Verses That Disprove SDA Sabbath

LittleLambofJesus

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So the Scripture plainly shows that Christians met on Sunday for worship as early as 55 AD. There are a few historians that show this as as early a 100 AD as well. It is common knowledge that by 135 AD there was no Jewish leadership left in the church. There were still Jewish Christians?
There probably weren't that many, if any, of the leadership left after their Temple was razed to the ground in AD 70 ;)

Revelation 14:8 And another messenger did follow, saying "Fall, fall, did Babylon!, the great city,
because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom she hath given to all nations to drink.'

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare.

Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by David Conklin
I judge no one.

For a detailed examination of Col. 2:16-17 see "An In-Depth Look at the Significant Words and Grammatical Structure of Colossians 2:16-17" @ A Study on Col. 2:16-17


There is only one Judge and Lawgiver :thumbsup:

Colossians 2:16 Let no one then judge ye! in eating or in drinking, or in part of feast or of new moon or of sabbaths

Textus Rec.) Colossians 2:16 mh oun tiV umaV krinetw en brwsei h en posei h en merei eorthV h noumhniaV h sabbatwn

Colossians 2:17 which are a shadow of the being about the yet body of the Christ;

Textus Rec.) Colossians 2:17 a estin skia twn mellontwn to de swma tou cristou
 
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mrasell

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Paul is in the Greek town of Troas.


“On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.”
--Acts 20:7 NIV


“[T]he first day of the week ...” This is Sunday, no doubt about it. If you guessed that “break bread” means the Lord's Supper, then scholars back up that opinion. From the notes in my Disciples Study Bible:


“To 'break bread' is almost certainly a reference to the Lord's Supper.”
As support for this view: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.”--Acts 2:42 NIV
Further support: “Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.”--Luke 24:35 NIV




Both Paul and Luke are highly aware of Jewish customs as they “break bread” on Sunday in the Greek town of Troas. The previous verse:


“But we sailed from Philippi after the Festival of Unleavened Bread, and five days later joined the others at Troas, where we stayed seven days.”
--Acts 20:6 NIV



In other words, Paul stayed at one town, Philippi, long enough to complete the Festival of Unleavened Bread, or the Feast of the Passover. Verses 4&5 make it clear that others of his entourage had already moved on but Paul stayed in one place to celebrate Passover.



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"There are two fundamental problems with using this text to support a change to Sunday. Firstly this was a one off meeting because Paul was going to leave the next day (vs. 7). The meeting continued all night and then Paul left at daybreak (vs. 11). Therefore it is unsound to use this text as an example of a common practice. It is also stated in Acts 2:46 that the believers broke bread daily, so breaking bread on the first day of the week would not signify that they considered it to be the Sabbath.
The other major problem with using Acts 20:7 to support Sunday observance is that the first day of the week by Jewish reckoning begins at sunset on Saturday. Therefore the picture that we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the believers, and continuing the meeting into the evening (the first day of the week) when they broke bread. At some point Eutychus fell asleep, fell out of the window and died, and was then restored to life (vss. 9-12). On Sunday morning when the meeting was finished, Paul carried on with his journey, showing he did not regard Sunday as a day of rest! This understanding of the first day of the week being Saturday night is reflected in some translations, most notably the New English Bible."
(taken from my book, "the mark of the beast and the seal of God")

Marc Rasell
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Dale
Paul is in the Greek town of Troas.


“On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.”
--Acts 20:7 NIV

Neither "day" nor "week" is in the greek of that verse.

Should read "in yet the one of the sabbaths....." :angel:

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

NASB) Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Young) Acts 20:7 And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Acts 20:7 en de th mia twn sabbatwn sunhgmenwn twn maqhtwn tou klasai arton o pauloV dielegeto autoiV mellwn exienai th epaurion pareteinen te ton logon mecri mesonuktiou

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Acts 20:7 en de th mia twn sabbatwn sunhgmenwn twn maqhtwn tou klasai arton o pauloV dielegeto autoiV mellwn exienai th epaurion pareteinen te ton logon mecri mesonuktiou
 
