Vain babbling

LaSpino3 · Nov 9, 2011

In any know language under the sun, all Christians past and present, with the language of their fathers can pray, and God will hear. Put another way, what prayer in a known language can Christians' pray, making supplication, that He will not hear?

Now there are those who claim to be able through the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown, or alien language, not known to any man. So my question is,

Are the prayers of those who pray in a known language inferior to those who claim to pray in this alien, unknown, heavenly language? In any way, is their prayer superior to ours?

The duties of all Christians is to use the tongue of their mouth to speak to God, The following list is in no way complete. But these duties can be accomplished in the common language of your country, your father, or studied.

We are with our tongues to,

Glorify God,
Magnifying his name.
To preach the word.
Sing praises unto him.
To declare to others, God's goodness.
To pray for our needs.
To make an open profession of our subjection to Him.
To defend the truth.
To exhort men to their God given duties.
To confess our sins.
To seek out advise from fellow Christians.
To praise and encourage our brothers and sisters.
To bear witness to the truth.
To defend the innocent.

To communicate to others the good things we have received from God.
Which of the above cannot be accomplished by those who speak a known language, love God, and believe by faith. Will God turn his back against our lips when we pray from the heart?

To those who claim to speak in some unknown tongue, which of the above, or what other benefit can you claim to have above, and beyond those of us who pray in our own tongue? What manner of prayer can you offer up to God that is superior to those of us who pray in a common language?

God will not be mocked,

1 Tim.6:20, "Avoiding profane and vain (empty talk) babblings and oppositions of science (knowledge) falsely so called."

2 Tim.2:16, "Shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

Jude 18, "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts." These be they who separate (cause division) themselves, sensual (worldly) having not the Spirit.

Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com

Son of Zadok · Nov 9, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
In any know language under the sun, all Christians past and present, with the language of their fathers can pray, and God will hear. Put another way, what prayer in a known language can Christians' pray, making supplication, that He will not hear?

Now there are those who claim to be able through the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown, or alien language, not known to any man. So my question is,

Are the prayers of those who pray in a known language inferior to those who claim to pray in this alien, unknown, heavenly language? In any way, is their prayer superior to ours?

The duties of all Christians is to use the tongue of their mouth to speak to God, The following list is in no way complete. But these duties can be accomplished in the common language of your country, your father, or studied.

We are with our tongues to,

Glorify God,
Magnifying his name.
To preach the word.
Sing praises unto him.
To declare to others, God's goodness.
To pray for our needs.
To make an open profession of our subjection to Him.
To defend the truth.
To exhort men to their God given duties.
To confess our sins.
To seek out advise from fellow Christians.
To praise and encourage our brothers and sisters.
To bear witness to the truth.
To defend the innocent.

To communicate to others the good things we have received from God.
Which of the above cannot be accomplished by those who speak a known language, love God, and believe by faith. Will God turn his back against our lips when we pray from the heart?

To those who claim to speak in some unknown tongue, which of the above, or what other benefit can you claim to have above, and beyond those of us who pray in our own tongue? What manner of prayer can you offer up to God that is superior to those of us who pray in a common language?

God will not be mocked,

1 Tim.6:20, "Avoiding profane and vain (empty talk) babblings and oppositions of science (knowledge) falsely so called."

2 Tim.2:16, "Shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

Jude 18, "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts." These be they who separate (cause division) themselves, sensual (worldly) having not the Spirit.

Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com

In the grand scheme of things - why is someone else's prayer a concern?

What I find interesting is when Jesus confronted his disciples (we could consider him confronting them about vain prayers) how the sacred scriptures discripes how the actual "Christians" reacted.

Was Peter whispering to John “I bet Jesus is talking about Judas, he just has not been right lately. You know what I mean?” But rather each turned to the master and asked - “L-rd is it I?”

Son of Zadok

Truth_Warrior · Nov 9, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
In any know language under the sun, all Christians past and present, with the language of their fathers can pray, and God will hear. Put another way, what prayer in a known language can Christians' pray, making supplication, that He will not hear?

Now there are those who claim to be able through the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown, or alien language, not known to any man. So my question is,

Are the prayers of those who pray in a known language inferior to those who claim to pray in this alien, unknown, heavenly language? In any way, is their prayer superior to ours?

The duties of all Christians is to use the tongue of their mouth to speak to God, The following list is in no way complete. But these duties can be accomplished in the common language of your country, your father, or studied.

