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Verses That Disprove SDA Sabbath

IOWLBNIF

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Easier said than done, prove me wrong then... your lip service is cheap and can be found anywhere.



ummm ok


Explain these verses then from the bible with your understanding of what is being said.............not what you want it to say

in your own words, with no commentary


Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”


But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.


Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them


and please explain the fact on why


Joshua didnt break the sabbath when he walked around Jericho on the Sabbath?




explain all this, in your own words



hows that lip service? ^_^
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You are right that keeping Sabbath is not a requirement. That was the Law and we are not under the Law. However, the Sabbath is still Saturday as Monday is still Monday. It didn't get pushed over to Sunday. Sunday is the Lord's Day and you are very welcome to break bread on that day -- or any other day. !
The Jews of today do not recognize the Christian observance of Sunday as the Lord's day ;)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7537625/
The Lord's Day


......
 
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1234321

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Why is following OT law such a burden? I am not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Personally, I have found incredible benefit from following things like Sabbaths, food laws, and even wardrobe/materials law. I know it is impossible for me to completely follow it, and I don't believe it will bring me salvation (so please don't say I am Judaizing...)

I guess a better question would be that, if we are expected to follow all laws of God (OT, NT, your heart in union with Holy Spirit, etc.,) would that be a problem or burden?
 
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IOWLBNIF

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Why is following OT law such a burden? I am not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Personally, I have found incredible benefit from following things like Sabbaths, food laws, and even wardrobe/materials law. I know it is impossible for me to completely follow it, and I don't believe it will bring me salvation (so please don't say I am Judaizing...)

I guess a better question would be that, if we are expected to follow all laws of God (OT, NT, your heart in union with Holy Spirit, etc.,) would that be a problem or burden?



why follow something that Christ fulfilled?

can you follow it better than him?




For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

^in your response to knowing you cant completely keep it





For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
















keep sabbaths, keep feasts........if that is what you want to do


but dont command someone else to keep it, if the Scriptures say different on certain things like that

(not you personally, im just talking generally)
 
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TruthWave7

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Why is following OT law such a burden? I am not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Personally, I have found incredible benefit from following things like Sabbaths, food laws, and even wardrobe/materials law. I know it is impossible for me to completely follow it, and I don't believe it will bring me salvation (so please don't say I am Judaizing...)

I guess a better question would be that, if we are expected to follow all laws of God (OT, NT, your heart in union with Holy Spirit, etc.,) would that be a problem or burden?

You make a very good point. All of God's laws were made for mankind's benefit. The man made laws that the Pharisees created were burdensome and brought no blessings. While, God's Laws were holy and inspired by our loving Creator.
 
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TruthWave7

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why follow something that Christ fulfilled?

can you follow it better than him?


For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Jesus kept the Law of God perfectly, that is the example that He left us. Jesus did not leave us an example of disobedience. Therefore, we should be keeping the Law of God. Pagans and sinners transgress the law of God continually because they are not born again, therefore what excuse can we who know the Scriptures give as an excuse for not obeying what is so simple to understand, namely, the 10 Commandments.
 
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IOWLBNIF

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Jesus kept the Law of God perfectly, that is the example that He left us. Jesus did not leave us an example of disobedience. Therefore, we should be keeping the Law of God. Pagans and sinners transgress the law of God continually because they are not born again, therefore what excuse can we who know the Scriptures give as an excuse for not obeying what is so simple to understand, namely, the 10 Commandments.



then please explain the other verses i posted in my previous posts



funny 2 corin 3 is in direct contradiction of your understanding and the "10 commandments"



If something is fulfilled it doenst mean that we follow what is fulfilled....

Christ magnified the law...........He didnt just keep the 10 commandments....



but please answer 2 corin 3
 
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1234321

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why follow something that Christ fulfilled?

can you follow it better than him?




For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

^in your response to knowing you cant completely keep it





For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
















keep sabbaths, keep feasts........if that is what you want to do


but dont command someone else to keep it, if the Scriptures say different on certain things like that

(not you personally, im just talking generally)

But, I don't think Christ fulfilling the law means that the law is no longer applicable and expected of us, especially when God told us to do these specific things, and He doesn't change (so by implication, our expectation of obedience to his laws have not changed.)

You are right that those that rely on the works of the law are under a curse: it is called human sin. We cannot follow the law to the letter 100% perfection, but we are expected to be obedient. Therefore, we have a Savior that proved that the law could be followed by a Human, and that God's law is not some impossible, illogical decree, and it is good for enrichment and thanksgiving. Since one human did it, God knows that it isn't out of the question to expect us to be obedient to His laws.

