Vatican astronomer on creationism

[benjdm]

"Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer"


"BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday. Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.
He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events."

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

 

[dlamberth]

I found that the following paragraph from the article caught my attention and caused me to pause and agree:

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

.

 

[KittyPryde]

Great article. Thank you for sharing.
It is nice to know that some people in high places don't feel the need to pit religion against science.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Go Vatican!

 

[LittleNipper]

I found that the following paragraph from the article caught my attention and caused me to pause and agree:

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

.

WHAT!

What a bunch of puppy pucky, "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to PROTECT IT FROM CREATIONISM ----IT'S TURNING GOD INTO A NATURE GOD........."

EVOLUTION is what is attempting to turn the GOD of nature into a NATURE GOD. Whether one refers to their new god as THE COSMOS, MOTHER NATURE, whatever. The fact remains that Creationists TOTALLY BELIEVE IN GOD and HIS ability to both establish and circumvent nature supernatually and without restriction. In other words, GOD has the ability to do the impossible and all the Creationists is doing is reminding scientists who do not care, a heads up. The Vatican is so humble.

 

[Loudmouth]

EVOLUTION is what is attempting to turn the GOD of nature into a NATURE GOD. Whether one refers to their new god as THE COSMOS, MOTHER NATURE, whatever.

Evolution is an observable natural mechanism, not a god. It's strange how creationists will argue that science keeps God or gods out but then turn around and claim that Evolution is a god. So what is next? Microbiologists worship their god Septicemia?

The fact remains that Creationists TOTALLY BELIEVE IN GOD

So do theistic evolutionists.

In other words, GOD has the ability to do the impossible and all the Creationists is doing is reminding scientists who do not care, a heads up. The Vatican is so humble.

Since you claim that evolution is impossible . . . never mind. Deaf ears are deaf ears.

 

[cerad]

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy,

I can understand the Vatican having observatories. Never know when a new sign from the heavens might appear. But would anyone care to speculate on why they would collect meteorites? Holy rocks?

 

[coyoteBR]

I can understand the Vatican having observatories. Never know when a new sign from the heavens might appear. But would anyone care to speculate on why they would collect meteorites? Holy rocks?

Well, if you consider the ratio population/schools, universites, centers of studies... Vatican is, by far, the sovereign country with more study centers in the world. They have aevery right (more than that, the need) to collect data.

back on topic, great article

 

[LittleNipper]

Well, if you consider the ratio population/schools, universites, centers of studies... Vatican is, by far, the sovereign country with more study centers in the world. They have aevery right (more than that, the need) to collect data.

back on topic, great article

This is very true; however, with their track record, they should not be casting stones nor seeking to remove splinters......

 

[OdwinOddball]

This is very true; however, with their track record, they should not be casting stones nor seeking to remove splinters......

Except, they aren't casting stones here, they are merely stating truth. Creationism is superstition in its highest form. The Vatican/Catholicism has realised that in order for religion/Christianity to stay current and mantain a strong following in our technology based world, it must adapt itself to modern science. Failure to do so would be to promote ignorance over progress. I know this is what you personally want LN, but the rest of the us would rather move forward than step back several hundred years.

 

[Split Rock]

This is very true; however, with their track record, they should not be casting stones nor seeking to remove splinters......

The Vatican learned a lesson from opposing the heliocentric solar system model of Copernicus and Galileo. They no longer base the faith on dogma concerning the physical world. Creationists should take note.

 

[LittleNipper]

Except, they aren't casting stones here, they are merely stating truth. Creationism is superstition in its highest form. The Vatican/Catholicism has realised that in order for religion/Christianity to stay current and mantain a strong following in our technology based world, it must adapt itself to modern science. Failure to do so would be to promote ignorance over progress. I know this is what you personally want LN, but the rest of the us would rather move forward than step back several hundred years.

The Bible is not about building truth on superstition. The Genesis revelation is not GOD entertaining ignorance. Modern science can be and I believe has become a worship of hidden knowledge. Just another form of Gnosticism. GOD is not interested in numbers. HE wants followers and believers and the faithful. HE is not about packing pews or pulling in money. Lets face it, the story of Noah is not about numbers. GOD saved but 8 individuals. If these are the end times, and I feel certain that we are closer then we ever were, that reality is that the catching away of the living maybe slim pickin's indeed.

