Verses That Disprove SDA Sabbath

[bugkiller]

This thread seems to be getting side tracked as most threads do. The original post was discussing a text that disproved the sabbath. There are no texts in the New Testament that proves the sanctity of the sabbath was moved to sunday. That was accomplished purely through traditions over a course of years after the apostles had all died. A close study of all the texts commonly used to prove it was will prove to be lifted out of context and read into the text.
The Catholic Church readily admits it was changed through tradition and claim authority to do so. The Protestant Churches that worship on sunday find themselves in the dilemma of trying to prove it through scripture which, as the Catholic church rightly states, there is no authorization for it in all of scripture.

I have not read every post of this thread. Basicly all I have to say is we have very different Bibles.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

who says that because i dont follow the law written on tablets of stone that kill

that im willfully sinning?



But if i walk in the Spirit, then im not subjective to any law, for what law is there against the Spirit?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.



again, i followed the magnified law.......the one Christ talked about.....

Christ said keep my commandments.......not keep the commandments


explain please

Great response. I like your bolded emphasis.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Jesus kept the Law of God perfectly, that is the example that He left us. Jesus did not leave us an example of disobedience. Therefore, we should be keeping the Law of God. Pagans and sinners transgress the law of God continually because they are not born again, therefore what excuse can we who know the Scriptures give as an excuse for not obeying what is so simple to understand, namely, the 10 Commandments.

Excellent!!!! Which one are you a pagan or a sinner. I always thought of both of them being essentially the same thing. Neither possess salvation. BTW what is someone who violates the law and specifically the 4th and 9th commandments?

bugkiller

 

[TruthWave7]

who says that because i dont follow the law written on tablets of stone that kill

that im willfully sinning?



But if i walk in the Spirit, then im not subjective to any law, for what law is there against the Spirit?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.



again, i followed the magnified law.......the one Christ talked about.....

Christ said keep my commandments.......not keep the commandments

explain please

Do you know your Bible? Jesus said that He was "Iam" the eternal self-existent One. On the Mt. Sinai Moses asked God what is your name, the answer was "Iam". Additionally, Paul stated that Jesus was the One who lead them in the wilderness for 40 years. Note, this key text:

I Cor. 10:3-5

"And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."

Therefore, we can conclude that Jesus was the Lawgiver in the Bible. Remember, when God writes something with His own finger, if any of those were to be changed it would be very clearly said in the Scriptures by God himself. But, we have no record of God doing away with the 10 Commandments, so why are you and so many on this forums wanting to do away with something that was written by the finger of God? Just think of the consequences if you find in the end that you were on the wrong side of the argument? How can you lose by simply obeying God's Holy Laws? They were put in place for your benefit, if they were not in place think about how much worse it would be on planet earth? The human race would sink to the level of animals and savages.

 

[IOWLBNIF]

then according to you....


abraham isnt saved because he didnt have the law? lol


do you read your bible? and apply logical conclusions based upon what it says?


how about noah?


you dare condemn abraham and noah?

 

[TruthWave7]

Excellent!!!! Which one are you a pagan or a sinner. I always thought of both of them being essentially the same thing. Neither possess salvation. BTW what is someone who violates the law and specifically the 4th and 9th commandments?

bugkiller

Glad to see that you agree with my position. When you break the law, you sin. There is a difference when a genuine Christian who falls in his walk with Jesus, and then confesses and repents of his sin, as compared to someone who knows what the law says, but does not confess his sin, and refuses to obey what he or she knows what is right to do. The contrast can be found in life of Peter vs Judas. They both sinned, but Peter showed heartfelt confession of his sin, while Judas never came to that point, and killed himself, overcome by the guilt of his betrayal of the Son of God.

 

[IOWLBNIF]

Glad to see that you agree with my position. When you break the law, you sin. There is a difference when a genuine Christian who falls in his walk with Jesus, and then confesses and repents of his sin, as compared to someone who knows what the law says, but does not confess his sin, and refuses to obey what he or she knows what is right to do. The contrast can be found in life of Peter vs Judas. They both sinned, but Peter showed heartfelt confession of his sin, while Judas never came to that point, and killed himself, overcome by the guilt of his betrayal of the Son of God.

lol......he was being sarcastic



i think :/ lol

 

[1234321]

I have only read 2 of your posts and have only 2 things to say to you.

First I am very sorry for you to have been trapped by the SDA doctrines.

And sceond you just as well say your are SDA because promoting their doctrines and refusing to identify as as one is saying they are not a Christian religious organization. You fool no one but your self.

bugkiller

Funny, I don't feel trapped by the law of God, I feel liberated. I don't call myself by any denomination just because I share certain belief structures. I could easily call myself Messianic since I [try to] follow the Torah, the NT, believe in Christ, and I [may be] a Hebrew. The label doesn't really matter at all. I believe Christ is my savior, and He died innocently, defeated sin, and is resurrected to Life today - sitting at the right hand of God until His appointed time. I believe that obedience to God (i.e. following His laws) shows love and faith, even though failure to follow His laws do not condemn me to death, and Hell, and I am justified by His grace. I believe that only unrepentant sinful behavior, lack of faith in, and ignorance of Christ will send me to hell when judged by God. I believe that belief in Christ affords me the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to live in and through me, transforming me into a new Christ-like creature.