Now, the frequency of obedience is dependent upon the person's spiritual level, and relationship with God. Some people can obey it to 0.01% perfection, others like Enoch, Elijah and Job can obey it maybe to 70% perfection. Either way, both cannot use their law-following abilities to vindicate their life/salvation because both cases fall short, and therefore need Christ. They need to have faith that His sacrifice and perfection was enough to earn us salvation and grace from God. But, faith in Christ still requires consequential works, which include obedience. This is because the whole idea of repentance means you transgressed the law of God, and you are remorseful of that action, with a hope to change your ways. Repentance was a concept before Christ became human, and it meant the same thing then as it does now. If you (1) believe the laws of God previously established (and, then written) are necessary to follow, or (2) are unaware of His law, how do you know when you are sinning?

I don't think that Enoch, Elijah and Job would say "since Christ proved it was possible, we don't have to do anything...let's just do what is in our hearts." Your heart is not perfect which is why you have to be transformed into a new creation through Christ (which takes a lifetime.) Christ's heart is, however, perfect. So, to align your heart with His would be to strive to do everything He did, which includes obedience to the written law. And, it is only written to emphasize it to us. Adam and Eve, and the children up to Moses knew in their hearts what was good to eat, how to treat people, to give sacrifices, etc. It was only when they fell away that God inspired written law. But, it is the same law that He originally wrote on the heart of the antediluvians.

I guess the point is it isn't about relying on the law to bring you salvation, or anything. It is about wanting to be obedient to everything He tells us to do, even if we justifiably do not have to.
 
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1234321

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BTW, the Greek word for fulfill is pleroo, which means "to satisfy, accomplish, verify, fully preach, perfect, or complete." It doesn't mean "to nullify, or void." So, when it is said Christ fulfilled the law, it means "He satisfied, accomplished, verified, fully preached, perfected, and/or completed the law."
 
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IOWLBNIF

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But, I don't think Christ fulfilling the law means that the law is no longer applicable and expected of us, especially when God told us to do these specific things, and He doesn't change (so by implication, our expectation of obedience to his laws have not changed.)

You are right that those that rely on the works of the law are under a curse: it is called human sin. We cannot follow the law to the letter 100% perfection, but we are expected to be obedient. Therefore, we have a Savior that proved that the law could be followed by a Human, and that God's law is not some impossible, illogical decree, and it is good for enrichment and thanksgiving. Since one human did it, God knows that it isn't out of the question to expect us to be obedient to His laws.

Now, the frequency of obedience is dependent upon the person's spiritual level, and relationship with God. Some people can obey it to 0.01% perfection, others like Enoch, Elijah and Job can obey it maybe to 70% perfection. Either way, both cannot use their law-following abilities to vindicate their life/salvation because both cases fall short, and therefore need Christ. They need to have faith that His sacrifice and perfection was enough to earn us salvation and grace from God. But, faith in Christ still requires consequential works, which include obedience. This is because the whole idea of repentance means you transgressed the law of God, and you are remorseful of that action, with a hope to change your ways. Repentance was a concept before Christ became human, and it meant the same thing then as it does now. If you (1) believe the laws of God previously established (and, then written) are necessary to follow, or (2) are unaware of His law, how do you know when you are sinning?

I don't think that Enoch, Elijah and Job would say "since Christ proved it was possible, we don't have to do anything...let's just do what is in our hearts." Your heart is not perfect which is why you have to be transformed into a new creation through Christ (which takes a lifetime.) Christ's heart is, however, perfect. So, to align your heart with His would be to strive to do everything He did, which includes obedience to the written law. And, it is only written to emphasize it to us. Adam and Eve, and the children up to Moses knew in their hearts what was good to eat, how to treat people, to give sacrifices, etc. It was only when they fell away that God inspired written law. But, it is the same law that He originally wrote on the heart of the antediluvians.

I guess the point is it isn't about relying on the law to bring you salvation, or anything. It is about wanting to be obedient to everything He tells us to do, even if we justifiably do not have to.



i say this as best as i can.....



i dont really care what you think about all of that.....



what does the Scriptures say?


Explain 2 Corin 3, according to what it is saying.



We follow the Law of the Spirit not something written on tablets of stone....



Explain to me how Joshua didnt sin even though he broke the Sabbath?
 
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1234321

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Explain to me how Joshua didnt sin even though he broke the Sabbath?


