Very bad problem! Need major advice!(Long)

[Arclight610]

So school is almost out and everything was going happily for me. This last week of school I've been hanging out less with my girlfriend and more with my friends because this is the time that we will be all together. I usually call my girlfriend everyday at 4pm, but this last Friday I didn't have the chance to call. It was the last day of school and we all wanted to do something. We stood in the parking lot until about 3:30 when we decided we should go to a pizzaria that was about 20 miles away. I drove to my house to upload some picks we took at school that day. I was heading back down my lane at around 4:10 when i spotted my girlfriends car. I knew I was going to miss this call because I didn't have time and I am too poor for a cell phone. I'd hoped she would understand. Things continued as normal after that. I went to work the next day (Saturday) and called my girlfriend after work to talk to her. The conversation went normal and well. The next day was Sunday, church day. I had a terrible headache that morning and wasn't feeling extremely well. My girlfriend and I sit at church together and because of my state I wasn't really being all that affectionate or paying much attention to her. I guess that was a bad thing. Since I didn't talk to her much in church I decided to call her (I was feeling a bit better). We started the conversation normally and after about fifteen minutes it got onto the subject about how we really haven't been seeing each other that much. After that she started to break down and cry about how I never want to spend time with her, how she feels she can never be good enough for me, how I don't love her anymore, and various other emotions she had been bottling up for the past few months. Well, as you can imagine I was quite confused at first. I tried to assure her that I still love her. She told me that I was just saying that and that I really didn't mean it. She said I treat her like crap and differently when my friends are around. She said that have her as a girlfriend to say that I have a girlfriend not because I want to marry her. Okay, this hurt me and shocked me. I knew we couldn't resolve this over the phone so I took a trip to her house. When she came to the door she seemed better. We walked outside and sat on the nearby bench to discuss these issues. I convinced her that I truly love her and that I was extremely sorry if I had been treating her as bad as she said I was. I promised her that I would do everything in my power to be a better boyfriend. We hugged and kissed and everything was happy again. The problem is that her family is extremely close to one another. When one member is sad, they all feel the pain. Her father and sister just wanted us to be happy together, but her mother was still very angry at me for hurting her daughter. I wrote her an apology email.

Hello Mrs. Taber,
Where to start... So yesterday came to me with a bit of shock, mixed feelings, and shame. I hadn't realized that my behavior towards Cassy had degraded to such a point that it has been. Ok so I admit that now looking back upon my past actions I may not have been as good as they should have. I could tell on the phone conversation and on the walk had alot more bottled up emotion inside of her than she'd liked to have let out. I apologize for my change of behavior and any grief that I may have caused your family yesterday. It pretty much hit me like a hammer when Cassy started to sob over the phone on how strongly she had felt the way she does. I will work on everything she described. And no, I didn't go drinking on "Senior Night" and my headache on Saturday and Sunday wasn't induced by a hangover. We also discussed many more things on our walk in Sinnissippi also such as future career plans. Apparently Cassy has been let known more of my future than I have (more details if you want). Oh yea... please don't be too hard on her for not calling you yesterday. The whole idea of going to the Friendship House and grabbing that movie she wanted to see was my idea. I more or less pushed her into it. Once again, my extreme apologies for everything. Tell me iyour feelings on the subject matter if you'd be willing and/or if you have less trust in me?

Sincerely,
Terry

I'll try to explain some of the email here. "Senior Night" is the last day of school around here and that is usually the day when the seniors go partying and drinking. I had a headache the next morning so it appeared like I had a hangover to everyone, even though I don't do that sort of stuff. Instead me and my friends went to the pizza place, walked the banks of the Mississippi River, watched Solaris, and played Dead or Alive 4. We all went home at around midnight. The part about my future career is the choice between going to college or going into the military. I feel God wants me to go into the military and my girlfriend had a vision to confirm it. She just didn't let me know about it because she doesn't want me to go in. I can't blame her. It will seperate us and she cares for me. My parents said that they will disown me if I go into the military right after high school. They don't believe that God plays an active part in our lives and if I tried to explain to them that it is God's will for me, they would not understand. They say the military pays horrible and I will have a horrible life and no job opportunities past the military. I guess they don't understand that money isn't the source of happiness. This decision has been nagging at me since October. The "Friendship House" is a coffee house that we stopped by after our walk at Sinnissippi park to grab a bite to eat. We also grabbed a movie. My girlfriend was suppose to call if we deviated from our predecribed path so her parents were a bit upset. It was my idea though so I tried to apologize for it. Here is her reply.

