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Vaccine / religious belief correlation

Rygaku

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Yes

reason: It keeps things like older diseases and sicknesses such as polio and other nasty stuff cases down tremendously. It really does help and has a great affect on the quality of life. Even if people who hate vaccines saying undocumented things like vaccines cause ADHD or ADD they really do not know the true causes of why those things happen. More or less its a environment thing during birth and it really does depend on what you put into your body foods wise. Processed foods during pregnancy unhealthy foods gluten's etc there is a higher chance of a child having those problems.
 
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Saricharity

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It was worth my time to watch it. Wakefield has been made to be a villian from what I have read on most pro vax websites. It was nice to see a timeline of events.
It doesn't surprise me that you disagree.
I merely wanted to post it as a point of interest for anyone who might like to see concerns of why people don't vax. While I've been researching it, I have lost a lot of respect for some pro vax people. It's been made into a very ugly fight. I will continue to follow the topic as it interests me and it's better to be informed than surprised. I rather like the webpage Vaccine choice Canada. It gives me information on the laws in Canada regarding vaccines. I have often been lost in the CDC recommendations in the US as compared to Canada.
I can try to give a synopsis later if I think of it. We watched it in class and I had forgotten about it. I found it in on my USB when I've been trying to get my computer back to normal after the crash. I just remember it being very interesting and he used lots of studies to back up his findings.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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It was worth my time to watch it.

Wakefield has been made to be a villian from what I have read on most pro vax websites. It was nice to see a timeline of events.

If it the video was beneficial to you, that's nice. I look forward to your synopsis!

Pro-vaccination websites constitute half a thimble's worth of the universal condemnation for Andrew Wakefield. The medical establishment has firmly and resoundingly censured him for his grotesquely unethical, fraudulent, and abusive actions that are documented and legally proven. Courts of law have not found in his favor. It's not about emotions, but an examination of the facts of his actions. The Lancet retracted his paper years before Facebook and its pro and anti vaccine pages existed. The medical community didn't just watch a few videos or pop onto some websites before castigating him; they actually thoroughly examined what he did first, in addition to the destructive ramifications of his actions. In January 2010, a tribunal of the GMC found three dozen charges against Wakefield proved, including four counts of dishonesty and 12 counts involving the abuse of developmentally challenged children. He subjected young children, including ones with autism, to unnecessary, painful, and invasive medical procedures, such as lumbar punctures and colonoscopies, without having obtained the proper permission from an ethical review board. His advocation of unfounded medical treatments such as bleach enemas for autistic children has led to distress and harm for them and their parents. Many parents of autistic children, including ones who were direct patients of his, have been vocal in their repudiation of him because of the harm caused to their kids.

He has become one of the most reviled doctors of his generation, blamed directly and indirectly, for irresponsibly starting a panic with tragic repercussions: vaccination rates so low that childhood diseases once all but eradicated, such as pertussis and measles, among them — have re-emerged, endangering young lives. I've had pertussis because of the endemic here and in tandem with my compromised immune system. 101 days of agony that made shingles feel like a few splinters in comparison. I've never shared my experiences on pro-vaccination groups, and rarely anywhere. His study consisted of only 12 children, but placed a thousand times that in the path of harm. In comparison most vaccine studies have thousands of participants. His paper has been unequivocally refuted by physicians around the world. His hospital dismissed him and he was stripped of his medical license. He's lost multiple lawsuits. Pro-vaccination sites have, if anything, a trivial amount of influence on the medical and legal community's rebuke of him.

His belief that the MMR vaccine caused autism is that the three vaccines, given together, can alter a child’s immune system. What he failed to disclose was that he had filed for a patent on a single-dose vaccine, so he had an extraordinary financial incentive to make parents selective about vaccinations.

It doesn't surprise me that you disagree.

As I explained in my post, I only watched the first five minutes of that video and disagreed with that portion. Disagreement was actually the improper word because it was a matter of facts rather than opinions. I provided credible references to explain the reasoning. I don't have much time this week so I won't provide detailed explanations for each point when you provide a synopsis. I was just trying to help you out on the first problem I identified. Tis all.