I am assuming you meant he broke the sabbath when he commanded the people of Israel to go around the walls of Jericho seven times on the seventh day, and blow the ram's horn.

Christ addresses this when he says "The sabbath was man for man, and not man the sabbath." The sabbath is not a binding contract that the Pharisees made it out to be, in which you are essentially enslaved to rules of man. The sabbath was given to the Israelites particularly to prevent them from being slaves to servile work of men everyday. In other words, labor. It does not mean you go hungry because it is the sabbath (by not doing the "work" of gathering grain to eat, or picking ears of corn.) It does not mean when your enemies are waring with you you refrain from your obligations of defending yourself, or offending your aggressor. The purpose of the sabbath was not to be vulnerable to the world, it was to make you strong in relationship with God. Joshua didn't break the sabbath, especially in the way it was intended, by commanding the Israelites what was already commanded by God.

If you meant Joshua broke the sabbath some other way, please let me know.
 
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1234321

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Explain 2 Corin 3, according to what it is saying.



We follow the Law of the Spirit not something written on tablets of stone....

2 Cor 3 is indeed illustrating the futility of following laws written with ink, or stone simply because it is written. It is illustrating the law is written in your heart, through spirit. Likewise, the church of Corinth has this law written on their hearts by hearing it from the disciples, who heard it from Christ. It is in this way (from Christ, to believer,) that the law of God is made manifest on the hearts of men. Moreover, just because something is written does not mean it is to be extolled over the law/word of God spoken through the avenue of the spirit (ministering.)

But, the fact is that save the 10 commandments, which were written with the finger of God, all of God's law was given to men through the Spirit - ministered to men by prophets and priests that were spoken to by the Spirit of God. Men just wrote it [because it was most likely believed necessary for remembrance.] But, once the law is ministered through the spirit, the believer has it written on his/her heart. 2 Cor 3 is not saying the law of God is not applicable, it is saying that you don't need to stress over written Word if you receive the Word/Law of God through Spirit (through whichever avenue the Spirit gives it.)
 
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IOWLBNIF

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I am assuming you meant he broke the sabbath when he commanded the people of Israel to go around the walls of Jericho seven times on the seventh day, and blow the ram's horn.

Christ addresses this when he says "The sabbath was man for man, and not man the sabbath." The sabbath is not a binding contract that the Pharisees made it out to be, in which you are essentially enslaved to rules of man. The sabbath was given to the Israelites particularly to prevent them from being slaves to servile work of men everyday. In other words, labor. It does not mean you go hungry because it is the sabbath (by not doing the "work" of gathering grain to eat, or picking ears of corn.) It does not mean when your enemies are waring with you you refrain from your obligations of defending yourself, or offending your aggressor. The purpose of the sabbath was not to be vulnerable to the world, it was to make you strong in relationship with God. Joshua didn't break the sabbath, especially in the way it was intended, by commanding the Israelites what was already commanded by God.

If you meant Joshua broke the sabbath some other way, please let me know.

actually your wrong, to even pick up sticks on the sabbath would get you stoned....

It happens in the Bible.........

So, yes Joshua broke the sabbath

now explain why he didnt get stoned.

You didnt explain it, you went off on something talking about "well if your hungry etc"

No, people did their day of prep to not be hungry

there is an account in the bible where someone gets stoned for pickin up sticks, and its ok to stone them

now please explain

2 Cor 3 is indeed illustrating the futility of following laws written with ink, or stone simply because it is written. It is illustrating the law is written in your heart, through spirit. Likewise, the church of Corinth has this law written on their hearts by hearing it from the disciples, who heard it from Christ. It is in this way (from Christ, to believer,) that the law of God is made manifest on the hearts of men. Moreover, just because something is written does not mean it is to be extolled over the law/word of God spoken through the avenue of the spirit (ministering.)

But, the fact is that save the 10 commandments, which were written with the finger of God, all of God's law was given to men through the Spirit - ministered to men by prophets and priests that were spoken to by the Spirit of God. Men just wrote it [because it was most likely believed necessary for remembrance.] But, once the law is ministered through the spirit, the believer has it written on his/her heart. 2 Cor 3 is not saying the law of God is not applicable, it is saying that you don't need to stress over written Word if you receive the Word/Law of God through Spirit (through whichever avenue the Spirit gives it.)


that is not what that means.....that is not what the Scripture is saying, that is what you think it saying


In no shape did the 10 commandments "be put in our heart".......show me where it says that...

The letter killeth the Spirit give live.