We are with our tongues to,

Glorify God,
Magnifying his name.
To preach the word.
Sing praises unto him.
To declare to others, God's goodness.
To pray for our needs.
To make an open profession of our subjection to Him.
To defend the truth.
To exhort men to their God given duties.
To confess our sins.
To seek out advise from fellow Christians.
To praise and encourage our brothers and sisters.
To bear witness to the truth.
To defend the innocent.

To communicate to others the good things we have received from God.
Which of the above cannot be accomplished by those who speak a known language, love God, and believe by faith. Will God turn his back against our lips when we pray from the heart?

To those who claim to speak in some unknown tongue, which of the above, or what other benefit can you claim to have above, and beyond those of us who pray in our own tongue? What manner of prayer can you offer up to God that is superior to those of us who pray in a common language?

God will not be mocked,

1 Tim.6:20, "Avoiding profane and vain (empty talk) babblings and oppositions of science (knowledge) falsely so called."

2 Tim.2:16, "Shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

Jude 18, "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts." These be they who separate (cause division) themselves, sensual (worldly) having not the Spirit.

Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com

What is Speaking in Tongues and why does God say in 1 Corinthians 14:5 that He would like each Christian to do it?

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

No doubt that is a question that has been asked by millions of Christians throughout the centuries, and I believe that knowing the answer is vital for maximizing the quality of one's life as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why?

The primary reason, as a study of Scripture will clearly show, is: speaking in tongues is the only absolute proof a Christian has that he is born again and guaranteed everlasting life (2 Cor. 1:21, 22; Eph. 1:13, 14; 1 John 3:24).

Speaking in tongues is the only valid external, tangible evidence in the senses realm that the internal, intangible gift of the Holy Spirit was shed abroad in one's heart at the moment of his new birth.(simply put,its believers proof that he is born again)

Please do not hear me saying that you must speak in tongues in order to be born again. No, anyone who adheres to Romans 10:9 is saved, permanentaly.

Why?

Because at that moment he is born again of incorruptible seed (1 Pet. 1:23).

Speaking in tongues is the vitally important proof that you are forever a child of God.

The second most important thing about speaking in tongues is that it vividly illustrates to the believer the most basic principle of the Christian walk, which is trusting the Word of our heavenly Father.

Beyond that, speaking in tongues is a beautiful way to circumvent the limited vocabulary of our native tongue and tell our Father that we love Him.

It is a way to perfectly worship (Phil. 3:3)

It is a way praise (1 Cor. 14:16) the Creator.

It is a way to give thanks well (1 Cor. 14:17)

It is a way to speak the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11)

It is a way to magnify Him (Acts 10:46)

It is a way to edify yourself (1 Cor. 14:4) and to build yourself up in faith (Jude 20).

If you have never done it,then I guess you ignore parts of God Word and keep what you wish.( Corinthians are church epistles written to ALL Christians.

speaking in tongues is one of the nine manifestations (1 Cor. 12:7) of the gift of holy spirit.

The word manifestation comes from two Latin words, manus, meaning hand, and festare, meaning to touch.

It refers to something concrete and tangible. The gift of holy spirit each person receives when he gets born again is not tangible, because it is spirit, something not in the realm of the five senses.

Thats why Scripture does not promise that one will feel anything when he gets born again. And that is why God has provided indisputable proof that something did happen, something so indescribably miraculous that there can be no ifs, ands, or buts about it!

By the manifestation of the spirit known as speaking in tongues, which only Christians can do. Speaking in tongues is how the spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God (Rom. 8:15) and, with the verse properly punctuated, it is what 1 John 5:11 refers to as "the witness that God has given us eternal life.

Hey, that fits perfectly with Acts 1:8, when Jesus told his disciples that when they received the holy spirit, they would be witnesses of him.

Why?

Because they would then have within them his witness to them that they were equipped with all they needed to go forth in his name!

How tragic that countless Christians never take advantage of this marvelous ability. They dont because they cantif they are taught that speaking in tongues ended with the first-century apostles, or that it is devilish, or that it is a gift for only some people, or if they are taught nothing at all about it.

Truth_Warrior · Nov 9, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
God will not be mocked,

Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
I guess Paul was the ultimate mocker of God by your comment.

Do you not believe that Corinthians is written to you?

I speak in tongues every single day and I know its genuine and edifies me.

What other parts of Gods Word do you overlook because it doesn't fit what you were taught?

LaSpino3 · Nov 10, 2011

Son of Zadok wrote, "In the grand scheme of things - why is someone else's prayer a concern?"

Phil replies, "It doesn't."

Truth warrior, that was a great post, and I agree with you completely. Except for one itty, bitty, tiny, concern.