So, fit that into whatever box you think it fits. I am sorry if you feel like I am trying to fool anyone, or that I am trapped because i want to follow God's laws, even if I am 100% incapable of perfectly following them all.

 

[Ronald]

[TruthWave7;60769228]
Your reasoning is illogical. If as believe that you are not required to keep the 4th Commandment of the 10

The ten commandments were given to the Jews, along with another 603. One purpose of Christ's sacrifice was to fulfill the Law for us. We are not under the law, we are under grace. You are a legalist. Christ gave us two commandments, concerning love and all fall under those. He is the Sabbath, He is our rest. Do you keep 250 Sabbath laws? I don't think so. You need to study Romans concerning the law and grace. We can't keep any of the laws, we fail and that is the point. It's A NEW COVENANANT.
"Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." JER. 31:31-34
The disciples used the Law and Prophets to validate who Jesus was not to put that heavy yoke on them.

 

[TruthWave7]

then according to you....

abraham isnt saved because he didnt have the law? lol

do you read your bible? and apply logical conclusions based upon what it says?

how about noah?

you dare condemn abraham and noah?

The answer to your question is simple: Read the narratives in the OT regarding Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, Jesus spoke to them face to face. Additionally, they through the godly line of Patriarchs, like Enoch, seventh from Adam orally shared the plan of salvation and the commandments of God.

Note, these key texts, regarding Enoch, Noah, Abraham:

Genesis 5:23-25

Enoch

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.


Jude 1:14-16



"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage."


Abraham



Genesis 17:1-27


And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."


Noah


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

 

[TruthWave7]

Your reasoning is illogical. If as believe that you are not required to keep the 4th Commandment of the 10
[/QUOTE
The ten commandments were given to the Jews, along with another 603. One purpose of Christ's sacrifice was to fulfill the Law for us. We are not under the law, we are under grace. You are a legalist. Christ gave us two commandments, concerning love and all fall under those. He is the Sabbath, He is our rest. Do you keep 250 Sabbath laws? I don't think so. You need to study Romans concerning the law and grace. We can't keep any of the laws, we fail and that is the point. It's A NEW COVENANANT.
"Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." JER. 31:31-34
The disciples used the Law and Prophets to validate who Jesus was not to put that heavy yoke on them.

Your understanding of the 10 Commandments is illogical and dead wrong.
The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God, while the other 603 laws were written by Moses on paper, they were transitory in nature. You need to rightly divide the word of truth, before you spout off. Why do you think that God wrote the 10 Commandments in stone with his own finger, by passing Moses? Because God wanted to make a statement they were to be laws of an enduring nature. Yet, you and so many others want to change and do away with something God inspired and wrote in stone! How arrogant and presumptious is that?!

 

[winslow]

.

 

[mog144]

It's obvious that this group seems to miss the whole point as to why any Christian would want to keep the commandments of God in every respect, including the Sabbath day.

First off, any violation or transgression against the Almighty will bring curses and wrath down upon the people. Living in and with sin doesn't mean that our punishment will be held back until or after Judgment day. We know that this earth is cursed, He told us this in Genesis.

Keeping the Sabbath will never save any soul, nor keeping any of the law to the letter. We are to keep the Spirit of the Law but He has an Order as well. What happened to the "Order" in "Law and Order"? People get confused over simple wording and phrasing as in how the Bible defines "Law". When the Bible speaks of Law it also includes the Authoritative figure who commands that law, therefore we know that there must be an Authoritative Order to the Law of God and that is God, Himself. This said, who are we to negotiate any of God's law? How dare us, we little things tell the Creator another order concerning the works of His Hands [Isa 45:11].

The Sabbath Covenant is what It's all about, dear friends. Breaking the Sabbath also breaks the Holy Covenant that was instituted in Creation so to give to His people for all generations of those obedient children who honor it in spirit as well. They used to burn witches for violations against the Church. It is better to destroy one enemy than to risk losing the entire Flock. The yeast would contaminate the loaf of dough; you know the parables, right? Well, this is what those parables mean, in case you haven't given them any consideration or thought.

The plan of Salvation does include keeping the Sabbath Holy and making other choices is your own decision. We are told not to deceive ourselves with heresies against the Truth, yet the entire world has accepted all of the things that Jesus rejected while 40 days in the wilderness. He was sustained in the Spirit during that time and the natural elements were secondary, or maybe completely absent from Jesus, so to not rely on any natural substance for enduring the space of time without any natural food and water.

Jesus hungered after the 40 days were finished, He then hungered naturally when He came down from an elevated experience in Glory with the Father in Heaven. Satan was tempting Him in thought just as he does us. If I was up there and in the Spirit, satan would try to cause me to stumble and thirst for natural waters.

The Covenant is a contract, a simple but Mighty one, if we obey Him and call Him our God, He will lift us up on High in Spirit even while in the flesh. This is where we must differentiate between flesh and spirit, we cannot please God by merely keeping the law or a specific day of the week but we must keep every detail as to what the Law dictates. Law assigns permissions and restrictions, so stop looking at it as all restrictions. I'd rather be bound to Ten laws than thousands of mans.

