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Vatican: New Sins

Q

Quoth

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New sins? No, they aren't, and that's one reason I distrust the Vatican. They can't implement "new sins," not in God's eyes.

Pollution is a sin and always has been. God put us as stewards over the earth, and while He did command that we use its resources (subduing the earth), He did not give us free license to go buck wild and abuse those resources. As a Christian, I find it hard to justify not contributing to recycle programs, or using mass transportation/carpool to work if it is feasible for one to do so.

Genetic manipulation, if done to better the individual without loss of life or "quality of life" to another, is fine. If they developed a genetic manipulation that would take care of my spina bifida and all they had to do was operate on me, I'd be on that like Britney Spears on a shopping sale at Gucci.

When it comes to scientific experiments, I am for those that help others without costing others their "quality of life." I have varying views on specific ones.
 
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Prod

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New sins? No, they aren't, and that's one reason I distrust the Vatican. They can't implement "new sins," not in God's eyes.

Pollution is a sin and always has been. God put us as stewards over the earth, and while He did command that we use its resources (subduing the earth), He did not give us free license to go buck wild and abuse those resources. As a Christian, I find it hard to justify not contributing to recycle programs, or using mass transportation/carpool to work if it is feasible for one to do so.

Genetic manipulation, if done to better the individual without loss of life or "quality of life" to another, is fine. If they developed a genetic manipulation that would take care of my spina bifida and all they had to do was operate on me, I'd be on that like Britney Spears on a shopping sale at Gucci.

When it comes to scientific experiments, I am for those that help others without costing others their "quality of life." I have varying views on specific ones.
Agreed. Things don't suddenly become sins. They were always sins, we just have discovered new ways to commit them.
 
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E.C.

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That's a Roman Catholic internal affairs issue. Not a non-Roman Catholic issue.

Let them declare what they want as sin since it has no bearing on those outside of Rome and they do so with the best of intentions for their faithful.

But like I said, its not an Orthodox issue or a Protestant issue if the Roman Catholic Church decides that every Tuesday shall one play dodgeball since it only applies to Roman Catholics and not Protestants and Orthodox.

Is the USA affected if the Isle of Man decides that a thief must have his hand cut off? Nope, it isn't.
 
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Snowyyy

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Be it a deadly sin or not, pollution is not a good thing we all know; so I agree with them on this.
On the other things such as genetic manipulations, DNA changes etc, I can't say much without knowing the pros and cons; however if such inventions/discoveries can remove someone's disability, they can be a boon for him.
 
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TwistTim

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from the second article the partial list given....
When asked to list the new areas of sinful behavior, Girotti denounced "certain violations of the fundamental rights of human nature through experiments, genetic manipulations."
He also mentioned drugs, which weaken the mind and obscure intelligence; pollution; as well as the widening social and economic differences between the rich and the poor that "cause an unbearable social injustice."

what are these violations exactly? What kind of Experiments? some Experimental Surgery has saved lives.... and some Gene Therapy could one day prevent death for some.... some who are aborted because they are the ones who's lives would be "too hard to endure" that is sinful to abort a baby.....
drugs... as a sin.... only if you mean the kinds not taken for legitimate medical purposes..... as Morphine has a medical use, but still as a medical drug alters the mind... and even something Sudefad can alter my mind and obscure my intelligence......
pollution... in what way do you mean pollution? because there is noise pollution, and other "Pollutions" that aren't real concerns..... just made up stuff because someone doesn't like it.....

and the Rich getting Richer and the poor getting poorer.... it's something that happens.... especially when the Rich know how to make money and the poor know only how to use and abuse money..... converting everyone to Socialism so we all get the same pay is a really bad idea as we have to get rid of those who disagree with the system.... which means the really rich and the really smart must go... either killed or shipped far away.....

sorry these sins aren't sins.... they are misnomers... some could be sins... if we had more information about what he was talking about.... some are never sins no matter how we look at them......

again.... the R.C.C. is moving further away from Scripture and more towards it's own self.... it's quiet a shame...... and the move away from Scripture is the biggest sin here.....
 
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3DSabbath07

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1. The Vatican cannot make up new sins. (Deuteronomy 4:2 - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.)

2. The Vatican claims to be above the scriptures, have the power to change divine laws and forgive sins......I would advise everyone to stay away from those kinds of blasphemous behaviors.

God Bless.
 
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E.C.

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1. The Vatican cannot make up new sins. (Deuteronomy 4:2 - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.)

2. The Vatican claims to be above the scriptures, have the power to change divine laws and forgive sins......I would advise everyone to stay away from those kinds of blasphemous behaviors.

God Bless.
Question: do you love your neighbor?
 