Terry,

Where to start....it wasn't just yesterday. I haven't been too happy with your behavior since March. It seemed to degrade a little more everytime you were around.
Frankly, you treat my daughter like you don't love her. I was beginning to wonder if you just wanted our family but not her. When we went for walks you spent the whole time arguing with me and throwing rocks at her or putting bugs on her. I felt no love between you. More like anger from you to her. It scared me. I started to question her about your behavior and how you treated her in private. HUGE red flag momment for me!. I found out why she'd become obsessed with losing weight. You pinch her fat, shake her, poke her hit her (all in supposed jest). She told me she didn't know if she could ever be good enough for you. All emotional abuse in my book. I don't want that for my daughter! I decided to try to pray about it and let God take care of it. i talked to cassy about it too. Then this last week.......can i be frank? You didn't act like you cared if you ever saw her. Then Friday you didn't call. I saw you leaving for your "party" at 4:10 so i'm not believing the couldn't call cause we left early lie.
Then saturday when she asked what all you did you didn't want to tell her everything. She saw all the pictures on your sight and that you'd taken every single one of her off. How mean was that , Terry?! And don't tell me it wasn't intentional! Then yesterday in church.... don't give me the "I thought everyone was mad at me."lie. You came through the door acting like you didn't want to be there and walked around like you wished you didn't have to sit with her. I found out by questioning Cas that you've not kissed but a peck goodbye for weeks. That's not normal for people in love. So, i question if you are.

Now, you can do one of two things right now. Which ever one you choose don't deny your feelings or lie to yourself. You can get some counseling and work on you lying and anger and agression. And if you love my daughter try to show it more and be truthful. Or you can say you don't love her except as a friend and do what you're mad she ruined for you and go in the army. It seemed like when you had to make that decision all the anger started.


I don't hate you Terry. In fact i've been sick about this. But, i can't just stand by and watch my daughter cry every night cause she feels like she can't be pretty enough, skinny enough, athletic enough, ....... She's been so unhappy lately. It's been really hard to watch. I want God's will for her. I've been praying sooooo much about this.
I pray for you every single day. I pray that God will help you break down the generational anger and open you up to his Holy Spirit. I really think counseling with Pastor Jim would be a good thing. I think some things in your past are keeping you from complete surrender to God.

As for my trust in you. I can't lie and say i trust you 100 %. You've lied to me alot. Actually i think you lie to yourself alot. But i do love you like a son. It hurts me to see this relationship in the state that it's in. Just know that I will be praying. Take some time to pray and read His word yourself. Ask Him to reveal stuff to you.
Ask Him if Cassy is in your future. They don't call him Counselor for nothing....seek His counsel. Let me know what he says.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Taber

At this point she is trying to tell me that my behavior has been degrading and I no longer treat my girlfriend like I should. I can assure you though that the poking, playful tapping, stuff were in good nature. I had no intention of making my girlfriend seem "fat" I was just trying to have fun. It might of helped if my girlfriend had told me about how she felt about this. Mrs. Taber recommends that I choose if I want her as my friend or my girlfriend. I definatly want her as my girlfriend. She also recommends that I seek "counseling" for my aggressive behavior for poking and stuff. I'm not really comfortable with counseling seeing as how everyone would look at me differently.

My reply back to her reply.


Dear Mrs. Taber


Frankly, you treat my daughter like you don't love her.

-I love her-

Then Friday you didn't call. I saw you leaving for your "party" at 4:10 so i'm not believing the couldn't call cause we left early lie.

-That is where you are dead wrong. We were all talking in the parking lot up until 3:30. We quickly went to Jeff's to try to upload pictures but he didn't have any CD's so we came to my house and uploaded them. I truly didn't have time and I don't think a 1 or 2 minute phone call would have meant that much. If you do remember on the Six Flags trip even after I was dead I still called the minute I got back on the bus and I call nearly everday so don't think of me as so heartless.

She saw all the pictures on your sight and that you'd taken every single one of her off. How mean was that , Terry?! And don't tell me it wasn't intentional!

-Yea, its so my friends can get them off of myspace since we all didn't have access to the digital camera. I'm going to change them around every few days until I'm through the whole lot then I will change my pictures back. Don't be so quick to judge my intentions.

Then yesterday in church.... don't give me the "I thought everyone was mad at me."lie.

-Yesterday it did seem like everyone was mad at me. Your husband said "Hi Terry" but he kept eye contact longer than normal. You gave a few passing glances.

I found out by questioning Cas that you've not kissed but a peck goodbye for weeks. That's not normal for people in love. So, i question if you are.

-The only times that we've seen each other have been at youth and at church and it hasn't been "weeks". Sorry that I don't feel confortable kissing her in front of everyone! The last on was either last the coffee house or when you visited me at work. I don't call that the exaggerated "weeks"

Which ever one you choose don't deny your feelings or lie to yourself. You can get some counseling and work on you lying and anger and agression.

