine.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Maybe you're not the one for whom His glory is displayed in this. God owes you no explanation. You are the one who must give an account of himself to God, not the other way around.

BTW, was this Cho guy any more evil than Pilate?
 
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Boxmaker

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Maybe the problem is that you presume an importance for yourself that you do not merit. That you don't comprehend the glory in it is possibly immaterial. You, just like every atom, are just another component of creation whose sole and over-arching purpose is to glorify God. A blade of grass has no comprehension of all the manifestations of God's glory. Granted, you have a tad bit more of a part to play, and a somewhat better comprehension than a blade of grass, but perhaps not so much as you imagine.
Maybe you're not the one for whom His glory is displayed in this. God owes you no explanation. You are the one who must give an account of himself to God, not the other way around.

BTW, was this Cho guy any more evil than Pilate?
There is only one lake of fire. The degree of sin is irrelivant as it is not sin that sends you to the lake of fire. It is Jesus, and Jesus only, that send you to the lake of fire.
 
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Boxmaker

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Maybe the problem is that you presume an importance for yourself that you do not merit. That you don't comprehend the glory in it is possibly immaterial. You, just like every atom, are just another component of creation whose sole and over-arching purpose is to glorify God. A blade of grass has no comprehension of all the manifestations of God's glory. Granted, you have a tad bit more of a part to play, and a somewhat better comprehension than a blade of grass, but perhaps not so much as you imagine.
I think Jesus disagrees with you. Consider:

Luke 12:24
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!

Apparently God thinks very much more of us than you give Him credit for. Jesus came to die for us, not the average atom or blade of grass.
 
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Imblessed

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Boxmaker,

Perhaps God's Glory in this awful act will never be seen by you, but it may be seen by those closer to the tragedy.(I'm assuming you are not closely involved)

God tells us He works all things to his glory, even the bad that we do, so we can be assured that some good will come out of this. Perhaps it's a catalyst for people to come to know God.

I'm sure of the fact that there are many things that happen that people never know the good that comes out of it. It may not be for us to know---it may be something that we find out years later---

The thing I do know, and rest in, is God is in control, even when we don't see it!

And about R.C. Sproul---isn't he a baptist? I could be wrong.....however, from what I've read of his books, I don't think he fits neatly into any one catagory.
 
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cygnusx1

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Another atrocity but are there any answers ?

Here one man gives good Biblical perspective and understanding ;


How Shall We Minister to People After the World Trade Tower Terrorism of September 11, 2001?

21 Ways to Comfort Those Who Are Suffering

By John Piper September 12, 2001

On the morning of September 11, 2001 terrorists hijacked at least three commercial planes and flew them into both towers of the 110-story World Trade Center in New York City, and into the Pentagon in Washington. Within about an hour both towers entirely collapsed.
As I write, no one dares estimate the loss of life. Fifty thousand people work in the towers each day, not to mention the people on the planes and the hundreds of people on the ground trying to help as the towers fell. The personal and national and economic impact is incalculable. The nation is in shock.
I wrote most of what follows in response to the Littleton, Colorado tragedy in April, 1999 when two students killed thirteen people at Columbine High School and then shot themselves. The magnitude of yesterday's act is Littleton times five thousand. My aim in writing was mainly to help the elders of my own church minister to our people. I revise it and put it out again in the hope that others might be helped to love people and honor Christ in this dark and heavy moment of shaking and weeping.
What shall we say about these events in order to honor Christ and minister to people for their good? Our first decision as a church was to call for three special services. The banner flying over these services is: "Sorrow, Self-humbling, and Steady Hope in our Savior and King, Jesus Christ." You can read in what follows why all three of these emphases are crucial - sorrow, self-humbling, and steady hope. You will also see why it is so important to say Jesus is a Savior and a King at times like this.
I hope this will serve as a kind of Biblical resource for theological truth and pastoral care. May the Lord strengthen your hands and heart in this crucial moment of need.
1. Pray. Ask God for his help for you and for those you want to minister to. Ask him for wisdom and compassion and strength and a word fitly chosen. Ask that those who are suffering would look to God as their help and hope and healing and strength. Ask that he would make your mouth a fountain of life.

James 1:5. "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him."
Deuteronomy 32:2. "May my teaching drop as the rain, my speech distil as the dew, as the gentle rain upon the tender grass, and as the showers upon the herb."
Proverbs 13:14. "The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life, To turn aside from the snares of death."
2. Feel and express empathy with those most hurt by this great evil and loss; weep with those who weep.

Ecclesiastes 3:1. "There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven . . . A time to weep and a time to laugh; A time to mourn and a time to dance. . . . A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing."
Romans 12:15. "Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep."
3. Feel and express compassion because of the tragic circumstances of so many loved ones and friends who have lost more than they could ever estimate.

John 11:33-35. "When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled, and said, 'Where have you laid him?' They said to Him, 'Lord, come and see.' Jesus wept."
Luke 19:41-44. "When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, 'If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.'"
Luke 7:11-17. "Soon afterwards He went to a city called Nain; and His disciples were going along with Him, accompanied by a large crowd. Now as He approached the gate of the city, a dead man was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a sizeable crowd from the city was with her. When the Lord saw her, He felt compassion for her, and said to her, 'Do not weep.' And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, 'Young man, I say to you, arise!' The dead man sat up and began to speak. And Jesus gave him back to his mother. Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, 'A great prophet has arisen among us!' and, 'God has visited His people!' This report concerning Him went out all over Judea and in all the surrounding district."
4. Take time and touch, if you can, and give tender care to the wounded in body and soul.