Whenever I am researching anything in the Scriptures, or doing a cross-ward puzzle, or whatever, and I run across a word, or phrase that I am not sure of its meaning, I go to a dictionary. Now if we have a good dictionary, it will explain the exact meaning of that particular word.

So here is my case. I am always focused on the true meaning of words, and in this case, the word "Tongues."

I study words, this is my gift from the Holy Spirit. I have in my possession
4 Bibles that predate 1825. Each say on the introduction page,

"Translated from the original tongues." So what does that mean? They have been translated for Hebrew, and Greek, into English.

Its what Scriptures mean when they speak of "Tongues?" This including all of first Corinthians.

The Greek and Hebrew defination for the word "Tongues," is long, but both the Hebrew, and Greek agree in there meaning. Following are some examples.

1 John 3:18, "Let us not love in word, neither in tongue = (speech only)."

Of a particular language, or dialect, as spoken by a particular people,
Acts 2:11, "Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

Septuagint and Hebrew,
Gen.10:5-20, "By these were the Isles (coastland people) of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue (languade,) after their families, and in their nations."

Dan.1:4, "Whom they might teach the learning (writing) and the tongue (language) of the Chaldeans."

Put for the people who use a language, as in,

Rev.5:9, "By thy blood out of every kindred = (tribes,) and tongue (language,) and people, and nation." Also, Rev.7:9,10:11, 11:9, 13:7, 14:6, 17:15, "Where the wh*ore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Sept. and Heb. Isa.66:18, "I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory."

In the phrase, Acts 2:4, "They were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues," with ver.8, "And how hear we every man in our own tongue (language,) wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, etc."

Or, as in Mark 16:17, to speak in, or with other, "New tongues = (new languages.)"

Acts 10:46, 19:6. 1 Cor.12:30,14:2-4-5-6-13-18-23-27-39; "Speak with tongues."

1 Cor.14:14, to pray in unknown Language. 1 Cor.14:19, to discourse in an unknown tongue (language,)" or simply tongues, 1 Cor.12:10, with ver.28, 13:8, 14:22-26.

Here, according to the two passages in Mark and Acts, the sense would seem to be, to speak in other living languages; but if the passages in 1Cor. be taken as the basis, these phrases would mean, to speak another language, a language familiar to that person, but not to the others in attendance.

Lets say a German born person, who has come to America, who now speaks both German, and English.

This person gets into a state of high spiritual excitement, or ecstasy from inspiration, is unconscious of external things around them, and fully absorbed in communion with God, breaking forth into abrupt expressions of praise and devotion, which are not intelligible to those present. That person is praising God in their native language, that being German.

The language (German) may not be familiar to the others in attendance.

Lets examine, 1 Cor.14:2-4-6-7,

Ver.2, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue (language) speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit (his spirit) he speaketh mysteries. Its a mystery until an interpretor gets involved.

Ver.4, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" This when no intrepter is present.

Ver.6. If I (Paul) come unto you speaking with tongues (many languages) what shall I profit you?"

ver.7, "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe (flute) or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

Lets begin with this.

Phil LaSpino

Ignatius the Hermit · Nov 10, 2011

Sometimes I wonder if all the theological bickering we get ourselves into is not considered 'vain babbling'?

Hillsage · Nov 10, 2011

Kirkhaven said:
Sometimes I wonder if all the theological bickering we get ourselves into is not considered 'vain babbling'?

Although I suspect there are no truer words spoken so far, I'm still going to jump in with understanding that will probably never be understood.

LaSpino3

In any know language under the sun, all Christians past and present, with the language of their fathers can pray, and God will hear. Put another way, what prayer in a known language can Christians' pray, making supplication, that He will not hear?

He will hear them all. But that's not the question you should be asking. You should be asking WHY did God come up with a language besides the one you learned in the flesh from your forefathers?

Now there are those who claim to be able through the Holy Spirit to pray in an unknown, or alien language, not known to any man.

And our 'claim' is biblical. Though I would replace "alien" with 'spiritual'...like the bible does. And with a small "s" I might also add.

1CO 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So I ask you Phil, why is scripture speaking about a language 'from your spirit' that NO MAN understands...not even me...or 'a fellow German', as you offered in your post's 'case scenario'?

So my question is,

Are the prayers of those who pray in a known language inferior to those who claim to pray in this alien, unknown, heavenly language? In any way, is their prayer superior to ours?

I'll ask you a question. If someone who is deaf/mute 'signs' silently (in a language you don't understand), are they praying in a more inferior way than you, especially if you are just babbling in English with your mouth?

