Victory Over Sin

[JIMINZ]

But Paul's entire point here is that a person is not carnally minded against God, neither is his enemy, neither unsaved if his Spirit dwells in that person. We know this because a person who is saved has the Spirit of God within him acting as the seal of eternal life, and the person that is unsaved does not have the Spirit within him. And the Spirit of God dwells in a person as SOON as they believe and call upon the name of the Lord (Ephesians 1:13, John 1:12, 1 John 5:1, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13).

No where in this passage is Paul making the point that a person who has the Spirit of God dwelling within them can live sin-free for the rest of their life.

OK, I'm not going to argue the point with you.

Be Blessed.

 

[Call me Nic]

OK, I'm not going to argue the point with you.

Be Blessed.

Friend, if what I am saying is false, I am in error and would need correction, which is your duty. But and if I am right, then your heart condemns you because you refuse to accept the unction of the Spirit in the scripture and the words that I'm telling you. If what I am saying is false, I would gladly repent from it; but you know it to be the truth, because it is exactly what the scripture says, so why reject it as Christ was rejected?

 

[JIMINZ]

Friend, if what I am saying is false, I am in error and would need correction, which is your duty.

I fully understand my responsibility as a Christian towards a Brother, and as you yourself can attest to I have tried, but you keep refusing my correction

But and if I am right, then your heart condemns you because you refuse to accept the unction of the Spirit in the scripture and the words that I'm telling you.

You falsely say (But and if) you are right, because you do not believe you are.

The unction does not condemn me because #1

Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And #2
Your in error, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, your parroting what you have been taught.

If what I am saying is false, I would gladly repent from it;

Again, you give the false impression, there is a possibility of your being wrong , but you don't really believe you are.

Now that isn't true, you have done nothing but refute what I have said to you, you have not shone any interest in pursuing the truth, finding out just what it is I am saying, only rebuttal as to why what I am saying is wrong.

I post Scripture saying something specific, and you refute it with a verse which Paul wrote earlier in his teaching, doesn't that mean Paul was Refuting himself?

Then you give a recitation as to what I posted really means, when what Paul wrote explains itself, it's truth itself without any recitation needed.

So no, I don't see and chance of your repenting.

but you know it to be the truth, because it is exactly what the scripture says, so why reject it as the Jews rejected Christ?

Here is the crux of you whole argument, you have a preconceived belief that what I am saying is untrue, a lie, false teaching, and you are doing nothing more than defending the truth as you have been taught it to be, why?

Because it goes against what you have been taught these things mean.

Therefore I said OK, which is to mean (If that is what you want to believe) I see no way of convincing you otherwise.

It doesn't mean what I am saying is a Lie, it means you have closed your ears to anything anyone would have to say which goes against what it is you have been taught to believe, and until such a time they are opened, you will not hear anything I have to say, you already have a belief which at this time you will not relinquish.

So the only thing I can say is.
Be Blessed

 

[Call me Nic]

I fully understand my responsibility as a Christian towards a Brother, and as you yourself can attest to I have tried, but you keep refusing my correction



The unction does not condemn me because #1

Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And #2
Your in error, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, your parroting what you have been taught.



Now that isn't true, you have done nothing but refute what I have said to you, you have not shone any interest in pursuing the truth, finding out just what it is I am saying, only rebuttal as to why what I am saying is wrong.

I post Scripture saying something specific, and you refute it with a verse which Paul wrote earlier in his teaching, doesn't that mean Paul was Refuting himself?

Then you give a recitation as to what I posted really means, when what Paul wrote explains itself, it's truth itself without any recitation needed.

So no, I don't see and chance of your repenting.



Here is the crux of you whole argument, you have a preconceived belief that what I am saying is untrue, a lie, false teaching, and you are doing nothing more than defending the truth as you have been taught it to be, why?

Because it goes against what you have been taught these things mean.

Therefore I said OK, which is to mean (If that is what you want to believe) I see no way of convincing you otherwise.

It doesn't mean what I am saying is a Lie, it means you have closed your ears to anything anyone would have to say which goes against what it is you have been taught to believe, and until such a time they are opened, you will not hear anything I have to say, you already have a belief which at this time you will not relinquish.