I merely wanted to post it as a point of interest for anyone who might like to see concerns of why people don't vax. While I've been researching it, I have lost a lot of respect for some pro vax people. It's been made into a very ugly fight.

This is what confuzzles me about your research methodologies. It's not about respecting people for their behavior, but respecting evidence conducted and reviewed by a multitude of people with established credentials and a reputation that is respected by their peers. With the abundance of reputable sites with clear and substantial evidence I don't understand utilizing sites where drama can even take place, such as Facebook, for research. Someone here told me about the Facebook site Refutations to Anti-Vaccine Memes, and I pop on there every once and a while, but never for the purpose of research or for solidifying or in any other way influencing my views on vaccines. Most "pro-vaccination" sites lack ads and are unsentimental, like the CDC, the Canadian Pediatric Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and such. We've been discussing this on my college's private forum and it's been respectful and undramatic even in mild disagreement. I don't know what sites you're frequenting.

Direct, undramatic, simmmmmmmple:
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/handouts/vaccine_safety

Most pro-vaccination people are part of the "silent majority" who rarely engage in controversy or bickering about vaccines unless personally affected. Busloads of anti-vaccination people have trekked to Sacramento to wave signs about SB 277 being a "Holocaust" while pro-vaccination people continued on with their days because they were confident the decision would be made based on facts rather than emotions. And they were totally right. It's easily won the votes with minimal effort from those who are pro-vaccination.

I will continue to follow the topic as it interests me and it's better to be informed than surprised.

You didn't use to have any interest in this, and I regret asking you off-the-cuff about vaccines back in January during the measles outbreak here in LA, but was curious about whether you needed them for college. Prior to then you seemed content with your mom not believing in them. We're 17 and don't have children. I honestly had thought you'd spend a few minutes looking at your college's requirements for vaccines, and then would bring it up when you saw your doctor, and that would be that, ha. If you're wanting to be informed, I don't understand not just taking a class about it that focuses on the science of vaccines rather than emotions, or reading that book from the Canadian Pediatric Society you bought. I know you weren't interested in the one offered by the University of Pennsylvania for free on Coursera. Here's another free online course: http://www.vaccineeducationonline.org

I rather like the webpage Vaccine choice Canada. It gives me information on the laws in Canada regarding vaccines.

Straight-forward, user-friendly information is available directly from the Canadian Pediatric Society, the Canadian Immunization Guide, and other reputable sites. What else about the laws for vaccines are you wanting information on? Most of your siblings are homeschooled and therefore exempt from the Ontario requirement to provide proof of immunization for enrollment at schools. It's not illegal to not vaccinate your children in Canada, but the Public Health Minister was ardently encouraged citizens to take advantage of the free immunizations readily available there.

I have often been lost in the CDC recommendations in the US as compared to Canada.

You can find PDFs of them laid out very neatly and simply. Are you looking at the recommendations for babies or for people our age? Here's some info for our age.

CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/who/teens/for-preteens-teens.html
http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/college/

Canada:
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/immunization/static/immunization_tool.html#14-16

I did just find this about a mom whose teenager daughter died at college from meningitis while doing the Google search for vaccine recommendations for college students in Canada. The vaccine she's referencing is now available in the US but it wasn't when her daughter died.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...ing-mom-heads-canada-lifesaving-shots-n106646


Say what. You watched that video in a class? What class, and why? Did your mom have you watch it for one of your classes she teaches you, or was it a teacher from school? It would have been really helpful if he had actually posted the links to those studies, or at least listed them below the video. Most people aren't going to watch a video that long from a random small-town physician. It was just uploaded at the end of the April, so it's not like you've got to reach back into your memory from years ago, haha. Anyway........ hope you're having a good one today. OH! And I'm glad you got your laptop back and it's up and running. Whewwwwww.
 
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outsidethecamp

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HPV Vaccine Injuries and Deaths Now Being Reported from Central and South America

Dr. Andrew Moulden: Every Vaccine Produces Harm


Canadian physician Dr. Andrew Moulden provided clear scientific evidence to prove that every dose of vaccine given to a child or an adult produces harm. The truth that he uncovered was rejected by the conventional medical system and the pharmaceutical industry. Nevertheless, his warning and his message to America remains as a solid legacy of the man who stood up against big pharma and their program to vaccinate every person on the Earth.