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Neither "day" nor "week" is in the greek of that verse.
...
The Greek for the relevant words is ᾿Εν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων Which transliterates to en de to mia ton sabbaton. This fragment of a sentence translates to ᾿Εν (In) δὲ (but/and) τῇ (the) μιᾷ (first/one) τῶν (of the) σαββάτων (sabbath) συνηγμένων (led together) which is usually translated as On the first day of the week when we gathered. The reason why the usual translation adds day is that "first" is the name of a day in the Jewish week, and the reason why sabbath is changed to week is that it is a common use in the new testament to refer to the whole seven day week by the name of the last day of the week. My bible has a note which says,
The first day of the week: the day after the sabbath and the first day of the Jewish week, apparently chosen originally by the Jerusalem community for the celebration of the liturgy of the Eucharist in order to relate it to the resurrection of Christ.​
Another bible says,
first day of the week. Sunday, the day the church gathered for worship, because it was the day of Christ’s resurrection. Cf. Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; 1 Cor. 16:2. The writings of the early church Fathers confirm that the church continued to meet on Sunday after the close of the NT period. Scripture does not require Christians to observe the Saturday Sabbath: 1) the Sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic Covenant (Ex. 31:16, 17; Neh. 9:14; Ezek. 20:12), whereas Christians are under the New Covenant (2 Cor. 3; Heb. 8); 2) there is no NT command to keep the Sabbath; 3) the first command to keep the Sabbath was not until the time of Moses (Ex. 20:8); 4) the Jerusalem Council (chap. 15) did not order Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath; 5) Paul never cautioned Christians about breaking the Sabbath; and 6) the NT explicitly teaches that Sabbath keeping was not a requirement (see notes on Rom. 14:5; Gal. 4:10, 11; Col. 2:16, 17). to break bread. The common meal associated with the communion service (1 Cor. 11:20–22). -- The MacArthur Study Bible. 1997 (J. MacArthur, Jr., Ed.) (electronic ed.) (Ac 20:7). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.​
And a commentary says,
The first day of the week was Sunday. The people gathered to worship on this day for the same reason we do today, to celebrate the day of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Jewish believers continued to worship on the Sabbath, which is Saturday. The Book of Hebrews tells us that Christ and His finished work is our Sabbath, our rest (Heb. 4:8–10). to break bread: The primary purpose of the gathering was the Lord’s Supper. -- Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1999). Nelson’s new illustrated Bible commentary (Ac 20:7). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.​
It looks like scholarly opinion is conclusively in favour of translating the expression at the beginning of the verse as a reference to the first day of the week, Sunday.
 
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mrasell

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It looks like scholarly opinion is conclusively in favour of translating the expression at the beginning of the verse as a reference to the first day of the week, Sunday.

Sabbaton is used both for Sabbath and week in the NT, in this case the context shows it means week.

Scholarly opinion is divided on whether Paul was referring to Saturday evening or Sunday.

It is a common practice among Jews to meet at sunset on Saturday for a meal - breaking of bread. Known as havdalah.

So what Paul was doing was taking a traditional Jewish service, but preaching about Jesus instead.

Marc
 
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mrasell

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It looks like scholarly opinion is conclusively in favour of translating the expression at the beginning of the verse as a reference to the first day of the week, Sunday.

But by Jewish reckoning the first day of the week begins on Saturday at sunset, as a Jewish day begins at sunset.

Marc
 
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Sabbaton is used both for Sabbath and week in the NT, in this case the context shows it means week.

Scholarly opinion is divided on whether Paul was referring to Saturday evening or Sunday.
Does it matter? Catholics celebrate Sunday mass starting on Saturday evening. I do not know what Protestants do, probably it depends on their denomination.
It is a common practice among Jews to meet at sunset on Saturday for a meal - breaking of bread. Known as havdalah.
That sounds like a lovely practise.
So what Paul was doing was taking a traditional Jewish service, but preaching about Jesus instead.

Marc
Clearly Paul and his congregation met together apart from the Jews when they came to break bread. And, since they would be doing this on the first day of the Jewish week they obviously were not trying to Sabbath keep.
 