-I don't believe counseling is necessary. Seriously I don't think there is anything sociopathically wrong with me. I've faired pretty good with my social life at school and everywhere else. And in no way I am limited to those two options.

And if you love my daughter try to show it more and be truthful. Or you can say you don't love her except as a friend and do what you're mad she ruined for you and go in the army. It seemed like when you had to make that decision all the anger started.

-Indeed having to make that decision has brought on tension recently but in no way do I express anger towards her for it. I've just accepted it. Oh yes and don't judge my story before you know every aspect of it. It doesn't just involve some petty career decisions... it goes much furthur than that.

Okay, not trying to defend myself. I agree that many of the things I have done are wrong, but you have also misconceptionalized some of it. Oh yes and I have asked the Lord everyday since the beginning of Cassy and I getting together if she is the one for me. Yea, I haven't been getting very good results.

Respectfully,

Terry Mandrell





I tried to reply with as much dignity left as I had. I don't think I was disrespectful in any of it and just replied as I thought appropriate. Her reply back:

 

[Arclight610]

ok so you can make excuses for the recent things i've mention. But, making excuses only keeps you in your problem. You can't make an excuse for the hitting,poking pinching and other manner of agressive behavior. That's the part that bothers me the most and yes you do need counseling, Terry.
I pray you see that. Until you quit making excuses i'll not trust you with Cassy. I'm sorry.

Because I tried to correct her mistake its now called an excuse? It seems at this point that she is purposely trying to degrade me and make me feel bad, instead of trying to find a solution to the problem.

My replies back to her:

I'm sorry to hear that you don't trust me anymore with your daughter. Maybe I can prove myself to you in the future? But nevertheless Cassy and I have talked since the last email. Since we both agree that I do not treat her as I should, we discussed multiple possibilities for the course of the relationship. I had thought everything was resolved but I guess they haven't been. SInce you do not trust me with Cassy anymore, does that mean I am not allowed to date her?

Instead of overreacting and turning bitter, I tried a nice sensible reply. I promised that I will treat her better in the future and I am eager to regain her trust back. I admitted I was wrong and asked for what advice I should take. I'm still against counseling as I don't think it really necessary.

All right. I'll stop with the "excuses", just try to understand that you have some of your story mixed up. Putting pride aside and soaking up the humility. What course of action do you believe I should take? I seriously don't believe that counseling is necessary. That's a bit over the edge don't you believe? Email me back if you get the chance.

Her reply:

Why are you so resistant to talking to someone about your aggression? And don't tell me you don't have a problem with it. I've seen it and others have told me they were worried about it too. I really think it would be a good thing. I don't think it's over the edge at all. And as far as you dating my daughter i think a little time away from each other to work on yourselves would be good. Cassy needs to decide she is beautiful to her creator and that's all that matters. And she needs to decide if she loves you as well as you deciding if you really love her in a boyfriend way or just a friend way. I just don't get a passionate vibe off you guys. She's very young and you are her first love. I'm not sure she knows what love is yet. Maybe sometime away will confirm one way or another. I'm not saying you can't see each other ever. I just think you need to take a break for a couple weeks and see what happens. In the meantime work on your relationship to the Lord. I noticed that you changed your music taste and stuff on your myspace too. What's that about? It seems like when you hang with your h.s friends you change. And when you fill your mind with aggressive war movies and
music it changes you too. Ask God what he thinks about it. See what his word says. Spend sometime deciding what you believe and if your beliefs are compatable with Cassy's. I'll still be praying for you and know that you can talk to me whenever you want. I don't hate you. I want what's best for you and for Cassy. I think you both need time to figure out what that is.

Sincerely, Mom Taber

This email really hurt me. It questioned the fact whether I truly love my girlfriend or not and suggests (in my opinion) detrimental courses to our relationship... such as time off from each other. That is how this thing got started, because we hadn't been spending as much time together and she suggests taking a couple weeks away from each other? That was all the emails for that night. I went over to my GF's again to "talk". We cried alot. This email hurt both of us very dearly. We had everything resolved, but the email just made the problem escalate. We came a hairline from breaking up with each other. I would have rather sacrificed my relationship with her, so that their mother and daughter relationship would no longer suffer. Many tears were shed that night. We couldn't bring ourselves to do it though. We talked more of my future career plans. We decided that we will stay together and just see how this rides out after asking God what he thinks. That night, I was sort of upset at Mrs. Taber, whether justified or not. All it seemed like was she was destroying the relationship. It goes as follows:

 

[AceHero]

Wow. This is the longest post I've ever read on CF. But I can see that really care about this girl by pouring out heart like this. Personally, I've never been in a relationship before, but I can understand how frustrated you are. We can all get frustrated with our parents, and I think it must be even more discouraging when it's with a significant other, because I'm sure you're always trying to live up to their standards and impress them.