The duties of all Christians is to use the tongue of their mouth to speak to God,

No mute's allowed in YOUR church PHIL?

God made you a spirit soul body Phil. And, if possible, you should speak to God in all three of those aspects of your being. That's what I believe...and practice. With my body I 'sign' to God (bowing, kneeling, raising hands), with my soul I speak in the vernacular (English) to God, and with my spirit I speak in a tongue not known to my mind...or yours.

tturt · Nov 10, 2011

Let's face it - if it was manifest in a different way - a halo appeared - no, that wouldn't be acceptable, if it was manifest in an acceptable way (not sure what we all could agree on), there probably wouldn't be half of these discussions.

Ignatius the Hermit · Nov 10, 2011

tturt said:
Let's face it - if it was manifest in a different way - a halo appeared - no, that wouldn't be acceptable, if it was manifest in an acceptable way (not sure what we all could agree on), there probably wouldn't be half of these discussions.

Truth_Warrior · Nov 10, 2011

Hillsage said:
Although I suspect there are no truer words spoken so far, I'm still going to jump in with understanding that will probably never be understood.

LaSpino3
He will hear them all. But that's not the question you should be asking. You should be asking WHY did God come up with a language besides the one you learned in the flesh from your forefathers?

And our 'claim' is biblical. Though I would replace "alien" with 'spiritual'...like the bible does. And with a small "s" I might also add.

1CO 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So I ask you Phil, why is scripture speaking about a language 'from your spirit' that NO MAN understands...not even me...or 'a fellow German', as you offered in your post's 'case scenario'?

I'll ask you a question. If someone who is deaf/mute 'signs' silently (in a language you don't understand), are they praying in a more inferior way than you, especially if you are just babbling in English with your mouth?

No mute's allowed in YOUR church PHIL?

God made you a spirit soul body Phil. And, if possible, you should speak to God in all three of those aspects of your being. That's what I believe...and practice. With my body I 'sign' to God (bowing, kneeling, raising hands), with my soul I speak in the vernacular (English) to God, and with my spirit I speak in a tongue not known to my mind...or yours.

great points

LaSpino3 · Nov 11, 2011

Kirkhaven wrote, "Sometimes I wonder if all the theological bickering we get ourselves into is not considered 'vain babbling'?"

Phil replies, "No, its called correcting false teachings, and false doctrines; after all it is our eternal soul that's at stake, so lets get it right.

Hillsage, your comments on deaf mutes is ridiculous. God reads the hearts of men. If any of you desire to debate this subject, lets stay on subject, and not wander off from Biblicial principles, and facts.

There are those who speak in tongues who say that the definition of certain words found in Greek and Hebrew dictionaries is not important, especially when it disagrees with what they teach and do. This is their frame of mind which is ridiculous. If we did not have these source materials, as in dictionaries, or Lexicons, then every word in the Bible would be up for grabs.

For those who speak in tongues, what are you going to do with the following?

Tongues are a sign. 1 Cor.14:22, "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe NOT." let me repeat this verse,

"Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe NOT."

A sign for who?

"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign," So is that what your looking for, signs from God?

Tough words for those who teach tongues.

Compare with, Matt.16:4, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign."

It is not unreasonable to interpret and make clear the unknown, 1 Cor.14, with the help of the known, Acts 2.

Read, and study Acts 2:1 thru 13, if you care at all about the truth. Acts tell you exactly what tongues means.

The clarity of Acts 2 places the burden of proof on any other meaning of the word tongues. Hebrew, Greek, and English concordances reveal to us Paul's meaning and use of the word. To add anything to this meaning is to add to the Scriptures.

Paul did not believe there was anything wrong with the gift of tongues. In fact, he thought it would be good if everyone had this gift. He said the same thing about celibacy,

1 Cor.7:7, "For I would that all men were even as I myself," ver.8, "To the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I."

In neither case did Paul expect a universal compliance with his statement on celibacy, or tongues. Since both were gifts from God, neither should be rejected.

These instructions by Paul to the Corinthians, were issued because of the misuse of the gift. Let's take a look at one of your proof verses for tongues.

1 Cor 14:2-5, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

Note the following, "He that speaketh," and "He speaketh mysteries." "He," a substitute for the third person, masculine gender, representing a MAN, not a women.

The words, "Howbeit in the spirit HE speaketh mysteries." Howbeit, is a reference to something else. Howbeit serves to mark opposition or antithesis, and transition. "In the spirit," as opposed to, "the understanding,"

Corinth was a port city, having a diversity of people from foreign lands. People from Asia, Africa, and Europe, a mixed population, giving an exercise of the gift of tongues.