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mrasell

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Does it matter? Catholics celebrate Sunday mass starting on Saturday evening. I do not know what Protestants do, probably it depends on their denomination.
That sounds like a lovely practise.
Clearly Paul and his congregation met together apart from the Jews when they came to break bread. And, since they would be doing this on the first day of the Jewish week they obviously were not trying to Sabbath keep.

I think it is important to keep the Sabbath on the day God sanctified. Just as it is important to keep all the 10 Commandments, and worship God as He directed.

The picture we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the Christians, carrying on after sunset (1st day of the week), the meeting carried on all night because he was going to leave the next day, and then continuing his journey on Sunday, which shows he did not consider Sunday as a day of rest.

Marc
 
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I think it is important to keep the Sabbath on the day God sanctified. Just as it is important to keep all the 10 Commandments, and worship God as He directed.

The picture we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the Christians, carrying on after sunset (1st day of the week), the meeting carried on all night because he was going to leave the next day, and then continuing his journey on Sunday, which shows he did not consider Sunday as a day of rest.

Marc
It is okay by me if you want to keep Saturdays. Do you think everybody else needs to?

The picture one gets is that Paul would take every opportunity he had to preach to the Jews and that included preaching in their synagogues while they met on Saturday. When that was all done, he and his brothers and sisters in the Christian faith would gather to worship God and to break the bread of the Holy Eucharist.

Christians continue to gather on the first day of the week, worship God, and break the bread of the Holy Eucharist.
 
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I think it is important to keep the Sabbath on the day God sanctified. Just as it is important to keep all the 10 Commandments, and worship God as He directed.

The picture we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the Christians, carrying on after sunset (1st day of the week), the meeting carried on all night because he was going to leave the next day, and then continuing his journey on Sunday, which shows he did not consider Sunday as a day of rest.

Marc

The clear fact is; Paul did teach about days to honor God.
Rom 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
 
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JohnRabbit

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i had this in another thread, but of course no one would answer, so i moved it here.

will someone explain this?:



Acts 13:42(NKJV)
42So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

it's real simple.

notice that the jews had left the synagogue (so we can't blame anything on the jews).

so, there was paul and the gentiles, and the gentiles asked that paul preach to them the next sabbath.

now, if the sabbath was changed, abolished, fulfilled, whatever, then why didn't paul say anything like that to the gentiles, or any of the things that you guys are sayin in this thread.



the gentiles could have requested any other day to be preached to (you know like the first day of the week for the "breaking bread" thingy), could they not?

here was a real teachable moment to the gentiles, however, we see nothing of the like.

but what we do see is this:


Acts 13:44(NKJV)
44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

we see them meeting on the next sabbath!

what about it?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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the gentiles could have requested any other day to be preached to (you know like the first day of the week for the "breaking bread" thingy), could they not?
Yep. I was surprised the gentiles didn't ask "what the heck is a sabbath?!"
hello?

is this "mic" on?

anyone want to take a crack at post #232?
Sorry. I sometimes forget to put my hearing aids on when coming to GT. Got 'em on now :thumbsup:

Acts 28:25 And not being agreed with one another, they were going away, Paul having spoken one word--"Well did the Holy Spirit speak through Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers,
26 saying", 'go on unto this people and say, 'with hearing ye shall hear and ye shall not understand,
and seeing ye shall see and ye shall not perceive,
27 for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close,
lest they may see with the eyes, and with the heart may understand, and be turned back, and I may heal them'.
28 "Be it known therefore to ye!, that to the Nations was sent the salvation of God, these also will hear it;'

New advanced hearing aid for Gentiles:

hearing_aid.jpg
 
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The gentiles outside of the Synagogue when Paul came out were very likely "godly gentiles" who already were used to gathering with the Jews on Sabbath at the synagogue to hear the Law. But being gentiles they might not have wanted to get circumcised so were not full converts to Judaism. Paul was, of course, preaching Christ and not circumcision and that would have peaked their interest.
 