Dr. Moulden died unexpectedly in November of 2013 at age 49.

Because of the strong opposition from big pharma concerning Dr. Moulden’s research, we became concerned that the name of this brilliant researcher and his life’s work had nearly been deleted from the internet. His reputation was being disparaged, and his message of warning and hope was being distorted and buried without a tombstone.
 
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Saricharity

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I envision you sitting in the car writing this.
I'm having a fabulous day! Helps when you have the weight of the world lifted off your shoulders.
Thanks for all that information. Most of it, I did know already.
Researching this topic has been very interesting in many ways which is why I do follow the debate. I figure by the time I do need to decide about my own kids, I should be very knowledgable.
Hope you are having a lovely day too.
((Hugs))
 
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BensonInABox

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They conveniently forgot to mention that he was a conspiracy theorist, 9/11 truther and germ theory denialist.

Also, he only claimed to have an MD and was never licensed to practice medicine. Anywhere.

ETA: Did a bit more research. Apparently, his idea was all disease is caused by white blood cells clumping together. So I can now conclusively write him off as knowing absolute squat about medical science.
 
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outsidethecamp

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You are entitled to your opinion. Your marginalizing of him because he does not hold beliefs that you hold only tells me you don't want to see any evidence because you have already made up your mind, so you choose to marginalize the man instead. That's ok. The links are not meant for people like you and at least the links are now recorded for others to read and maybe give this subject a more fair-minded treatment. You don't like the argument/evidence so you defame the messenger.

By the way, a conspiracy is a secret meeting or conspiring of two or more individuals to hide something usually evil but individuals can of course conspire together to do something good, such as hold a surprise birthday party for someone. So, we know conspiring to do something evil or good happens all the time and conspiracy theories are just that, theories until proven fact and many have been proven fact. Of course it might take 40 years until something is declassified, but eventually, if it was a true conspiracy, the truth often comes out. Nothing wrong with theorizing there may have been a conspiracy or are we just supposed to accept everything the boobs on the boob tube tell us. What do you think about the Gardasil vaccines? I think I can guess.
 
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BensonInABox

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I'm marginalizing him because he was obviously flat wrong. His description of the mechanism by which vaccines supposedly caused injury is literally insane to anyone with the slightest inkling of human physiology and it was quite obviously a money making scheme.

This was lifted from his website:


"BrainGuard provides digital video and photograph based "video microscopy" to monitor and assess for clinically silent brain damage that causes, or has caused, neurological and neuropsychiatric disorders including autism, autism-spectrum, pervasive developmental disorders, Asperger's syndrome, sudden infant death, infantile paralysis, Post vaccine syndromes (Gulf War syndrome, Guillain Barre syndrome, cognitive impairment...), seizure disorders, ischemic strokes, specific learning disabilities, and attention deficit disorders.
AMassNetwork IMAN-12 Membership available at (www.AMassNetwork.com). You must have an AMassNetwork membership subscription in order Access/receive BrainGuard services and solutions.
Brain damage, especially vaccine and infectious disease induced brain damage, is clinically silent. Our proprietary techniques and technologies provide the means and methods to assess and monitor the integrity of the central nervous system from birth to adulthood with a non-invasive, cost-efficient, home based, video/photo solution for monitoring the integrity of the human brain across neurodevelopment.
There are three steps:
Capture a 30 second video clip of the BrainGuard client - full face in view, eyes open, awake, alert, and responding/attending to the videographer.
Login or Register with BrainGuardMD.com
Follow instructions on how to upload your video/pictures to our secure servers.
What Comes Next:
We will process your submissions and inform, via email to your "IMAM-12" account the results of your BrainGuard scan(s). If we detect the MASS response (a medical emergency) one of our staff will contact you directly with what to do next.
If you are looking for proof causation of vaccine induced brain damage (including autism, Gulf War syndrome, Wrongful death, brain impairment...) - BrainGuard can provide these services and all inquiries."

So he claims he can diagnose brain disorders via photographs and video without so much as a basic collection of vitals, any medical history whatsoever, or even the most basic of basic interviews or clinical exams... and this is the type of guy you want to use as an expert?

