Violence in the Bible

[SpyridonOCA]

While I'm not a Muslim and would never want to be a Muslim, we should recognize that our own Scriptures record, or purport to record, God sanctioning an intolerable amount of senseless violence. I understand and am upset by how Christians have been persecuted in the name of Islam. I also have a hard time seeing a difference between Joshua's actions and Muhammad's.

Deuteronomy 20
16But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

Deuteronomy 17:12
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.

Ezekiel 9:5-7
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

1 Samuel 15:2-3
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'

Jeremiah 48:10
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

Jeremiah 50:21-22
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".

Joshua 6:20-21
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.

Judges 20:48
The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon.

Judges 18:27-29
Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish.

 

[t1mp01]

What is your point?

Also, please remember the context of these verses. God had given ample warning to those who were sinning and rejecting our Lord. That is why God would destroy cities, as it wasn't out of the blue, or without ample warning. Those people would continually worship fake idols, reject the only Living God. The Lord would send out prophets ie: Elijah/Isaiah etc. to warn the people of their wicked ways and tell them to repent and turn away. They usually would not after AMPLE WARNING AND GRACE. This 'violence' you point out was the result of blatant and disgusting continual rejection of the Living God.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

Also, please remember the context of these verses. God had given ample warning to those who were sinning and rejecting our Lord. That is why God would destroy cities, as it wasn't out of the blue, or without ample warning. Those people would continually worship fake idols, reject the only Living God. The Lord would send out prophets ie: Elijah/Isaiah etc. to warn the people of their wicked ways and tell them to repent and turn away. They usually would not after AMPLE WARNING AND GRACE. This 'violence' you point out was the result of blatant and disgusting continual rejection of the Living God.

That sounds like the words of an Islamic terrorist to me.

 

[t1mp01]

That sounds like the words of an Islamic terrorist to me.

Call me what you may, but my faith and heart belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you actually read the passages in their full context, you will see that God gives AMAZING GRACE and AMPLE warning. I sense you want to portray God as harsh? How harsh is it to have your people that you love, that you bail out of slavery, oppression, that you continually are graceful too, that you created, to spit in your face and reject you. To worship false idols and commit grievous sin. And then still give them another chance, to ask them to repent and all is good, and still have them run towards sin.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

That's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. We need not interpret every passage of the Bible literally.

 

[t1mp01]

That's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. We need not interpret every passage of the Bible literally.

I have no idea where you are getting that from what I said.

Like I said read all of the particular Book from which passages you cited to get the full context and understand why God was doing what he was doing. God is just in all of his actions.

 

[calluna]

While I'm not a Muslim and would never want to be a Muslim, we should recognize that our own Scriptures record, or purport to record, God sanctioning an intolerable amount of senseless violence.

Kindly keep the word 'our' out of your posts. If you want to learn about the OT, ask.

 

[TimRout]

While I'm not a Muslim and would never want to be a Muslim, we should recognize that our own Scriptures record, or purport to record, God sanctioning an intolerable amount of senseless violence.

Intolerable to whom? Senseless to whom? Your presuppositions here are most disturbing.

 

[Nachtjager]

At the risk of being pounded on here, may I be so bold as to point out that all of the scriptures cited are not neccesarily Christian verses, but rather, they are Hebrew, Jewish, Old Testament verses - not the teachings of Christ.

I think there is a very notable difference in how there was a terrific amount of death, destruction, mayhem, and punishment in the OT, all handed down according to the Hebrew priests by God, then it seemingly stops in the NT and such horrifying events are not encountered again.

Obviously, horrible things still occur, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, etc., but do we immediately attribute all the calamities to some judgement of God? I think you must consider who wrote these verses and their understanding of the world around them at that time.

Take care all and God bless!

 

[calluna]

At the risk of being pounded on here, may I be so bold as to point out that all of the scriptures cited are not neccesarily Christian verses, but rather, they are Hebrew, Jewish, Old Testament verses - not the teachings of Christ.

I think there is a very notable difference in how there was a terrific amount of death, destruction, mayhem, and punishment in the OT, all handed down according to the Hebrew priests by God, then it seemingly stops in the NT and such horrifying events are not encountered again.

If one believes that Christ is the God of the OT, then NT precepts and OT practices form a continuum, though in different contexts.