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Dale

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"There are two fundamental problems with using this text to support a change to Sunday. Firstly this was a one off meeting because Paul was going to leave the next day (vs. 7). The meeting continued all night and then Paul left at daybreak (vs. 11). Therefore it is unsound to use this text as an example of a common practice. It is also stated in Acts 2:46 that the believers broke bread daily, so breaking bread on the first day of the week would not signify that they considered it to be the Sabbath.
The other major problem with using Acts 20:7 to support Sunday observance is that the first day of the week by Jewish reckoning begins at sunset on Saturday. Therefore the picture that we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the believers, and continuing the meeting into the evening (the first day of the week) when they broke bread. At some point Eutychus fell asleep, fell out of the window and died, and was then restored to life (vss. 9-12). On Sunday morning when the meeting was finished, Paul carried on with his journey, showing he did not regard Sunday as a day of rest! This understanding of the first day of the week being Saturday night is reflected in some translations, most notably the New English Bible."
(taken from my book, "the mark of the beast and the seal of God")

Marc Rasell



As others have pointed out, there is nothing in the New Testament that points to a continued allegiance to a Jewish Sabbath.

You are overlooking the fact that Paul traveled on the Jewish Sabbath, breaking one of the most important Sabbath laws, apparently deliberately. Then, after sundown, it was Sunday on the Jewish calendar. Only then did Paul break bread with the Christians in Troas.

Likewise, you overlook the second question. After we get past the question of why these things happened, there is the question of why Luke thought the day of the week was worth mentioning. He could easily have skipped it. The answer is that Luke wanted everyone to know that Christians no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath but instead were observing Sunday as the normal day to hold communion, the normal day of worship.

As far as Sunday being a day of rest, I have repeatedly pointed out that the Old Testament Sabbath is obviously labor legislation. It is intended to give everyone a day off, including women, servants, slaves and even animals. The command was given before there were any synagogues to attend. One of the strange things about the SDA is that despite their obsession with the Sabbath, they deny its original purpose!


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Dale

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I think it is important to keep the Sabbath on the day God sanctified. Just as it is important to keep all the 10 Commandments, and worship God as He directed.

The picture we get is of Paul celebrating the Sabbath with the Christians, carrying on after sunset (1st day of the week), the meeting carried on all night because he was going to leave the next day, and then continuing his journey on Sunday, which shows he did not consider Sunday as a day of rest.

Marc


On keeping all the Commandments, SDA prophet Ellen White put Sabbath-keeping above all the other Commandments. This comes from her visions and she made no attempt to justify it in any other way.

She made no attempt to explain why the most important Commandment would be fourth. She said that it was the Fourth Commandment, as it is in the King James Bible. She was apparently unaware that Catholics number the Commandments differently.

It is particularly hard to understand how Sabbath-keeping could be more important than "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How could keeping a Sabbath be more important than the prohibition of polytheism and idolatry?



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On keeping all the Commandments, SDA prophet Ellen White put Sabbath-keeping above all the other Commandments. This comes from her visions and she made no attempt to justify it in any other way.

She made no attempt to explain why the most important Commandment would be fourth. She said that it was the Fourth Commandment, as it is in the King James Bible. She was apparently unaware that Catholics number the Commandments differently.

It is particularly hard to understand how Sabbath-keeping could be more important than "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How could keeping a Sabbath be more important than the prohibition of polytheism and idolatry?
If I recall correctly, Mrs. Ellen G. White saw the ten commandments in a vision with the fourth commandment ringed in light. I think that is where the emphasis in current SDA teaching has at least one of its roots. Historically I think that the SDAs had roots in Seventh Day Baptists as well as in the movement of William Miller, a comment from an SDA elder of those times says this,
"By their fruits ye shall know them." Millerism, for about four years, in a few states, created a great excitement. Churches were divided and broken up, pastors left their flocks to "lecture" on "time," while argument and strife were the order of the day. As the time set drew near, in thousands of cases, the Adventists not only left their work and their business, but gave away their property. Crops were left ungathered, goods were distributed freely, so that many who had been well to do were left penniless. After the time had passed, these were destitute and their families suffered. Many had to be arrested and put under guardianship, to protect their families. Then the wildest fanaticism broke out here and there, which brought disgrace upon the very name of religion. Many said the Lord had come, probation was ended, it was sin to work, all property must be held in common, all the churches were apostate, Babylon, etc. Some Adventists had spiritual wives, some went to the Shakers, many went back into the churches, some into despair, and hundreds into doubt and infidelity - just what might have been expected. The glorious doctrine of the Second Advent was covered with shame, Satan rejoiced, while the cause of Christ was greatly injured. For proof of these facts, I refer to the testimony of thousands now living, and to the published works of the Adventists themselves. Thus Elder U. Smith is compelled to say: "The Advent Body were a unit [in 1844] and their testimony shook the world. Suddenly their power was broken, their strength paralyzed. They passed the point of their expectation, and realized not their hope. That a mistake had been made somewhere, none could deny. From that point the history of a majority of that once happy, united people has been marked by discord, division, confusion, speculation, new mistakes, fresh disappointments, disintegration and apostasy." The Sanctuary , pages 13, 14.