Some parents can be really stubborn. Even when they have the facts laid down before them, just as you've done, they still refuse to believe anything other than what they've said. While they don't involve relationships, I've been partially involved in some recent experiences where the people you have trusted for years (or just did so in general) made a complete turnaround and deceived my family. And they are the parents of my best friend. It's so confusing.

Terry, the first and foremost thing to do, obviously, is to pray. Pray like you never have before. It sounds like you really care about this girl. I'm sure you love her a lot. Her mom just needs to realize that you're not just putting on a show to keep your girlfriend.

Ask your girlfriend what she thinks of this. I'm sure it's excruciating for her right now; it's almost impossible for her to choose sides without making an enemy out of one of them. Just make sure she has your trust.

My only question is: what does the dad think of all this? Is her neutral, or does her just quietly go along with your girlfriend's mother.

May God bless your girlfriend and you and I hope only the best comes out of the situation.

 

[Arclight610]

Dear Mrs. Taber

Be forewarned, this email is long! I still don't really know how you feel about me so far on it or anything but still know that I am truly sorry. I believe you should let Cassy make her own decision about her relationship and to not make it feel like she is "stupid" if she doesn't take your advice. I also believe that you are wrong in saying that Cassy doesn't know what true love is and/or she is too young to experience true love. She has told me herself that she loves me and I feel that she loves me more than I can imagine. She also started to burst into tears today when I asked her if she loved me. Her reply "I love you sooooo much." She is deadly afraid of losing me as I am deadly afraid of losing her. If that isn't true love... I don't know what is. If you don't think that I love Cassy, then you are wrong at that point too. I love Cassy more than anything of this world. She asked me if I truly loved her today also when you and Cherise were at Wal-mart. I also replied in tears "I love so much!" I love this girl. I want to be with her for the rest of my life and I also believe that she wants to be with me too. I don't know if you believe it is just "puppy love" or not, but we definatly think differently about it. What is up with recommending the two weeks of no seeing each other. Do you want this problem to just be exacerbated to the point of breakdown? I can't a few days without seeing her let alone two weeks. I sat by the phone for 3 hours waiting for her to call back because I didn't want to miss it. I really don't know what to say beyond this point. All I want is your approval I guess. Let the barrage of of character flaw point-outs begin again and tell me what you think.

Cassy needs to decide she is beautiful to her creator and that's all that matters.
Because she's not beautiful to me?

And she needs to decide if she loves you as well as you deciding if you really love her in a boyfriend way or just a friend way. I just don't get a passionate vibe off you guys.
She's decided but you call her "stupid" for her decision. Seems like its more or less your decision than anything.

She's very young and you are her first love. I'm not sure she knows what love is yet.
She may be young, but she definatly knows what love is.

Maybe sometime away will confirm one way or another. I'm not saying you can't see each other ever. I just think you need to take a break for a couple weeks and see what happens
I will go insane. Also the next few weeks involves your Memorial Day singing thing, my graduation, my graduation get-together, and after-grad dinner with Cassy that I don't think she asked you about yet. I convinced my family that it would be a good idea if I invited Cassy to go out and eat with us after graduation. I asked her Sunday, has she told you yet?

I noticed that you changed your music taste and stuff on your myspace too. What's that about? It seems like when you hang with your h.s friends you change. And when you fill your mind with aggressive war movies and music it changes you too.
I no longer have a Myspace. It was no longer serving the purpose that I had originally intended for it so I ended it. My taste in music hasn't changed except for the fact that I like Anberlin now after I've listened to them. I haven't changed when I hang around my PHS friends. I admit that I may act different because I am extremely comfortable around them. I'll agree that watching aggressive war movies and listening to aggressive music does make me more adrenal and violence prone. I try to work on that and video games. Especially Halo. I love Halo, but I guess it's making me violent so I'll stop.

Ask God what he thinks about it. See what his word says. Spend sometime deciding what you believe and if your beliefs are compatable with Cassy's.
I do everynight. I attempt to everynight. I don't get very many answers and if I do I probably don't recognize them. I don't no what you mean if my beliefs are compatable with Cassy's. Do you mean like religiously, politically, or socially? I need more clarification.

I'll still be praying for you and know that you can talk to me whenever you want. I don't hate you. I want what's best for you and for Cassy.
I thank you for your prayers. Its refreshing to know that you don't hate me and I can talk to you whenever. It's good to know that you want what's best for Cassy and I, but I do believe there may be better alternatives to what you have described.

I think you both need time to figure out what that is.
I think the opposite may be true. Maybe we having been spending enough time together?

