Vigano gives first interview since self-imposed exile

[Michie]

Are you a practicing Catholic Halbhh?

I thought it was not important Francis remember some precise wording but instead stay focused on the real principles.

It's all about principles that are correct. Like so many Catholics, this seems exactly correct to me:

"[The footnote] didn't go as far as fully reinstating the right to communion or reconciliation, but as Pope Francis noted, encouraged us to remember that the Eucharist "is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak."
Divorced and remarried, they receive communion once again

Here it's recognized that individual cases are not alike to each other. Some are not like others.

And, the Eucharist is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.

 

[Halbhh]

Are a practicing Catholic Halbhh?

I consider myself a member of the Chruch, that the Lutheran church we attend at the moment is basically in communion, and count my close Catholic friends as my brothers and sisters, fully. I'm inside for those that think the boundaries of the Chruch are not simple and clear to us. So, some would say yes, like me, and others would say not, I think.

 

[Michie]

Well I appreciate the fellowship but you are not Catholic per the rules of this forum. I know the last time I asked the answer was no. So I was wondering if you converted. This is a much more sensitive issue than you probably realize. Many have been hurt.

I consider myself a member of the Chruch, that the Lutheran church we attend at the moment is basically in communion, and count my close Catholic friends as my brothers and sisters, fully. I'm inside for those that think the boundaries of the Chruch are not simple and clear to us. So, some would say yes, like me, and others would say not, I think.

 

[Halbhh]

Well I appreciate the fellowship but you are not Catholic per the rules of thus forum. I know the last time I asked the answer was no. So I was wondering if you converted. This is a much more sensitive issue than you probably realize. Many have been hurt.

Yes. I do sympathize. Does it seem any of my posts have been inappropriate (even if they are following all the SOP)?

 

[Michie]

Yes. You seem to be debating in favor of the behavior of the pope. A lot of Catholics have a problem with the pope's handling of things. And feel ignored. When the pope holds the position he does and what that means to Catholics, it seems you are discarding those feelings and the importance of them without really understanding them.

Yes. I do sympathize. Does it seem any of my posts have been inappropriate (even if they are following all the SOP)?

 

[Lost4words]

Yes. You seem to be debating in favor of the behavior of the pope. A lot of Catholics have a problem with the pope's handling of things. And feel ignored. When the pope holds the position he does and what that means to Catholics, it seems you are discarding those feelings and the importance of them without really understanding them.

I disagree with that, sorry.

 

[Davidnic]

Though we welcome all in fellowship non Catholics are not allowed to teach on any topic.

 

[Halbhh]

Yes every since I read that article at First Things, I know how it made me feel. I can only imagine what others out there are thinking.

Could you remember the title of the article? Was it this one:
Why Francis Must Speak | Gerald E. Murray

 

[Halbhh]

Though we welcome all in fellowship non Catholics are not allowed to teach on any topic.

Right. (and if you notice anthing otherwise here or elsewhere please let me know or PM me about it)

 

[Michie]

No need to feel sorry @Lost4words. We all feel differently.

 

[Michie]

Didn't Vigano basically claim to know exactly what is in Francis's heart, to state flatly that Francis does remember?
Viganò Accuses Pope Francis of Lying

How can one know this, without omniscience?

Well, one could think they 'know' it by judging, by a harsh assumption (guessing the worst, judging harshly)....

Archbishop Viganò Addresses Dispute With Brother Over Family Inheritance

One might say the same of the judging of Vigano.

 

[Halbhh]

Archbishop Viganò Addresses Dispute With Brother Over Family Inheritance

One might say the same of the judging of Vigano.

thanks! I was not aware Vigano had been thus accused publically in that affair, and now am rightly made aware of his own defense about it, ahead of time.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It's possible that the reason he is so firm that the Pope must remember is that the other alternative, that he would forget something of this magnitude, it's something he cannot accept. So he goes to the fact that he must be lying.

Perhaps. It comes down to one or the other, a forgetful pope forgetting absolutely major things or a lying pope now lying about not remembering. It would be charitable to believe he forgot, but one wonders. In either case, he needs a fitness for duty examination, however that would be done.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I thought it was not important Francis remember some precise wording but instead stay focused on the real principles.

It's all about principles that are correct. Like so many Catholics, this seems exactly correct to me:

"[The footnote] didn't go as far as fully reinstating the right to communion or reconciliation, but as Pope Francis noted, encouraged us to remember that the Eucharist "is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak."
Divorced and remarried, they receive communion once again

Here it's recognized that individual cases are not alike to each other. Some are not like others.

And, the Eucharist is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.

Is there ANYONE you know that considers the Eucharist as a prize for the perfect? Is that even a real thing?

Pope Francis doesn't remember. He isn't not remembering precise wording but some very major things. He doesn't remember the most contentious part of his signature encyclical. Not even after being asked by four cardinals for a clarification on what he intended. A request he totally blew off. He doesn't remember hearing about the sexual abuse of the most powerful cardinal in the USA. Instead he sends that abuser on a diplomatic mission. There are more instances. It isn't about precise wording. That is understandable. He's forgetting things that my mother would have forgotten in her dementia.

 

[Rhamiel]

Here it's recognized that individual cases are not alike to each other. Some are not like others.

And, the Eucharist is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.

Catholics believe what Jesus said about the Eucharist “My Body is true food” (John 6:55)
Food does help those who are weak
Food does not help those who are dead

If you divorce and remarry without an annulment then you are committing adultery and you become spiritually dead
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

So it would be a blasphemy to God for those people to receive the sacrament while in a state of sin

 

[Michie]

Archbishop Viganò Criticizes Pope Francis’ Handling of McCarrick Case

 

[Halbhh]

Archbishop Viganò Criticizes Pope Francis’ Handling of McCarrick Case

Having read every part of the articles carefully, I wondered why Vigano fled and hid. And how that could connect with how his brother fled from him, as the articles pointed out.

Also noticed the seeming inconsistency between the articles about timing of when Vigano first talked of McCarrick . And also I noticed the tone of Vigano adding the judging word 'blatant' to his condemning guess about Francis's veracity...

 

[peter2]

And, the Eucharist is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.

Hello,

(I was busy at work when people were debating this issue, after Pope Francis claimed the sentence in quotation).
So, please, could someone, Halbhh or anyone else, explain me of which use is reconciliation after this claim ? i mean : Is the weakness of sinning a better reason for going and receiving communion than the weakness of the humility to ask for reconciliation ?
Surely, the question's already be debated, but i fail to find where to fetch the answer

Thank you

 

[o_mlly]

Is the weakness of sinning a better reason for going and receiving communion than the weakness of the humility to ask for reconciliation ?

The disposition of the sinner in the present moment of Eucharistic reception matters. The Sacrament of Reconciliation recognizes that we may, and likely will, sin again in the future so the Sacrament may be received as many times as the penitent is aware of grievous sin.

Because the Eucharist makes present the redeeming sacrifice of the Cross, perpetuating it sacramentally, it naturally gives rise to a continuous need for conversion, for a personal response to the appeal made by Saint Paul to the Christians of Corinth: “We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God” (2 Cor 5:20). If a Christian's conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice (ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA. p.37).​

 

[peter2]

If a Christian's conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice (ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA. p.37).

Thank you, o_mlly, for this. It' s the way i practise, but i didn't know Ecclesia de Eucharistia.

Do you know too, please again, what is the deep signification of "necessary" in the previous quotation ?

Is the sacrament of reconciliation a mandatory rule when sinning seriously ?
Is it necessary to get the reconciliation in order to get the best receptivity and benefits of the Eucharist ?

Gives me the feeling it's slightly different..