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QuantaCura

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New sins? No, they aren't, and that's one reason I distrust the Vatican. They can't implement "new sins," not in God's eyes.

They're not. They are applying the timeless principles to new situations. It is man who is finding new ways to commit the same sins (abusing creation, violating human nature, oppressing the poor, etc.). It is the world who is coming up with "new" ways to oppose the order of God, the good prelate is merely pointing it out.
 
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QuantaCura

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1. The Vatican cannot make up new sins. (Deuteronomy 4:2 - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.)
As I said in the previous post, that is not what is being done.

2. The Vatican claims to be above the scriptures, have the power to change divine laws and forgive sins......I would advise everyone to stay away from those kinds of blasphemous behaviors.
None of this is true at all. The only part that is closest to being true is the forgiving of sins part, but that is still by the power of Christ. As He said to the Apostles, whose sins you forgive shall be forgiven, whose sins you retain shall be retained.

The successor of St. Peter is he chief guardian of the word of God--he cannot change it--in fact, the whole idea of the infallibility of the Church as a whole, including the teaching office of the Bishop of Rome, is that the true meaning (not just the letter) will always be proclaimed and confirmed, without change to its original meaning.

It is new sects who only originated in the last couple centuries who invent new dogmas that do not correspond to the beliefs of the early Church. But, of course, when the fundamental dogma of your denomination is that the Catholic Church is some apostate "system" you're apt to justify your existence without actually checking the facts.
 
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E.C.

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I do love my neighbor.....of course
Than why chastise those that fall under the pope's jurisdiction?

That isn't love. That's hypocrisy and malice. The few posts that I've seen from you in here and in the theology forums are just "I believe that Roman Catholics are wrong, because..."

Where is the love in that?

They're not. They are applying the timeless principles to new situations.
Which surprises me why the Protestants even care since...
1) it is a Roman Catholic Church thing, not a Protestant thing.

2) it is a common Protestant practice to take "old ideas" and apply them to "new situations". If anything, the Protestants should be proud.

I couldn't care less since it is the pope who says this and thus applies to the Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics only. None else.
 
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enelya_taralom

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Than why chastise those that fall under the pope's jurisdiction?

That isn't love. That's hypocrisy and malice. The few posts that I've seen from you in here and in the theology forums are just "I believe that Roman Catholics are wrong, because..."

Where is the love in that?


Which surprises me why the Protestants even care since...
1) it is a Roman Catholic Church thing, not a Protestant thing.

2) it is a common Protestant practice to take "old ideas" and apply them to "new situations". If anything, the Protestants should be proud.

I couldn't care less since it is the pope who says this and thus applies to the Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics only. None else.

excellent post! :thumbsup: And I agree here. Regardless of how a secular media source, such as the CNN, chooses to word something, doesn't mean the Vatican is "pulling things out of thin air" and making up something new (because as already mentioned, these sins aren't new and I doubt the Vatican isn't aware of that)... they're just redefining /reapplying old ideas to new situations, as you say. Which, as you also pointed out, is also something every church does in some shape or form.

Just because they move to make something clear / definined for its faithful doesn't mean they're being unbiblical and making stuff up. Besides, is it really that horrible or unbiblical that the Church is reminding its faithful that in light of some of problems and issues we face today, they need to be better stewards of the earth and of human dignity?
 
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enelya_taralom

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Here's a report from a Catholic source (emphasis is mine):

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130

The Forum: Not "new sins" but an old media blind spot
by Phil Lawler
[special to CWNews.com

Mar. 11, 2008 (CWNews.com) - When he finished his interview with L'Osservatore Romano, Archishop Gianfranco Girotti probably thought that his main message had been an appeal to Catholics to use the sacrament of Confession. Little did he know that the English-language news media would play the interview as a newly revised list of sins.

Archbishop Girotti, the regent of the Apostolic Penitentiary, spoke to the Vatican newspaper about "new forms of social sin" in our era. He mentioned such transgressions as destructive research on human embryos, degradation of the environment, and drug trafficking. Within hours, dozens of media sources were suggesting that the Vatican had radically revised the Ten Commandments, issuing a list of "new sins."



As usual, a British newspaper leapt to the forefront with the most sensational and misleading coverage. The Daily Telegraph made the preposterous claim that Archbishop Girotti's list replaced the traditional Catholic understanding of the seven deadly sins:
It replaces the list originally drawn up by Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th Century, which included envy, gluttony, greed, lust, wrath and pride.​
Could we have a reality check, please?

When a second-tier Vatican official gives a newspaper interview, he is not proclaiming new Church doctrines. Archbishop Girotti was obviously trying to offer a new, provocative perspective on some enduring truths. The effort backfired-- but in a very revealing way.