You can't make an excuse for the hitting,poking pinching and other manner of agressive behavior.
I'm extremely sorry. I'll stop. I'm definatly not taking anger out on Cassy in anyway. I viewed it as more playful, but if you, Cassy, and others find it emotionally/physically abusive I will stop.

Until you quit making excuses i'll not trust you with Cassy. I'm sorry.
Sorry that I have lost your trust. I'll try to prove to you that I am worthy enough.

Where to start....it wasn't just yesterday. I haven't been too happy with your behavior since March. It seemed to degrade a little more everytime you were around.
I apologize.

Frankly, you treat my daughter like you don't love her.
Believe me that I do love your daughter. I'll try everybit to show it more now on.

When we went for walks you spent the whole time arguing with me and throwing rocks at her or putting bugs on her. I felt no love between you. More like anger from you to her.
No anger, I'm just trying to be playful.

I started to question her about your behavior and how you treated her in private. HUGE red flag momment for me!. I found out why she'd become obsessed with losing weight. You pinch her fat, shake her, poke her hit her (all in supposed jest). She told me she didn't know if she could ever be good enough for you. All emotional abuse in my book. I don't want that for my daughter!
I'm and truly sorry. I didn't realize it.

Then Friday you didn't call. I saw you leaving for your "party" at 4:10 so i'm not believing the couldn't call cause we left early lie.
Once again, no lie but all truth. It also wasn't a party. We went to Manny's pizza in Fulton, walked around by the Mississippi, watch Solaris, and played Dead or Alive4.

I pray that God will help you break down the generational anger and open you up to his Holy Spirit.
There is seriously no generational anger. I have no idea where you have gotten that whole idea from. There is also nothing in my past. There is no general anger. If you don't know I am a very very happy person. Sure I can't smile on impulse, I like to be serious sometimes, and I like playful rough-housing. Does that automatically make me an abusive and anger-filled person? I'm sorry that Nate and Dave think I am an angry person and that I don't like them. I didn't say 20 words to them the whole night and it is hard to be happy and all crazily fun when I don't know these people. I'll stop my play pokes and hitting if it bothers everyone then. I am truly sorry for everything. I do love Cassy and I believe Cassy loves me. The last thing we need right now is to be seperated.

Ask God what he thinks about it.
I'll use this as a generalization. I've asked Him day in and day out. Still no definate answer that I can discern about anything. As for my career-wise. I believe I am suppose to go into the military. I really don't know why... but I get this feeling. I also get this feeling that I shouldn't be seperated from Cassy and that I should stick around. As you can see they are conflicting interests. If I go into the military my parents will disown me, but I am willing to live with that. If I go to Sauk I may be entering a career that I was never meant to be in. I've told all my friends (who told thier families) at the beginning of the year that I was going into the military and that is what they are expecting. Now if I tell them that I plan on changing my career because of "some girl" they will disown me. I don't really expect them to know what it is like to love someone like that right now. That is why Jeff and I are so close because we both know what having feelings for someone is truly like. He understands and he said that if he had met Naomi earlier, he would have never joined the Marine Corps. I guess I can live with the fact of my friends disowning me. I won't be seeing them much after this anyways and I still have Cassy (I hope). Before you look at my career choices and think of it has some silly little sitcom type predicament, think again. Each choice has a terrible consequence to pay... It's not as easy as you think.

Love,
Terry


I addressed every little segment of everything as I saw fit at the time. It must have had an impact on her though, because I found out that she was crying when she read it.

Her reply:

I'm a bit angry about this whole thing. You ask my opinion but then you blast me for it. I don' t hate you. I'm praying. Conversation over.

I wrote the next one a bit after I wrote the last one. I hadn't realized that the last one had impacted her so much so I came down a bit harsh on this one. It follows:

"I'll still be praying for you and know that you can talk to me whenever you want." - Michelle Taber- (Previous email)

"Conversation over." -Michelle Taber-

I do you want to talk to you, but it seems like you do not wish to talk to me. That is fine I guess, but it leaves many questions unanswered on your part.

"I'm a bit angry about this whole thing." - Michelle Taber-

"I don' t hate you."

Anger is the cornerstone to being bitter and eventually hating. Not talking about it WILL also lead to speculation and assumptions and unresolved conflict if you also can't see that. I guess I can't talk to you "whenever I want." I wish you the best of luck in whatever may come to you.