In a church setting if one of these Christian foreigners began to speak in their own language, having no interpreter, how then could the congregation understand and be edified? They could not. Therefore the person speaking this forign language would be speaking to God alone, and not to men.

1 Cor.14:2, "If I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

In Acts 2:8, We read that those foreigners heard the apostles speak in their own languages, they being, Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamia, Judaea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, Pamphylia in Egypt, Libya, Cyrene, Rome etc.

These were foreign languages the apostiles had never learned. This was the power of the Holy Spirit working through them, and the power was not in their speaking, but in the hearing of the crowd. ver.8, "How HEAR we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Let me stop here,

Phil LaSpino

Truth_Warrior · Nov 11, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
These were foreign languages the apostiles had never learned. This was the power of the Holy Spirit working through them, and the power was not in their speaking, but in the hearing of the crowd. ver.8, "How HEAR we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Let me stop here,

Phil LaSpino

Prove that statement.

You should stop there.

You can't take scriptures out of context of chapters like 12,13 and 14 of 1 Cor. they must read and understood in context as well realizing they are adressed to the Church.

Discount them if you like but it is those who disregard scripture because it doesn't fit your little box you have built that make Gods Word appear to have contradictions and makes Christianity look like any other man made religion.

You must reali8ze that Paul was adressing the error of the manifestions that the Corinthian church was engaged in but the whole section shows that tongues exist and in personal prayer and worship they edify the believer.

I can help you to speak in tongues and speak the wonderful works of God if you wish.

Its simple and its not optional like you said earlier because at the end of chapter 14 we see proof of this.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

I can help you out of the box and follow these commandments for no Christian wants to be ignorant(I think)

Hillsage · Nov 11, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
Phil replies, "No, its called correcting false teachings, and false doctrines; after all it is our eternal soul that's at stake, so lets get it right.

In looking at your post I believe you have a misunderstanding of Corinthians 12, 14. It appears to me that you don't seem to understand that there are different tongues. In the bible, if you delve in and read to depths that most never see, you'll find 3 different tongues from 2 different sources.

There are TWO SOURCES of tongues.
1. MY SPIRIT (1Co 14:14)
2. THE HOLY SPIRIT (1Co 12:11)

There are THREE PURPOSES of tongues.
1. Self edification. (1Cor 14:4)
2. Church edification. (1Cor 14:4, 5)
3. World edification. (Acts 2:8)

There are three categories of tongues with three purposes.
1. Prayer tongues, FROM...MY SPIRIT (1Cor 14:14) PRAYING to God, as I will, for SELF- EDIFICATION (1Cor 14:4) (angelic/spiritual/heavenly language).

2. Tongues WITH interpretation FROM...THE Holy Spirit and manifested individually, as HE wills, for CHURCH EDIFICATION (unknown language to giver AND interpreter, but MAY be a known tongue of man). Tongues with interpretation is 2 gifts equal to prophecy (1Cor 14:5). ( Spiritual/heavenly but also tongues of man/earthly)

3. Tongues FROM...THE Holy Spirit WITHOUT interpretation for ministry of the gospel...or WORLD EDIFICATION. Known languages of man, unknown to giver, known to receiver (Acts 2:8).

I know this a new concept to you, but it certainly explains why you misapplied the verses in Acts and 1Co 12,14 as you did. You take verses dealing with human spirit prayer tongues and Holy Spirit tongues and human language tongues and try to make them the same tongue...they are not.

You will never come to an in depth understanding of the whole subject on biblical tongues until you come to the shallow understanding that Paul is simply lumping all three types of tongues into one generalized 'tongue' category as he talks about the differences between them. He didn't write to the ignorant understanding of so many today, he wrote to those who knew these tongue differences 2000 years ago.

Hillsage, your comments on deaf mutes is ridiculous. God reads the hearts of men. If any of you desire to debate this subject, lets stay on subject, and not wander off from Biblicial principles, and facts.

You are the one who made the ridiculous statement concerning God demanding all to worship with their mouth. Your statement was simply unbiblical and short sighted and I believe my comment simply pointed out the "ridiculousness" of your comment.

LaSpino3 · Nov 11, 2011

Do you know what I find amusing, if your so caught up in, and appear to believe in your heart what your saying to me, than why don't any of you address my concerns.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not meant to divide the body of Christ, but to unite it. I believe one of the first clues as to why I believe this phenomena is not from God, because it has divided, and not united the church.

1. Show me one Lexicon, or dictionary that states the Greek, and Hebrew word for tongues means anything else but that of a know language, Idiom, or dialect of a people, tribe, or nation. If you can't, then you have added to the meaning of the word, thus you have added a new teaching.