The choice is your's. Choose wisely!

 

[winslow]

.

 

[IOWLBNIF]

the sabbath covenant is not what its all about



Its all about Christ...



i gave you my "lip service" yet you didnt address.......


i guess i played your little game in vain then.

 

[mog144]

the sabbath covenant is not what its all about



Its all about Christ...



i gave you my "lip service" yet you didnt address.......


i guess i played your little game in vain then.

Thank you for a second bath of your lip service. It's obvious that you miss the point, rather purposely! LOL You're a thorn and I know how to handle thorns. Keep in mind, your posts are also being recorded by Him.

First off, it IS all about the Covenant because without THAT 7th day Sabbath Covenant that you blatantly blaspheme GOD cannot save a single soul. He Himself must be Binding in His Own Laws... Think about it!!!

Stop trying to twist Scripture, silence is a virtue, exercise it.

 

[bugkiller]

Your understanding of the 10 Commandments is illogical and dead wrong.
The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God, while the other 603 laws were written by Moses on paper, they were transitory in nature. You need to rightly divide the word of truth, before you spout off. Why do you think that God wrote the 10 Commandments in stone with his own finger, by passing Moses? Because God wanted to make a statement they were to be laws of an enduring nature. Yet, you and so many others want to change and do away with something God inspired and wrote in stone! How arrogant and presumptious is that?!

When Jesus was asked what is the greatest commandment, He did not quote from the stone tablets. Instead Jesus quoted from the law of Moses and thereby said it was greater than the stone tablets according to your position. very interesting indeed.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It's more of a reading into the text somethng isn't there problem then a different bible problem.

Exactly what I thought you were doing. Thank you.

bugkiller

 

[squint]

When Jesus was asked what is the greatest commandment, He did not quote from the stone tablets. Instead Jesus quoted from the law of Moses and thereby said it was greater than the stone tablets according to your position. very interesting indeed.

bugkiller

There is undoubtedly LOVE written of 'in the Law,' but it is a spiritual insertion into the heart.

1 Thessalonians 4:9
But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

No amount of writing on stone can produce this life, His Life, His Gift within.

It is 'freely' given. As much as we can carry and dispense.

s

 

[bugkiller]

It's obvious that this group seems to miss the whole point as to why any Christian would want to keep the commandments of God in every respect, including the Sabbath day.

First off, any violation or transgression against the Almighty will bring curses and wrath down upon the people. Living in and with sin doesn't mean that our punishment will be held back until or after Judgment day. We know that this earth is cursed, He told us this in Genesis.

Keeping the Sabbath will never save any soul, nor keeping any of the law to the letter. We are to keep the Spirit of the Law but He has an Order as well. What happened to the "Order" in "Law and Order"? People get confused over simple wording and phrasing as in how the Bible defines "Law". When the Bible speaks of Law it also includes the Authoritative figure who commands that law, therefore we know that there must be an Authoritative Order to the Law of God and that is God, Himself. This said, who are we to negotiate any of God's law? How dare us, we little things tell the Creator another order concerning the works of His Hands [Isa 45:11].

The Sabbath Covenant is what It's all about, dear friends. Breaking the Sabbath also breaks the Holy Covenant that was instituted in Creation so to give to His people for all generations of those obedient children who honor it in spirit as well. They used to burn witches for violations against the Church. It is better to destroy one enemy than to risk losing the entire Flock. The yeast would contaminate the loaf of dough; you know the parables, right? Well, this is what those parables mean, in case you haven't given them any consideration or thought.

The plan of Salvation does include keeping the Sabbath Holy and making other choices is your own decision. We are told not to deceive ourselves with heresies against the Truth, yet the entire world has accepted all of the things that Jesus rejected while 40 days in the wilderness. He was sustained in the Spirit during that time and the natural elements were secondary, or maybe completely absent from Jesus, so to not rely on any natural substance for enduring the space of time without any natural food and water.

Jesus hungered after the 40 days were finished, He then hungered naturally when He came down from an elevated experience in Glory with the Father in Heaven. Satan was tempting Him in thought just as he does us. If I was up there and in the Spirit, satan would try to cause me to stumble and thirst for natural waters.

The Covenant is a contract, a simple but Mighty one, if we obey Him and call Him our God, He will lift us up on High in Spirit even while in the flesh. This is where we must differentiate between flesh and spirit, we cannot please God by merely keeping the law or a specific day of the week but we must keep every detail as to what the Law dictates. Law assigns permissions and restrictions, so stop looking at it as all restrictions. I'd rather be bound to Ten laws than thousands of mans.

The choice is your's. Choose wisely!

So why do you deny the New Covenant? Jesus said very clrarly that it is the current covenant. Jeremiah said the New Covenant was not like the old one.

You just as well tell the truth and change your faith icon to SDA. In refusing to use an icon of what you represnt is a lie that says the SDA is not a Christian orgainzation. Since you will not represent the truth about that why would we consider you representing the truth about something else?

bugkiller