I followed the magnified Law of Christ........this is the law that is put in our hearts.....


Christ said follow my commands.......meaning whatever he said while on earth we follow.

Not laws that were written on tablets of stone that bring death...

please explain
 
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TruthWave7

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then please explain the other verses i posted in my previous posts

funny 2 corin 3 is in direct contradiction of your understanding and the "10 commandments"

If something is fulfilled it doenst mean that we follow what is fulfilled....

Christ magnified the law...........He didnt just keep the 10 commandments....

but please answer 2 corin 3

Paul's writings have been misinterpreted time and time again in such a fashion to make it appear that the Law of God was done away with at the cross. That type of spin on the Scriptures gives license to those who would like to continue in sin and go on breaking the law the of God. Jesus didn't die on the cross to allow you and me to continue in sin! He died to free us from the sin, but if continue sinning by knowingly breaking the law, how then can we blame God in the Day of Judgment, when God says "Depart from you workers of iniquity?"
 
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IOWLBNIF

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Paul's writings have been misinterpreted time and time again in such a fashion to make it appear that the Law of God was done away with at the cross. That type of spin on the Scriptures gives license to those who would like to continue in sin and go on breaking the law the of God. Jesus didn't die on the cross to allow you and me to continue in sin! It died to free us from the sin, but if continue sinning by knowingly breaking the law, how then can we blame God in the Day of Judgment, when God says "Depart from you workers of iniquity?"



who says that because i dont follow the law written on tablets of stone that kill

that im willfully sinning?



But if i walk in the Spirit, then im not subjective to any law, for what law is there against the Spirit?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.



again, i followed the magnified law.......the one Christ talked about.....

Christ said keep my commandments.......not keep the commandments


explain please
 
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IOWLBNIF

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This thread seems to be getting side tracked as most threads do. The original post was discussing a text that disproved the sabbath. There are no texts in the New Testament that proves the sanctity of the sabbath was moved to sunday. That was accomplished purely through traditions over a course of years after the apostles had all died. A close study of all the texts commonly used to prove it was will prove to be lifted out of context and read into the text.
The Catholic Church readily admits it was changed through tradition and claim authority to do so. The Protestant Churches that worship on sunday find themselves in the dilemma of trying to prove it through scripture which, as the Catholic church rightly states, there is no authorization for it in all of scripture.




who says the sabbath has changed to sunday from saturday, they are wrong as well lol



observance of "sabbath" however..........is not mandatory



if you think worshiping one one day matters then your 6 day sinners and 7 day hypocrites.....


i can worship on any day i want, not just one specific day...........If i worship on tuesday......you dare condemn me?
 
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bugkiller

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2 Cor 3 is indeed illustrating the futility of following laws written with ink, or stone simply because it is written. It is illustrating the law is written in your heart, through spirit. Likewise, the church of Corinth has this law written on their hearts by hearing it from the disciples, who heard it from Christ. It is in this way (from Christ, to believer,) that the law of God is made manifest on the hearts of men. Moreover, just because something is written does not mean it is to be extolled over the law/word of God spoken through the avenue of the spirit (ministering.)

But, the fact is that save the 10 commandments, which were written with the finger of God, all of God's law was given to men through the Spirit - ministered to men by prophets and priests that were spoken to by the Spirit of God. Men just wrote it [because it was most likely believed necessary for remembrance.] But, once the law is ministered through the spirit, the believer has it written on his/her heart. 2 Cor 3 is not saying the law of God is not applicable, it is saying that you don't need to stress over written Word if you receive the Word/Law of God through Spirit (through whichever avenue the Spirit gives it.)
I have only read 2 of your posts and have only 2 things to say to you.

First I am very sorry for you to have been trapped by the SDA doctrines.

And sceond you just as well say your are SDA because promoting their doctrines and refusing to identify as as one is saying they are not a Christian religious organization. You fool no one but your self.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Paul's writings have been misinterpreted time and time again in such a fashion to make it appear that the Law of God was done away with at the cross. That type of spin on the Scriptures gives license to those who would like to continue in sin and go on breaking the law the of God. Jesus didn't die on the cross to allow you and me to continue in sin! It died to free us from the sin, but if continue sinning by knowingly breaking the law, how then can we blame God in the Day of Judgment, when God says "Depart from you workers of iniquity?"
Look who is talking. You do not observe the ten commandments as written on the stone tablets recorded in Exodus 20. You do observe a truncated version to justify and fool yourself.

bugkiller
 
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