An ordinary reader, basing his opinion only on the inane Telegraph coverage, might conclude that a "sin," in the Catholic understanding, is nothing more than a violation of rules set down by a group of men in Rome. If these rules are entirely arbitrary, then Vatican officials can change them at will; some sins will cease to exist and other "new sins" will replace them. But that notion of sin is ludicrous.

Sin is an objective wrong: a violation of God's law. What is sinful today will be sinful tomorrow, and a deadly sin will remain deadly, whether or not Telegraph editors recognize the moral danger. The traditional list of deadly sins remains intact; nothing has replaced it. Greed, gluttony, and lust are as wrong today as they were a day or a year or a century ago. If Archbishop Girotti referred to "new" sins, it is because some of the offenses he named (such as genetic manipulation) were impossible in the past, and others (such as international drug trafficking) are much more prevalent today, in a global society. Insofar as people could have engaged in these activities a century ago, they would have been sinful then as well.

A sin is not a sin because simply an archbishop proclaims it so. Sin, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us, "is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…" The precepts of "reason, truth, and right conscience" do not shift in response to political trends, nor do they change at the whim of Vatican officials.

The fundamental point of the L'Osservatore Romano interview was that Catholics need to recover a sense of sin, make use of the sacrament of Confession, and receive absolution for their offenses. Sin, the archbishop insisted, is a reality that man cannot escape.

Archbishop Girotti said that the modern world does not understand the nature of sin. With their coverage of the interview, the mass media unintentionally underlined the prelate's point.
 
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enelya_taralom

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And here's an article from Zenit, another Catholic source:

http://www.zenit.org/article-22029?l=english

Littering Not New "Deadly Sin," Bishops Clarify


Say Vatican Didn't Publish List of 7 Modern Misdeeds



LONDON, MARCH 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Reports that the Vatican has published a new list of the seven deadly sins of modern times that includes littering and economic inequality is simply not true, affirmed the episcopal conference of England and Wales.

The conference released a statement today clarifying that an interview published Sunday by L'Osservatore Romano with Bishop Gianfranco Girotti, regent of the tribunal of he Apostolic Penitentiary, was misinterpreted in the media as an official Vatican update to the seven deadly sins, laid out by Pope Gregory the Great in the sixth century.

"The Vatican has not published a new list of seven deadly sins; this is not a new Vatican edict," said the conference. "The story originated from an interview that Bishop Gianfranco Girotti gave to the L'Osservatore Romano in which he was questioned about new forms of social sins in this age of globalization."

The Vatican newspaper interviewed the bishop at the conclusion of a course that took place last week on the "internal forum" -- questions of conscience -- organized by the tribunal of the Apostolic Penitentiary to strengthen the training of priests in administering the sacrament of confession. In the interview titled "Le Nuove Forme del Peccato Sociale" (The New Forms of Social Sin), journalist Nicola Gori asked the prelate what he thought are the new sins of the modern era.

Bishop Girotti responded: "There are various areas in which today we can see sinful attitudes in relation to individual and social rights.

"Above all in the area of bioethics, in which we cannot fail to denounce certain violations of the fundamental rights of human nature, by way of experiments, genetic manipulation, the effects of which are difficult to prevent and control."

"Another area, a social issue, is the issue of drug use, which debilitates the psyche and darkens the intelligence, leaving many youth outside the ecclesial circuit."

The bishop also mentioned social inequality, "by which the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer, feeding an unsustainable social injustice," and the "area of ecology."


© Innovative Media, Inc.
 
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Matt.9:22

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Hmm...Well, I don't trust the Vatican for squat, but I don't trust the news either, so....The Vatican seems to be pushing an agenda other than a religious one, but I'm the first to admit that I'm not intimately familiar with the working and philosophy of the Roman Catholic church. Generally, all I see is the abuse stories (not unique to the catholic church, a baptist member in my city was recently sentenced to jail for rape of several women in his congregation), the complaints of catholics (complaints such as the antiquities of the anti-contraceptive rules, confessionals, etc.) and so on. Plus, I've never understood why confessing to a priest was necessary. Jesus died for our sins and He serves as a...for lack of a better word, middle man...between us and God, right? So why do I need the priest. I don't, repeat DO NOT, want to start a debate those are just things I don't understand as a non-catholic. But, anyway, if the vatican is deciding what is and is not a sin, then I'll take a pass, because the Big Guy upstairs gave me a big ol' book of what He wanted me to know. However, if they're just modernizing it to make it more relevant to life rather than a seemingly antiquated list of rules, good for them.
 
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