The killing of Canaanites and others was in every case fully rational, and illustrates the attitude of the deity to unrepentant wrongdoers. Those who died did not deserve to live. There are very many today who do not deserve to live, either, but God now relents from punishment because he wants all to have the chance to turn form their selfish evil ways, and accept the gospel of Christ. Many today rather absurdly think they have a right to life, and think it sensible to blame God for those killings, but they should instead take them as a warning. And think- their attitude in itself justifies the existence of hell. Remember that Jesus said that what happens to the body is as nothing in comparison to what the soul can suffer, and will suffer if there is no self-humbling and change of heart.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

Intolerable to whom? Senseless to whom? Your presuppositions here are most disturbing.

Intolerable and senseless in comparison to the message of Christ. Why would God sanction the Hebrews to massacre women and children? It's just non-sense.

 

[t1mp01]

Intolerable and senseless in comparison to the message of Christ. Why would God sanction the Hebrews to massacre women and children? It's just non-sense.

The answer is in each of the verses you posted, also in the prior verses to each. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, so these things would not happen anymore. Jesus's message was love, the love that God sent to us so we may be saved. There is nothing intolerable or senseless about it.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

If there is nothing intolerable and senseless about Old Testament violence, then there is nothing intolerable or senseless about Muhammad's violence. You can't have it both ways.

 

[t1mp01]

Muhammad has nothing to do with the Old Testament. Muhammad is dead. If he had anything to do with the Old testament then he would have been in it.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

You are totally missing the point.

 

[t1mp01]

You are totally missing the point.

Which is?

 

[calluna]

If there is nothing intolerable and senseless about Old Testament violence, then there is nothing intolerable or senseless about Muhammad's violence. You can't have it both ways.

There could not be a greater contrast between Joshua and the vile Muhammad. The Canaanites were people who invented idols to give them excuses to practise all sorts of evils, violent, sexual, misappropriational. The Israelites were commanded to remove the Canaanites because to leave them in situ would have meant intermarriage and dilution of divine precepts. For them to do that was cutting themselves off from the 'delights' of those evils, so there was double value in that it concentrated their minds and reminded them of their promise to obey God, and disposed of people who had no right to exist. (Remember, God can and does decide about that with us all, and you, reader, are no exception.)

The Canaanites had a choice. They could see the way of life of the Israelites, their excellent laws and the honorable way in which they conducted themselves. But they loved their filth instead, and so they paid for their choice, and no decent person mourns them.

Muhammad behaved like a Canaanite, and butchered God's people because they cramped his style, exposed his sins, and gave him a bad conscience.

 

[TimRout]

Intolerable and senseless in comparison to the message of Christ. Why would God sanction the Hebrews to massacre women and children? It's just non-sense.

You draw a false dichotomy between the God of the Old Testament and God the Son. The God who offered His only begotten Son on the cross, is the same God who ordered the utter destruction of the ancient pagan peoples who did not worship Him. What I find to be nonsensical is your affirmation of Christ's message, paired with your disaffirmation of the very Scriptures Christ came to fulfill [Matthew 5:17-20].

 

[beamishboy]

At the risk of being pounded on here, may I be so bold as to point out that all of the scriptures cited are not neccesarily Christian verses, but rather, they are Hebrew, Jewish, Old Testament verses - not the teachings of Christ.

I think there is a very notable difference in how there was a terrific amount of death, destruction, mayhem, and punishment in the OT, all handed down according to the Hebrew priests by God, then it seemingly stops in the NT and such horrifying events are not encountered again.

Obviously, horrible things still occur, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, etc., but do we immediately attribute all the calamities to some judgement of God? I think you must consider who wrote these verses and their understanding of the world around them at that time.

Take care all and God bless!

I agree with you entirely. We know from the OT that a man who was gathering firewood on a Sabbath was arrested and God said that he had to be put to death for working on the Sabbath. That man was stoned to death. We know that Jesus did things on the Sabbath and the Jews were angry. What did Jesus say? He said the Sabbath was made for men and not men for the Sabbath.

I don't know about the rest of you but I believe Jesus is GOD. I believe Jesus is the same yesterday, today and for ever. Would God who says that the Sabbath was made for men and not men for the Sabbath order the stoning to death of a man who gathers firewood on the Sabbath? Not my God! Not Jesus. Not the triune God because the triune God must include Jesus.

It's clear that the guy who wrote that part of the OT was just doing what the other ancients used to do - attributing to God their own civil and criminal laws. The man who gathered firewood on the Sabbath was killed by the State, not by God. God didn't command it.