2. When you speak in tongues, and you have no interpreter, and don't know yourself what your saying, how do you know your not addressing evil spirits?

3. If tongues is a sign for unbelievers, why are you speaking it in a church where for the most part believers are gathered to worship God?

Truth warrior, There were at least 12, or 13 different nations of people that stood before the apostles, in Acts 2. There were at least 5-6 thousand or more of standing there. They were from Asia, Greece, Rome, Africa, etc. all speaking different languages.

Acts 2:8, Those standing there said, "How hear we = (all the strangers) every man in our own tongue (language,) from where we were born."

Acts 2:7, One of the foreigners said as the Apostles spoke, "Behold, are not all these (apostles) which speak Galileans?"

Galileans implying that the apostles were uneducated, and consequently ignorant of other languages, but now spoke every language fluently. The apostles spoke no other language but that of their own country.

And if every stranger heard the gospel message, how did the apostles know what countries these people were from? and what idiom, and dialect they spoke? They may have guessed a few, but not all.

These people in the Corinthian chuch were not being complimented by Paul, they were being repremended by Paul. The church was being divided, and falling into sinful habits, that's why Paul was writing to them.

Paul was one of the most highly educated men in Israel. He was taught by Gamaliel. He was one of the most distinguished doctors of Jewish law, a brilliant man who taught Paul. This is why Paul said he spoke many languages, he studied them.

Phil LaSpino

Truth_Warrior · Nov 11, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
Do you know what I find amusing, if your so caught up in, and appear to believe in your heart what your saying to me, than why don't any of you address my concerns.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not meant to divide the body of Christ, but to unite it. I believe one of the first clues as to why I believe this phenomena is not from God, because it has divided, and not united the church.

1. Show me one Lexicon, or dictionary that states the Greek, and Hebrew word for tongues means anything else but that of a know language, Idiom, or dialect of a people, tribe, or nation. If you can't, then you have added to the meaning of the word, thus you have added a new teaching.

2. When you speak in tongues, and you have no interpreter, and don't know yourself what your saying, how do you know your not addressing evil spirits?

3. If tongues is a sign for unbelievers, why are you speaking it in a church where for the most part believers are gathered to worship God?

Truth warrior, There were at least 12, or 13 different nations of people that stood before the apostles, in Acts 2. There were at least 5-6 thousand or more of standing there. They were from Asia, Greece, Rome, Africa, etc. all speaking different languages.

Acts 2:8, Those standing there said, "How hear we = (all the strangers) every man in our own tongue (language,) from where we were born."

Acts 2:7, One of the foreigners said as the Apostles spoke, "Behold, are not all these (apostles) which speak Galileans?"

Galileans implying that the apostles were uneducated, and consequently ignorant of other languages, but now spoke every language fluently. The apostles spoke no other language but that of their own country.

And if every stranger heard the gospel message, how did the apostles know what countries these people were from? and what idiom, and dialect they spoke? They may have guessed a few, but not all.

These people in the Corinthian chuch were not being complimented by Paul, they were being repremended by Paul. The church was being divided, and falling into sinful habits, that's why Paul was writing to them.

Paul was one of the most highly educated men in Israel. He was taught by Gamaliel. He was one of the most distinguished doctors of Jewish law, a brilliant man who taught Paul. This is why Paul said he spoke many languages, he studied them.

Phil LaSpino

What you fail to see is that you look at thinks with a wordly view as it pertains to speaking in tongues.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

notice the men and angels tongues ?

How many men do you know that speak a language of angels.

My tongue can be a language of men or angels.

Also notice that another manifestation is interpretation of tongues(if you understand it then why does it need interpreting).

Any lexicon describes tongues as a language(thats the whole point,its not vain babbling)

1Co_14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Seems Paul is right and your wrong.

you talk about unity but you post something to divide and say its others who divide because they choose to realize that Corinthians are adressed to us and Paul says these are commandments.

Every single thread you post is meant to divide and cause contention under the disguise of saying you just speak the truth.

Here is the truth..............I believe your intent is division.

read these verses again.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

If you want to be ignorant that is your right.

As for me I simply believe that ALL of Corinthians is adressed to me and I want to follow the commandments.

What you wish to do is your business but stop causing division just because I accept whats written.

You wrote in a post"i will stop here"

Please do because your unbelief in scripture is neither unifying or edifying.

The ONLY reason you started this thread was to cause division and if you don't see that it would, you are truly
not seeking wisdom.