So the only thing I can say is.
Be Blessed

Friend, scripture itself has taught me these things. You err because you assume I have learned this doctrine from another man and am repeating what I have been told blindly, but I haven't; I have prayed, and considered these teachings, and these are what they teach when you truly compare spiritual things with spiritual, and scripture with scripture.

I would indeed repent if I were wrong, but the fact that your belief contradicts blatant scriptures shows me that what you believe cannot be the truth, because God does not contradict himself. It is not that I don't seek to learn, or to change from my errors, because I know and admit that I am fully capable of and will make them; but I have an obligation to defend the truth, and the truth cannot be your teaching.

Nevertheless, like you said, no point to continue on with this discussion then. Good day, sir.

 

[JIMINZ]

Friend, scripture itself has taught me these things. You err because you assume I have learned this doctrine from another man and am repeating what I have been told blindly, but I haven't; I have prayed, and considered these teachings, and these are what they teach when you truly compare spiritual things with spiritual, and scripture with scripture.

I would indeed repent if I were wrong, but the fact that your belief contradicts blatant scriptures shows me that what you believe cannot be the truth, because God does not contradict himself. It is not that I don't seek to learn, or to change from my errors, because I know and admit that I am fully capable of and will make them; but I have an obligation to defend the truth, and the truth cannot be your teaching.

Nevertheless, like you said, no point to continue on with this discussion then. Good day, sir.

Friend, if what I am saying is false, I am in error and would need correction, which is your duty.

But and if I am right, then shouldn't you at least investigate what it is I am saying is in the scripture and the words that I'm telling you?

If what I am saying is false, I would gladly repent from it, but you have not to this point shown anything which does actually Refute what I have said.

 

[Call me Nic]

Friend, if what I am saying is false, I am in error and would need correction, which is your duty.

But and if I am right, then shouldn't you at least investigate what it is I am saying is in the scripture and the words that I'm telling you?

If what I am saying is false, I would gladly repent from it, but you have not to this point shown anything which does actually Refute what I have said.

Proverbs 20:9 That scripture refutes you. This verse says a man cannot make himself pure from his sin.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 That scripture refutes you. This scripture says that a just man (a saved man) can and will still sin.
1 John 1:8 That scripture refutes you. This says if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 That scripture refutes you. This says that if we say we have no sin, then we make God a liar.
Romans 3:23 That scripture refutes you. This says that all have sinned and fallen short, including both Jews and Gentiles.
Romans 3:10 That scripture refutes you. This says that there is none righteous.
Galatians 5:17 That scripture refutes you. This says that the flesh lusts against the already-present Spirit within us, causing us to be unable to do the things that we would.
Galatians 5:3-4 These scriptures refute you. These state that he who seeks to be justified by the law, i.e. obeying the commandments and not sinning, are fallen from the grace of Christ. Why? Because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), therefore, when you cease from sin, you follow the law. You say that a person must stop sinning to truly be saved - well that's adding works to salvation, which means that Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, and Romans 5:1-2, Romans 5:18, John 3:16, Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31, 1 John 5:1, Romans 10:9-13, and Ephesians 1:13 all refute you. Why? Because all of the aforementioned verses state PLAINLY that salvation is by grace through faith, also known as believing, on Christ. There is nothing in these verses about ceasing from sin to be saved, or that a saved Christian will cease from sinning.

Goodnight.

 

[JIMINZ]

Proverbs 20:9 That scripture refutes you. This verse says a man cannot make himself pure from his sin.

Pro. 20:9
Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

You see, right there to begin with, you have misunderstood what I have said.
I agree 100% with this verse, it is you who have not heard what I have said.
To be clear, I never said anyone could make themselves pure.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 That scripture refutes you. This scripture says that a just man (a saved man) can and will still sin.

Ecc. 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Your right again, but, aren't we the Righteousness of God?

2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Aren't we Justified by Christ?

Rom. 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So then it has been shown, we are not only the Righteousness of God in Christ, we are also Justified by Faith in Christ....(Just and Righteous)

This again is your misunderstanding.
Jesus said the same exact thing.