Terry


I talked to my girlfriend today and realized that I came down too hard. In actuality I just want this to all be over, so I just submitted with my last email. I don't know whether I was in the right or in the wrong, all I know is that I wanted my girlfriend back and our relationships being back to normal... even if that means counseling and taking a reputation hit. Here is my final email, its a bit more friendly:


Good morning Mrs. Taber,
I sent you an email last night furthur concerning the situation. I pretty much demanded answers in that email and condemned your unwillingness to want to discuss it furthur. I realized that this was wrong of me and I apologize. I now realize that you want to leave this in God's hands. I also must realize that this whole mess was caused by my terrible behavior and I have no right in an attempt to justify myself. I now admit that everything I did was wrong and I have no more excuses. I also would like to apologize for the rest of my emails. I never meant to "manipulate" your words to make it appear like something that you didn't mean to say. I guess this will be on of my last emails pertaining to this subject. I am willingly open to any / all suggestions that you have or advice that you have. No more justification or arguing from my side. I'm done. I'm wrong. I also apologize for any grief I have caused you.

-TJM-


My girlfriend and I have been dating for about 9 months and we had a very strong relationship. Her mother and I had a very strong relationship also. It all seemed to turn into a nightmare overnight. I am accused of not showing my love, being too aggressive to her, and pretty much being a bad boyfriend. I am an athletic person and I have a pretty good body. My girlfriend is not so athletic in her body so maybe I make her feel inferior to me? In no way did I want to make my playful gestures turn into "your fat." Another thing is my future career decision. I feel that God is calling me into the military, but my parents will disown me if I go instead of college. They say that I have changed after making that decision. Once again sorry this is all jumbled and I hope you can make sense of it all. I thank you all for your suppose and such. This girl means the world to me. The situation between my girlfriend and I have been resolved, but there still remains immense tension between her mother and me. I do not know whether I am right or I am wrong about this whole thing. I just want it to be over and back to normal. I love her too much to lose her.

-Terry-

 

[Deliberatetourist]

All due respects...you really shouldn't have to be communicating with the mother hen. What went down is between you and the daughter. Sometimes family ties can be too close.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

Something that you need to realize about email is that there is no verbal intonation or non-verbal communication to clarify the message. You need to be careful with it. Since you don't live that far away it probably would've been better to have these discussions in person.

I thing it's strange that her mother is questioning the love you two feel. As a mother, I wouldn't be asking my child or their SO to prove their love. I would probably try to discourage that until after college.

Girls/women are often very sensitive about their weight-even when they're not overweight. Walking together is good, but pinching love handles, asking her why she's eating that, etc. is not good.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

As a mom of two girls, reading those emails and taking them as truth (from both sides) I can see why her mom would be so concerned. You said you did not want to see a counselor b/c of how people would look at you? That sends red flags to me. That is pride. And it confirms some of the fears her mother is having. Going through the counseling will proove one of two things, either the counselor will agree with you and confirm to her mom that you do not have aggression issues, inwhich case you have just shown her mother that you are willing to do anything for her daughter, or it will confirm to you that maybe you have agression issues you don't realize, which will still proove to her mom that you are willing to do anythign for her daughter. You are 17, I assume you girlfriend is also 17, or possibly 16? At this young age, you absolutely do need to answer to the parents. IMO you need to answer to the parents regardless of your age, this is THEIR daughter. She was their daughter long before she became your girlfriend, and she will always be their daughter regardless of where your relationship ends up. They have her best interest at heart. They are looking out for her. You said you had a good relationship with the mom, so you should be able to see that this is not a case of the mom just not liking you and trying to get rid of you. She has seen your treatment of her daughter and how it affects her daughter and she doesn't like it. It is your job to proove you are worthy of her daughter. Not only to them but to her, and to God.

Now let me tell you something about girls. Always call! Even a 1 minute conversation is better then no call at all, that is how women work. Also the pinching, poking, etc. Yea your girlfriend should have told you, but you shouldn't have been doing it to begin with. That is just disrespectful, even if your motives were pure. Your girlfriend is someone to cherish, someone that should be treated differently then your friends. Is this someone you want to marry? Or that you could marry? If not then why are you with her? If she is then you should be treating her the way a husband treats a wife, by cherishing her, and putting her before all others. including your friends. I agree with her mom, you need to decide if this is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, or if this is someone to have to pass the time with.

 

[charligirl]

There is so much here to comment on I would have to be here all day, so instead I will pull out the one thing that really jumped out at me, because it speaks volumes about your situation.

Dear Mrs. Taber

She also started to burst into tears today when I asked her if she loved me. Her reply "I love you sooooo much." She is deadly afraid of losing me as I am deadly afraid of losing her. If that isn't true love... I don't know what is.

That categorically is NOT true love, the fact you think it is shows that you are not ready for a serious relationship at this point in your life. Being deadly afraid of losing someone speaks of insecurity and co-dependancey and is extremely unhealthy.

Love is a complex thing, but is is not merely a feeling or an emotional thing, yes of course true love produces some great emotions, desire and passion being two of them, but love is actually a verb.