Paul said, "God is not the author of confusion." I Cor. 14:33. Then surely he was not the author of Adventism, for the confusion it produced is unparalleled in religious history. Ten souls were ruined by it where one was saved. Immediately after 1844 they split up into numerous parties, each contradicting and condemning all the rest. Instead of renouncing the whole thing, as sane men ought to have done, each one set himself to find some "explanation" of their mistake. Hardly any two agreed, while each one was sure he had the true explanation. Their utter confusion is well illustrated by the following anecdote told by Mr. Miller himself: The first person in his own parish who fully embraced his views was an old woman, an humble Christian. Mr. Miller sent her his papers when he had read them. One week he received sixteen different sheets, all purporting to be Advent publications, but the most of them advocating contradictory sentiments. He sent them to the old woman. Soon she sent for him, and on his arrival began: "Have you read all these papers?" "I have looked them over." "But are they all Advent papers?" "They profess to be." "Well, then," said she, "I am no longer an Adventist. I shall take the old Bible and stick to that." "But," said Mr. Miller, "we have no confidence in one-half there is advocated in these papers." "We?" exclaimed the old lady, "who is WE?" "Why," replied Mr. Miller, "WE are those who do not fellowship these things." "Well, but I want to know who WE is." "Why, all of us who stand on the old ground." "But that ain't telling me who WE is. I want to know who WE is." "Well," said Mr. Miller, in relating the story, "I was confounded, and was unable to give her any information who WE were." History of Second Advent Message,pages 414, 415.

And so it has continued unto this day. What do Adventists believe? Go ask what language was spoken by the people after the Lord confused their tongues at Babel. Adventism is a second Bable[sp]. But Seventh-day Adventists say "We are united; we believe alike." Partly true, but they are only one branch of this Advent Babel. Such a brood of errors and heresies as has resulted from Adventism, cannot be found in the history of the church before. Time- setting, visions, miracles, fanatics, false prophets, sleep of the dead, annihilation of the wicked, non-resurrection of the wicked, future probation, restoration, community of goods, denial of the divinity of Christ, no devil, no baptism, no organization, etc., etc. Gracious! And these are the people sent with a "message" to warn the church! They had better go back and learn and agree on what their "message" is, before they run to deliver it.

The other Adventists have set the time for the end of the world in 1843, 1844, 1847, 1850, 1852, 1854, 1855, 1863, 1866, 1867, 1868, 1877, and so on, till one is sick of counting. Learning nothing from the past, each time they are quite as confident as before.

This fanatical work has brought disgrace upon the doctrine of the Second Advent, so that it is not dwelt upon as much as formerly in other churches. The study of the prophecies has been brought into disrepute by the unwise course of the Adventists. No thoughtful man can fail to see this.
-- Seventh-day Adventism RENOUNCED by D. M. Canright Fourteenth Edition​
My apologies for the lengthy quote.

I don't want anybody to think that Mr Canright's comments are directly applicable to any of our SDA brethren here, I believe more than a century has passed since he wrote his account of the Seventh Day Adventists of his time and things will have changed since then, nevertheless the historical roots of the movement cannot change and his observations, as far as they recount history rather than opinion, are accurate.
 
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