 

[TheBear]

"Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer"


"BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday. Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.
He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events."

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

Good article. Thanks.

 

[jamesrwright3]

I think he was talking about YECers . I don't think the Vatican has disavowed the belief that God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[KittyPryde]

...
If these are the end times, and I feel certain that we are closer then we ever were, ...

From a Biblical standpoint, we are closer to the end every second that passes. We are closer to the {scientific} death of our sun every second that passes.

. . .that reality is that the catching away of the living maybe slim pickin's indeed.

I am not proficient with The Book of Revelation, but I believe that is what it says in more stylized language. This does not mean the end times are near. People have predicted the {religious} end was near ever since This Section of The New Testament was written. The years 1000, 1001, 2000, and 2001 A.D. were big favorites. Recently, June 6th, 2006 is a popular date for Revelation. The end will be when God wills it. I am satisfied at leaving it at that. My life is far more constructively spent not dwelling on the unknown.

Through the grace of God, we may all be saved. I would like to think no soul would suffer eternity in damnation.

 

[Willtor]

Except, they aren't casting stones here, they are merely stating truth. Creationism is superstition in its highest form. The Vatican/Catholicism has realised that in order for religion/Christianity to stay current and mantain a strong following in our technology based world, it must adapt itself to modern science. Failure to do so would be to promote ignorance over progress. I know this is what you personally want LN, but the rest of the us would rather move forward than step back several hundred years.

I think it's more likely that it sees a contradiction between YECism and Thomist theology. Most of the basic tools that we think of as "scientific" were non-existent in Aquinas' day, but I think his views of God and nature were instrumental in the rise of science. If Galileo, for example, had cited Aquinas in his Dialogue he might have fared better. That's speculation, of course, and the Church was steeped in reactionary theology with respect to the Reformation.

Hmmm. . . reactionary theology. That sounds familiar.

 

[LittleNipper]

The reality still remains that when GOD created Adam, GOD did not create a baby. When GOD created Eve for Adam, HE did not present Adam with a baby (though I can imagine she was a cute babe). The very logic is that GOD breathed into existance a perfect Universe with a fully functional and established ecological system. NONE of this has anything to do with the mistake that the earth does not travel around the sun------but it is a mistake not to realize that the entire universe and all creation revolve around GOD. And this is where the Vatican fails in it's observations. They still think it is all about the CHURCH.

 

[Split Rock]

The very logic is that GOD breathed into existance a perfect Universe with a fully functional and established ecological system.

How can you say he created a functional ecological system when there was no death and no decay in the Garden of Eden? If there is no turnover of nutrients, there is no ecological system. How does a Garden with no turnover and no death handle the exponential increase in population numbers caused by reproduction?

This is just another example of how YEC interpretation of scripture fails logic.

 

[TheBear]

How can you say he created a functional ecological system when there was no death and no decay in the Garden of Eden? If there is no turnover of nutrients, there is no ecological system. How does a Garden with no turnover and no death handle the exponential increase in population numbers caused by reproduction?

This is just another example of how YEC interpretation of scripture fails logic.

With magic and imagination, all things are possible.

 

[LittleNipper]

How can you say he created a functional ecological system when there was no death and no decay in the Garden of Eden? If there is no turnover of nutrients, there is no ecological system. How does a Garden with no turnover and no death handle the exponential increase in population numbers caused by reproduction?

This is just another example of how YEC interpretation of scripture fails logic.

To say that heaven itself doesn't have a functioning ecological system would be very narrowminded and without substance. Things grew in the Garden of Eden. Adam tended a garden. Both Adam and Eve ate fruit. Adam apparently had occasion to walk with Christ in the cool of the day (the Creator). GOD created an entire Universe. How do you assume that GOD's plan was not to eventually populate the entire Universe from a starting point of earth...?
This is how Evolutionists apply the wrong logic or at the very least assumed logic that fails to meet the parameters of applied perfection. You are trying to fit everything to jaded expectations of a fallen Universe...