I have seen many like you and many more will come but don't for one second think that your motives are pure they are not.

Hillsage · Nov 11, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
Do you know what I find amusing, if your so caught up in, and appear to believe in your heart what your saying to me, than why don't any of you address my concerns.

To be quite honest, I believe that any responses would simply fall on ears that will/can not hear. You are obviously old at 75, and I suspect very indoctrinated...and for many years to boot. But I'll oblige your challenge and we'll see what happens.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not meant to divide the body of Christ, but to unite it. I believe one of the first clues as to why I believe this phenomena is not from God, because it has divided, and not united the church.

You do err in that you do not discern the difference between the body of Christ and that LARGE body of people who simply gather in the mutual agreement of that 'religious spirit' called denominational-ism.

1. Show me one Lexicon, or dictionary that states the Greek, and Hebrew word for tongues means anything else but that of a know language, Idiom, or dialect of a people, tribe, or nation. If you can't, then you have added to the meaning of the word, thus you have added a new teaching.

Show me a lexicon or dictionary that was written by someone who spoke in tongues as opposed to those which were written by men whose interpretations were based upon the limitations of their own lack of personal charismatic experiences in God. Men lacking supernatural charisma experiences, but who were too prideful to admit that there was something THEY didn't have.

2. When you speak in tongues, and you have no interpreter, and don't know yourself what your saying, how do you know your not addressing evil spirits?

The same way I know that when I "asked God for a fish/egg" He didn't "give me a serpent/scorpion".

Do you know that there is at least one scholar who believes that the following verse shouldn't have spirit and holy spirit capitalized? He thinks that 'Fundamentally experienced' translators added those capitals incorrectly. His writings have led me to believe that fundamentalists can say Jesus is your Savior, but you really can't say Jesus is your Lord if you've never submitted your tongue to the lordship of that holy born again spirit of Christ that indwells all believers.

1CO 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the spirit of/from God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the holy spirit.

3. If tongues is a sign for unbelievers, why are you speaking it in a church where for the most part believers are gathered to worship God?

If you aren't "worshiping IN SPIRIT and in truth" you aren't worshiping to the fullness that's available to the body of Christ.

1CO 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit/TONGUES and I will pray with the mind/ENGLISH also; I will sing with the spirit/TONGUES and I will sing with the mind/ENGLISH also.

In my experience, I have worshiped 'in tongues' with 'Spirit baptized' and tongue talking Baptists, Catholics and Presbyterians...all in the same sanctuary. And do you know what???? I couldn't tell a Baptist tongue from a Catholic tongue. It was very UNIFYING experience given the state of today's very much DIVIDED DENOMINATIONAL BODY OF CHRIST.

These people in the Corinthian chuch were not being complimented by Paul, they were being repremended by Paul. The church was being divided, and falling into sinful habits, that's why Paul was writing to them.

First off, I think it is significant that Paul wished; ALL WOULD speak in tongues...and he did not say 'ALL COULD speak in tongues'.

1CO 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues...
That same 'word' applies today also.

And at the end of all his 'reprimanding' GUESS WHAT PAUL'S FINAL ADMONISHMENT FOR THE CHURCH WAS????

1CO 14:39 So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues;
Does your church forbid the spiritual gift of supernatural tongues?

Paul was one of the most highly educated men in Israel. He was taught by Gamaliel. He was one of the most distinguished doctors of Jewish law, a brilliant man who taught Paul. This is why Paul said he spoke many languages, he studied them.

1CO 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
He didn't just speak in the tongues of earthly men Laspino. He also spoke in the spiritual heavenly tongues of angels that "no man understands".

tturt · Nov 12, 2011

[FONT=&quot]To[/FONT]ngues are a sign to unbelievers of believers. I Cor 14:22 “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.” Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”

This is what I suggest – if you don’t think tongues are for you, seriously repent to Yahweh and tell Him if He wants you to have them, you want them. Then expect to receive.

Truth_Warrior · Nov 12, 2011

tturt said:
[FONT=&quot]To[/FONT]ngues are a sign to unbelievers of believers. I Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

This is what I suggest if you dont think tongues are for you, seriously repent to Yahweh and tell Him if He wants you to have them, you want them. Then expect to receive.

This whole thread like many others laspino started is designed for not showing truth but for division and if you go back and look you will see a trend.

He starts a thread.....gets the fire and division started and bows out.

Mr. start and dart Laspino.

God did not give us 9 manifestaions for us disregard but rather to utilize what God gave us.

I speakin tongues and have for 35 years and its not vain babble because God gave me much more.