When you love someone you put them first, you would do anything for them... even never seeing them again if that was best for them. Love is about sacrifice and unconditional acceptance and love even when you don;t much like them, or they have hurt you. It is a decision, you choose to love someone, come what may.

Now I have no idea whether the two of you have a future, whether the feelings you have for each other now will develop into a lasting deep Godly union, or whether they are more intense, hormonal desire and insecurities.

If it was my daughter I would be saying much the same as her mother is doing -I would also question why your girlfriend is so afraid of losing you and loves you so much when she obviously feels you have hurt her by your conduct. That is the LAST thing a girl should feel from her boyfriend, she should feel wanted, pursued, like a princess.

The best advice is to have a break, cry out to God and wait for his answer. If indeed you are right for one another and this is true love then IT WILL WAIT.
If you are too scared to do that and feel that is what has caused these problems in the start then I am sorry, what you have is not genuinely God or is it lasting. True love waits - desire and youthfull passion clings on in desperation.

I hope you sort this out and find God's path for you both.

 

[livin4christ9203]

Wow, this is a lot to take in. At your age, others are right, parents should be involved to a point. I feel that you are both probably too young to understand what "real love" is.. One thing I recently learned.. and I"ve been married 4 years almost.. is that love is not a feeling!! It is an action!! Real love you don't always "feel" It's more than that.. real love is being able to love someone even after knowing all of their faults.. it's more than just that gushy feeling you have when you first start.. I think that's a big reason for divorce.. because people lose that "feeling" and think they don't love each other anymore. But in real love.. you don't always "feel" in love and sometimes you can't stand each other, but deep down you know you love each other and you will stick together. Love is a bond that nothing can break. unless we let it. But anyway!!! That's beside the point right now.

Autumn is right, if you have time for a 1 minute call.. then do it! I have this discussion with my husband now.. lol Trust me she will be happier with that 1 minute than with nothing.. nothing gets you in trouble! I said at your age, I think parents should be involved to an extent.. but you still need to be able to express your own feelings and you are allowed to work through this without mom being in the middle. While you could stand to understand a little more about girls.. your girlfriend seems a little whiney to me. Your only 17 and maybe 16? Does her mom think you should be all over her at church?? I think it's crazy that she thinks you need to kiss her more. Some people believe that they shouldn't even kiss until they are married.. they believe that it's just as much important as waiting too have sex until married. I don't now.. you really need to pray hard about this.

The situation I wanted to address that no one else has.. is the military thing. This has to be your decision and your parents are wrong.. I think they may be discouraging you because they are scared of you going to war or something.. most parents are. pay to start out isn't wonderful.. but if you are not married... the military pays for everything pretty much.. you live on base... its a little harder if you have a family.. I was a military wife for awhile. But you can retire at only 20 years and you have so many benefits.. if you go in at 18.. you'd retire at 38 and you could have a whole new career after t hat. They are wrong about the job possibilites after military... Depending on the job you take, you will learn skills for civilian jobs.. and outside of that you learn good discipline and everything. Even if you were to only serve one term in the military.. you would be able to get into college for free while in and when you get out.. you will have access to the home loan thing.. where they pay all of your closing costs and down payment.. you will be eligible for that. Not to mention.. when you go to apply for a civilian job.. just a statistic.. but 9 times out of 10 they will pick the person who had military experience over anyone else... most likely because of the discipline and honor. Now don't get me wrong... I don't think the military is for everyone.. being a military wife isn't for everyone.. I will be honest, I hated it.. and I don't want to be one again, but I do know the benefits and if you feel lead to go.. then you should. But if that is what you want for your life, then maybe you and your girl friend are not meant to be if she doesn't feel like she is cut out to be a military wife. It's a hard job.. they say the military wife's job is the hardest. There are so many wide varieties of jobs in the military and it is the best training! You need to do what is going to be best for you at this point! All I can say is pray pray pray!

 

[sunshinejennii]

Wow, um something similar happened between my best friend and I about a year ago. (so same age) My mother came off the phone and called me downstairs, sat me down and explained that her best friend (my best friends mother) had just rung and apparently Liz had been very down for a couple or weeks and was more prone to spontaneous crying and was more touchy. She wasn't eating as much and was getting quite self-conscious about her appearance. When questioned she finally told them that I'd said some things about her appearance. Now to me, i'd been teasing her, I would never have said any of those things the way I did if I thought they were true, she is a gorgeous, very slim and toned girl, with a fairy tale princess swath of hair. I honestly think she's beautiful, she's also incredibly clever and hardworking, popular because she's so friendly, and has an amazing faith and is god-grounded. Frankly I find her intimidating at times!! But because i'd said (once) 'ah here comes the ugly sister' when she walked up while I was talking to her sister (i was referring to the fact that her sister was having a cinderella day in her pink and sparkles, and that because liz had been ill her sister had been doing a lot of the housework recently) I'd also made a few other comments, which she'd interpretted as negative but had been neutral, if not postive. In a way it's a compliment that she cares about my opinion so much that it bothered her, but obviously i was incredibly upset that i'd done this to her, we had a long chat and while I've always seen her as the prettier, clever, more hardworking and deserving one, and had a huge amount of respect for her for not having had a boyfriend, because she hadnt encountered a guy she could have a proper relationship with, she felt that my having had a few dalliances and having a lot of male friends must mean i was more attractive, whereas in fact im just nosy and laddish!