Mat. 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mar. 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Paul teaching the Romans says.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The problem is, it's all in the Context, you first must understand who is being spoken to or about before you can say this verse means this or that, you at this point don't understand, your verse above Ecc. 7:20 does not apply to Christians, (as I have just shown you above), any more than the ones I just posted, Context, it's the Context which gives you the understanding of what is being taught.

1 John 1:8 That scripture refutes you. This says if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us.

1 Jn. 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

True once more, but the Context once again is crucial to the understanding.
Did you take note what John said in verse 6 and who he was speaking about?

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Therefore those who say they have fellowship with Christ (Christians) and sin, they are liars, and do not have fellowship with Him at all.

You can't just pull this verse out to make your case when we all know that only 2 Chapters on, John is going to say something which would be a contradiction if what you believe is being said now in Chapter 1 was in fact applied to Christians.

Don't get me wrong, John is speaking to Christians but he is reiterating the Gospel message to them, he is starting from when they were unsaved, and then continues in his discourse for another 4 Chapters after this.

1 John 1:10 That scripture refutes you. This says that if we say we have no sin, then we make God a liar.

1 Jn.1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Same as above.

I have never said I have never sinned, another misunderstanding of what I did say.

Romans 3:23 That scripture refutes you. This says that all have sinned and fallen short, including both Jews and Gentiles.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Your right 100%, before we become Believers in Christ, everyone has sinned.
Have never said any different.

Now, Context, Context, Context.
Do you understand now, what I am trying to tell you, your misunderstanding what is being said in everything you have used as your refutation.
None of what you have used so far applies to anything I have said, or a Christian.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Everything that is written here is one complete thought, from Verse 21, all the way through to verse 26.

You can't just pull out that one verse (23) and apply it without any prior understanding as to what is being said in the entire discourse.

Romans 3:10 That scripture refutes you. This says that there is none righteous.

Rom. 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Maybe this will get you to understand. Context!

If what you are saying applies to Christians, then everything said up to verse 18 applies to Christians as well.

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Did you take note Paul began by saying in verse 9 he was speaking about Jews, and Gentiles.

Galatians 5:17 That scripture refutes you. This says that the flesh lusts against the already-present Spirit within us, causing us to be unable to do the things that we would.

Gal. 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

I really don't understand why it is you keep missing the Context of what is being said.

Paul is pleading with these people to understand their position in Christ.
They keep going back to the things they had always done, that is exactly what you are espousing.

Paul is telling them you are Dead to the Flesh (The Old Man, the Body of sin)
You are now alive in the Spirit

Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom. 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Context.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galatians 5:3-4 These scriptures refute you. These state that he who seeks to be justified by the law, i.e. obeying the commandments and not sinning, are fallen from the grace of Christ.

Gal 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Where have I said,.."he who seeks to be justified by the law, i.e. obeying the commandments and not sinning"?

Don't you read your own Scriptures?
This is exactly why I say CONTEXT.

Paul qualified what he was about to say, by saying.
Jews, he is speaking about Jews, when he said this, not Christians.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


I'm not going to bother to answer the remaining of what you posted, I think I have shown, you just don't understand context and therefore have missed not only what is in Scripture, but have totally misunderstood, and misrepresented everything I have said and espouse.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Why?

Because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), therefore, when you cease from sin, you follow the law. You say that a person must stop sinning to truly be saved - well that's adding works to salvation, which means that Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, and Romans 5:1-2, Romans 5:18, John 3:16, Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31, 1 John 5:1, Romans 10:9-13, and Ephesians 1:13 all refute you.

In these two statements of you have made my point, I have no idea as to what your attempting to say.
Therefore I won't.

Why?

Because all of the aforementioned verses state PLAINLY that salvation is by grace through faith, also known as believing, on Christ.

There is nothing in these verses about ceasing from sin to be saved, or that a saved Christian will cease from sinning.

I know this was a long post, but you are very long winded in your response to me.

I felt I owed it to you to answer each reference you made, rather than just saying (Your Wrong).

So I will say Good Night you you as well.