Many don't see that these manifestaions are for them because of what they are taught like Laspino was taught and now teaches.

Scripture is clear and it is said to be commandments and Corinthians 12,13 and 14 beautifully lays it out how we should operate them.

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

starts with these pretty to the point words and ends with them in chapter 14

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues

These words in the next verses lay out what the manifestations are and given to EVERY MAN to profit with them all.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Paul made sure we understood that we can operate them freely which is why he said not to forbid it.

1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

How anyone can distort these truths are beyond comprehension and may God forgive those who say its not for you. because a command is a command and we can't use ignorance as an excuse when we see the truth,unless you just wanna be ignorant.

1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

As for me I wish every believer spoke in tongues and edified themselves for then as a body we grow stronger in him.

LaSpino3 · Nov 12, 2011

Truth warrior, you wrote, "Notice the men and angels tongues ? How many men do you know that speak a language of angels? My tongue can be a language of men or angels.

Phil replies, "You asked an honest question, and I will give you the Biblical answer. This is not a personal attack on anyone, all I am doing is answering your question in a sound, biblical manner.

The language of angels to men, and to God go something like this.

Dan.8:15-16, "I Daniel, had a vision, --- I heard a man's voice -- which called and said, Gabriel make this man to understand the vision. --- and he (Gabriel) said, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision --- etc." Sounds like an earthy language to me spoken by an angel.

Dan.9:21, "Gabriel whom I (Daniel) had seen in the vision, --- informed me, and talked with me, and said, Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications and commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter and consider the vision ---." Again, it sounds like human speech to me.

Matt.1:20, "The angel of the Lord appeared unto him (Joseph) --- saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife --- etc."

Luke 29-10-11, "The angel of the Lord came upon them (shepherds) -- and said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord."

From God, to His angel, to us, in a language we can all understand, this is the tongues of angels.

Luke 2:13, "Suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Nice prayer for all men to learn, don't you think?

Luke 1:11-13, "There appeared unto him (Zechariah) an angel of the Lord, --- the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zechariah; for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elizabeth shall bear the a son, and thou shalt call his name John (the Baptist.)"

Right from the mouth of God, to his angel, to Zechariah, spoken in the tongue (language) of Zechariah.

Luke 1:28, "The angel came in unto her (Mary,) and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

Beautiful, clear, and understandable; a message from God to us, and understood in every known language on earth, this is the tongues of angels.

Rev.4:8, "The four beasts (in heaven) having six wings -- rest not day and night, saying Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

Here is the prayer of angels to God, spoken, and reported to us in a known language.

Well Mr. Truth Warrior, above is explained to you what the tongues (language of angels) is. Words that come directly from God to men, clear, prophetic, concise messages, understandable to all men, and in every known earthly language; and Rev.4:8, tells us that the angels of heaven worship God continually in languages spoken by men.

Angels speak, and communicate to men in known languages. They speak as we do, they worship God in the languages of men, they communicate to us, and to God in known languages created by God. Maybe the difference is, men have a tendency to lie, where the angels of God do not.

Conclusion, (Languages not of this earth,) as you and many others claim is a figment of your imaginations, a false teaching, and made up to satisfy the egos, and pride of those who teach and practice it. There is not one shred of Biblical evidence to prove otherwise.

Many of you have accused me of not understanding. But I do understand. Maybe its you who have been drawn into something that is not Scriptural.

Phil LaSpino

Truth_Warrior · Nov 12, 2011

LaSpino3 said:
Many of you have accused me of not understanding. But I do understand. Maybe its you who have been drawn into something that is not Scriptural.

Phil LaSpino

If you wish to discount 3 chapters of scripture its your privelage to do so.

The whole of the sum and substance brought to light in those chapters reveals truth you wish to discount and then use verses where angels spoke like it was the only language they know.

Why would God say in his Word tongues of men and of Angels if they were both the same?

Common sense and logic goes out the window when people prop up what they were taught for surely they can't be wrong.

I have spent many many hours and read every arguement you propose and I see them as vain babble when you stand it up against truth.

I guess its just hard to rise above what you were taught.

I am with Gods Word on this and Paul who was inspired by God.

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

I thank my God I speak in tongues

You said If I remember correctly that it was the hearers of the tongue that heard thier own language and the Apostles were not speaking in that language(correct me if I am wrong)

Thats a false statement Sir.

Acts 2:3 and 4
(3) They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.
(4) All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Another account reveals tongues..........

Acts 10:44-46
(44) While Peter was still speaking these words, The Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
(45) The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
(46) For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God

Yet another..........

Acts 19:6
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Vain babbling

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