Vandalism

[Mystman]

In some places, vandalism is a significant problem. Sometimes, the damage done by vandals can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros. As an example, a number of "fancy" busstops and associated busses near my home are vandalized for the cost of ~700.000 euro, every year. And that's done by just a small group of youths.

Now.... what to do about it? What to do when you catch the perpetrators?

Should we just refrain from having nice things in public areas? Should we try to make the perpetrators pay for the damage?

What happens when the damage gets so large (e.g. in the 700.000 euro case..) that a perpetrator isn't likely to ever make enough money to pay for the damage he has done? Should we as a society take our losses? Or spend even more money by throwing the criminal in jail?

I personally like the idea of just selling the criminal to some foreign country - I'm sure that someone with a primary/high school education is worth something to say.. a Somali pirate or Afghan warlord. But then you get the whole "slavery is bad" idea...

So I don't really have a stance on the issue yet, any ideas?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Force them to do community service to clean up the city along with a fine. The first issue is should we treat minors and adults differently? With a minor, we can give the bill to their parents, but is that the right thing to do? If you want to start back fully taking away a persons rights (instead of just limiting them, like many forms of state punishment do), you are opening up a whole new can of worms, especially considering many involved in vandalism are still, technically, children.

 

[Verv]

In some places, vandalism is a significant problem. Sometimes, the damage done by vandals can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros. As an example, a number of "fancy" busstops and associated busses near my home are vandalized for the cost of ~700.000 euro, every year. And that's done by just a small group of youths.

Now.... what to do about it? What to do when you catch the perpetrators?

Should we just refrain from having nice things in public areas? Should we try to make the perpetrators pay for the damage?

What happens when the damage gets so large (e.g. in the 700.000 euro case..) that a perpetrator isn't likely to ever make enough money to pay for the damage he has done? Should we as a society take our losses? Or spend even more money by throwing the criminal in jail?

I personally like the idea of just selling the criminal to some foreign country - I'm sure that someone with a primary/high school education is worth something to say.. a Somali pirate or Afghan warlord. But then you get the whole "slavery is bad" idea...

So I don't really have a stance on the issue yet, any ideas?

I always thought the best programs involved having the vandals serve the community by going around and cleaning up the vandalism that they created.

If not I have always supported simply setting them up with long-term payment policies.

"You wrecked 700 euros worth of property; you are not going to jail but you will pay us monthly installments until you die or pay it off."

 

[Penumbra]

I say a combination of community service, jail time, and a long-term payment plan.

Also, if a community repeatedly demonstrates that it isn't responsible to have nice things, then taxpayers shouldn't keep paying for them.

I wouldn't support slavery. I think the punishment should be steep enough that very, very few people would be stupid enough to vandalize, if it's really that big of a problem. If the possible punishment is 1000 greater than the "reward" of having vandalized something, then it isn't worth it.

"You wrecked 700 euros worth of property; you are not going to jail but you will pay us monthly installments until you die or pay it off."

I think he meant 700 thousand euros, which a person is unlikely ever to pay off. A monthly payment plan is fine, but it would hardly make a dent in the monetary value of destruction, and his question was who should take that financial hit.

-Lyn

 

[Maren]

My personal feeling is Community Service in the form of cleaning the community combined with a personal apology to the property owner (if privately owned) and, at the judge's discretion, a possible fine/restitution in lieu of some (but not all) of the service. Also, if possible, some of the community service should be done in repairing the vandalism to help them understand the harm the causes, which helps to show how they actually hurt a person.

I don't believe in prison, if at all possible, for non-violent and first time offenders as those who go in often come out worse.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

I think, as far as I have seen, a combination of fees/fines, jail time (to some extent, at least), and certainly Community Service.
*Community Service with fines being the most efficient, from what I can see.

(Sadly, I knew and associated with many a hoodlum and vandal in my days [makes me sound old or something lol] and they reacted the most to community service really. Make them spend their time and effort to fix what people like them mess up, and they start to realize that it simply isn't worth it to vandalize anymore...usually anyway.)

 

[quatona]

In some places, vandalism is a significant problem. Sometimes, the damage done by vandals can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros. As an example, a number of "fancy" busstops and associated busses near my home are vandalized for the cost of ~700.000 euro, every year. And that's done by just a small group of youths.

Now.... what to do about it? What to do when you catch the perpetrators?

Should we just refrain from having nice things in public areas? Should we try to make the perpetrators pay for the damage?

What happens when the damage gets so large (e.g. in the 700.000 euro case..) that a perpetrator isn't likely to ever make enough money to pay for the damage he has done? Should we as a society take our losses? Or spend even more money by throwing the criminal in jail?

Personally, I´d first ask myself:
Why haven´t we succeeded in convincing them that it´s nice to have nice things around?
Questions like "What would be the best punishment?" simply ignore the actual problem.

 

[RealityPixie]

In regards to actual damage; yes, fixing the damage. If the fine is huge then put them on a payment plan. Even if they are on it for the rest of their lives, chances are they don't want to add to their debt.

In regards to graffiti....how many times have you seen a large, properly thought out piece of street art that has been graffitied over with tags and grossness? Dunno about you guys, but it doesn't happen around here often. Strangely enough, for actual art graffiti they seem to have a level of respect. A couple of businesses in my community had some problems with graffiti, so they hired graffiti artists to paint murals in these areas. BAM. No graffiti. It's been a couple of years now and aside from the occasional very small tag there, nothing. This has also happened in a few places in the inner city, these murals seem to go untouched by taggers.

In the tagging scene there is significant respect for other artists. If your tag is seen defacing such an artwork, chances are you're gunna get looked down upon by your peers (yes I have talked to taggers about this, this seems to be how most of them think). Not only that, but you get to have some brilliant funky artwork sprucing up your streets! And you provide a valid source of income for these artists by commisioning and upkeeping these murals! The taggers either grow up or move into creating commissioned street art. Win win, no?

In other areas where this isn't possible, the immediate removal of the graffiti is the only real option. As I said, tagging is to be seen, so if you are tagging an area and it just goes away within a few hours, what's the point? Get caught taggers to sweep these areas every 48 hours and paint over the tags. Cleans it up and acts as community service.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Now.... what to do about it? What to do when you catch the perpetrators?

If they're 18 or older, slap them around. If they're under 18, slap their parents around