I'm not really sure what you can do, except keep apologising, tell her mother that you respect her and if her mother does not want you as her daughter's boyfriend then you'll respect that. Ultimately if you and your girlfriend are in a healthy, god-centred relationship, and it has a future you'll be together. You could split up now but you'd end up getting back together.

 

[Arclight610]

Thanks for the advice and being there everyone! Those wondering my age, I'm 17 going to turn 18 in about a month and she is 16. If "true love" is action, then I guess going through all this trouble of pouring out my whole life in front of everyone so I know what to do best for the relationship has to count for something?

 

[livin4christ9203]

Thanks for the advice and being there everyone! Those wondering my age, I'm 17 going to turn 18 in about a month and she is 16. If "true love" is action, then I guess going through all this trouble of pouring out my whole life in front of everyone so I know what to do best for the relationship has to count for something?

definitely.

 

[YouthPastor]

I did not read all of the posts - but let me start off here;;;

You are dealing with this through email???????????????

Not the best way to handle it! It should be done in person.

her mom has some valid points and some no-valid points.

However, - cassy should have talked to you about the issues.

At 17 - no - she nor you know truely what love is. Sorry. - there she has a point.

 

[YouthPastor]

All due respects...you really shouldn't have to be communicating with the mother hen. What went down is between you and the daughter. Sometimes family ties can be too close.

at 17 if I was her dad - what went on between them would also be my business!

He would also be dealing with me - IN PERSON - not emal!!!

 

[Arclight610]

...At 17 - no - she nor you know truely what love is. Sorry. - there she has a point.

Why? So there is a cutoff age somewhere? I'm old enough to get blown away in war, old enough to elect the people that will lead our nation, but not old enough to know who I love?

 

[livin4christ9203]

Why? So there is a cutoff age somewhere? I'm old enough to get blown away in war, old enough to elect the people that will lead our nation, but not old enough to know who I love?

Well I think they say that because she is still a child as are you! you may not see it that way.. but those of us who are older and who have been married and through the dating/relationship thing.. or those who have children understand. There is no specefic age.. but I know as long as my children were still at home.. it would be my business.. even though some things like kissing and stuff her mom mentioned make no sense.. i would think her mom wouldn't want you doing that more.. that seems weird. Understanding true love takes time.. we all start out thinking that fluttery feeling is love... when in fact it is an action.. real love is something you do not feel.

 

[sunshinejennii]

I've gotta agree, I think how you define love when you marry is different to how you'd define it at 16-17, or for that matter when you've been married several years. Very few people marry at that age, and I'm inclined to say even those would later say they'd hadn't a clue.

 

[livin4christ9203]

I've gotta agree, I think how you define love when you marry is different to how you'd define it at 16-17, or for that matter when you've been married several years. Very few people marry at that age, and I'm inclined to say even those would later say they'd hadn't a clue.

exactly.. I've been married 4 years.. with my husband 7 years and I"m still figuring out what real love is.. it's finally making sense though now. I"m sure the learning will never stop. When we were 17, he was 18 when we started dating.. we were relying on those feelings... and even early in our marriage.. we had those typical complaints that cause divorces.. I don't "feel" it anymore.. our pastor set us straight... helped us to see that we can't base life on feelings.. feelings can change every second.. real love doesn't change.. I promise you that.. think about God's love, does it ever change??? He never loves us less because of things we do wrong.. He may not always be happy with us for choices we make.. but He will love us always!! His love is unconditional.

 

[Arclight610]

Well since most of you agree unanimously then you guys are probably correct. Maybe we don't know what true love is. Does that me we should stop dating? I mean don't people date each other because they love each other. So if we don't know if we really love each other, maybe we shouldn't date until we are like older?

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Well since most of you agree unanimously then you guys are probably correct. Maybe we don't know what true love is. Does that me we should stop dating? I mean don't people date each other because they love each other. So if we don't know if we really love each other, maybe we shouldn't date until we are like older?

IMO you shouldn't date until you are ready to get married. Do I think someone at 16 or 17 can know what real love is? YUP! I did. I started dating my husband at 15 got engaged at 16 and married at 18, we have been married for almost 12 years and are just as in love now as we were then.