Matthew 8:14-15. "When Jesus came into Peter's home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever. He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him."
Mark 1:40-41. "And a leper came to Jesus, beseeching Him and falling on his knees before Him, and saying, 'If You are willing, You can make me clean.' Moved with compassion, Jesus stretched out His hand and touched him."
Luke 10:30-37. "Jesus replied and said, 'A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, "Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you." Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?' And he said, 'The one who showed mercy toward him.' Then Jesus said to him, 'Go and do the same.'"
5. Hold out the promise that God will sustain and help those who cast themselves on him for mercy and trust in his grace. He will strengthen you for the impossible days ahead in spite of all darkness.

Psalm 34:18. "The LORD is near to the brokenhearted And saves those who are crushed in spirit."
Isaiah 41:10. "Fear not, for I am with you, be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my victorious right hand."
Psalm 23:4. "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me."
2 Corinthians 1:3-4. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God."
2 Corinthians 1:8-9. "We do not want you to be unaware, brethren, of our affliction which came to us in Asia, that we were burdened excessively, beyond our strength, so that we despaired even of life; indeed, we had the sentence of death within ourselves so that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead."
6. Affirm that Jesus Christ tasted hostility from men and knew what it was to be unjustly tortured and abandoned, and to endure overwhelming loss, and then be killed, so that he is now a sympathetic mediator for us with God.

Hebrews 4:15-16. "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted [or "tested" which makes the application larger!] in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need."
Isaiah 53:3-6. "He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him."
7. Declare that this murder was a great evil, and that God's wrath is greatly kindled by the wanton destruction of human life created in his image.

Exodus 20:13. "Thou shalt not murder."
Genesis 9:5-6. "Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."
Deuteronomy 29:24-25. "All the nations will say, 'Why has the LORD done thus to this land? Why this great outburst of anger?' Then men will say, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.'"
8. Acknowledge that God has permitted a great outbreak of sin against his revealed will, and that we do not know all the reasons why he would permit such a thing now, when it was in his power to stop it.

Deuteronomy 29:29. "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law."
Romans 11:33-37 "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."
9. Express the truth that Satan is a massive reality in the universe that conspires with our own sin and flesh and the world to hurt people and to move people to hurt others, but stress that Satan is within and under the control of God.

Job 1:6, 12, 21-22; 2:6-10. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. . . . Then the LORD said to Satan, 'Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.' So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD. . . [After losing all his possessions and his ten children Job says] 'Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD. Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God. . . . [After a second meeting in heaven] the LORD said to Satan, 'Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life.' Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. . . . Then his wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!' But he said to her, 'You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?'"
Job 42:2, 11. "I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. . . . Then all his brothers and all his sisters and all who had known him before came to him, and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the LORD had brought on him.
Luke 22:31-32. "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
2 Corinthians 12:7-9. "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me - to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.' Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me."
Compare the following two perspectives on the cause of Jesus' death.
Luke 22:3-4 "Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve. And he went away and discussed with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Him to them."
Acts 4:27-28. "Truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."
10. Express that these terrorists rebelled against the revealed will of God and did not love God or trust him or find in God their refuge and strength and treasure, but scorned his ways and his Person.

2 Thessalonians 3:1-2. "Finally, brethren, pray for us . . . that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith."
Galatians 5:6. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love."
Galatians 5:16. "Walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh."
James 4:1-4. "What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."
11. Since rebellion against God was at the root of this act of murder, let us all fear such rebellion in our own hearts, and turn from it, and embrace the grace of God in Christ, and renounce the very impulses that caused this tragedy.

Proverbs 3:5-6. "Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight."
Psalm 9:10. "And those who know Your name will put their trust in You, For You, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You."
Psalm 56:3. "When I am afraid, I will put my trust in You."

For the rest of this excellent page by John Piper , please go here ;


http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...d_Trade_Tower_Terrorism_of_September_11_2001/
 
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Boxmaker

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Boxmaker,

Perhaps God's Glory in this awful act will never be seen by you, but it may be seen by those closer to the tragedy.(I'm assuming you are not closely involved)

God tells us He works all things to his glory, even the bad that we do, so we can be assured that some good will come out of this. Perhaps it's a catalyst for people to come to know God.

I'm sure of the fact that there are many things that happen that people never know the good that comes out of it. It may not be for us to know---it may be something that we find out years later---

The thing I do know, and rest in, is God is in control, even when we don't see it!

And about R.C. Sproul---isn't he a baptist? I could be wrong.....however, from what I've read of his books, I don't think he fits neatly into any one catagory.

No, I am not closely involved. But like Egypt, our nation is involved. God revealed His glory to both Pharaoh and the Israelites. There was no doubt about who was in charge and what He wanted.

I see nothing of the kind in this shooting. It was senseless. God sent Moses to Pharaoh to make sure Pharaoh completely understood what was happening and why. Nothing like that here. Why would God want Pharaoh to know exactly what was happening and why but wants us in the dark?
 
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mlqurgw

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I wonder if Joseph understood how God was going to get glory and do good to His people when he was in the pit his brothers threw him in to die. I wonder if he knew how God was going to glorify Himself in his being sold into slavery at the time. I wonder if he grasped how God was working for his good when he was in the prison. During all of those trials and evil deeds committed against him he trusted that God was working. At some point, perhaps when his brothers showed up to beg, he came to realize what God was doing. That is why he told them that God sent him into Egypt not them. Gen. 45:8 And that they meant it for evil but God meant it for good. Gen. 50:20
As you read through the history in the Old Testament you can see the hand of God bringing about His purpose of grace in Christ from beginning to end.
 
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