Then he would shill his snake oil, which quite obviously screams "SCAM". He was selling his "Brainguard" formula for the low price of $47.00 for a one month supply.

And there isn't any evidence. He never published a single peer-reviewed study on his methodology or presented any evidence whatsoever.

As for your definition of conspiracy theorist, I guess it's OK for me to speculate that you are a paid anti-vaccine informant, neo-nazi skinhead or an alien from planet whatever. Since I can't immediately be proven wrong, we should accept my little hypothesis at face value rather than dismissing it out of hand. See how ridiculous that sounds?

What do you think about the Gardasil vaccines? I think I can guess.

And you'd probably be correct. I'm all for it. HPV is a public health hazard that leads to substantially increased cancer risk. What's your position on cancer? I think I can guess.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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How is it a matter of opinion whether Andrew Moulden was ever licensed to practice medicine? Stating "you are entitled to your opinion," about factual matters feels like an attempt marginalize integrity.

Matthew 7:15-16
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

I think it's not only sensible but Biblically mandated to be cautious of those who could be false medical prophets preying upon and exploiting those who are vulnerable. Considering the number of children, especially those in developing countries, who die of vaccine-preventable deaths, we who have access to credible, evidence-substantiated information have a fiduciary duty to examine the credentials and reputation of those making the extraordinary claim that every vaccine causes harm. That claim demands extraordinary evidence beyond just a link to a book on Amazon and to Health Impact News, which is operated by people who lack any medical licenses and seem to focus on selling virgin coconut oil.

It is a matter of principled responsibility to examine the "fruits" of Andrew Moulden, and his reputation. If you are fair-minded and receptive to evidence then your response is baffling to me. It seems like rather than condescending and making ad hominem accusations to those who question your posts, you should welcome the opportunity to provide more evidence of Moulden's "fruits" that corroborates your stance that he was an upstanding "messenger" about the claimed detriments of vaccines.

This is from your own source:

He makes no reference of ever actually receiving a medical license, despite being in his 40s at that point. If he actually obtained his PhD he could honestly call himself a doctor, but it would be unethical and absolutely illegal to present himself as a licensed medical doctor. I did a fast search and found this from the one official medical licensing body of Ontario where he resided:
http://www.cpso.on.ca/docsearch/details.aspx?view=3&id= 75384

He spent an unusual amount of time relatively late in his life as a postgraduate student in psychiatry, and obtained no medical license. Since these records are publicly and easily available, then if he was in fact licensed somewhere else that should be simple to find and produce. Do you have any evidence that he held a valid medical license or any degree that would equip him with professional expertise in vaccines?

In addition to the information he wrote about the Public Health Department's demand that he sign a contract stating that he was mentally ill and therefore his research and teachings on vaccine safety were delusional, his sister stated that he had bipolar disease and committed suicide.

This is what his sister, Meranie Plews, wrote on Andrew Moulden's public Facebook page as a comment to an announcement about his passing:
My brother was Bipolar and it was consuming his life. Drew committed suicide on Monday, November 4, 2013. He is at peace now.

Second comment down. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=619339934789403
I don't think she's part of any conspiracy to defame him. From the comment she appears to love him.
 
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outsidethecamp

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How is it a matter of opinion whether Andrew Moulden was ever licensed to practice medicine? Stating "you are entitled to your opinion," about factual matters feels like an attempt marginalize integrity.

It is a matter of opinion about what he thinks of the man.
 
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florida2

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It is a matter of opinion about what he thinks of the man.

He unqualified to practice medicine, his ideas about vaccination and illness show ignorance or deliberate misinformation about physiology and is trying to sell a product supposedly detect all manner of brain injuries/disorders and a subscription website.

Why would you defend him?
 
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outsidethecamp

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Well, I am not really defending him. I did not make this about him. It is about the information he discovered.

Many people who don't have degrees or certificates can still have expert knowledge in a subject. But, it looks like the subject has been lost to a personality, now and I suppose that is the whole point in "killing the messenger".

If you look at the IDSA panel of "experts" on Lyme Disease, they are constantly putting out misinformation on Lyme because many are being paid by Pharmaceuticals or influenced by the CDC.

And they are all "qualified" doctors.
 
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BensonInABox

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The information he "discovered" (pulled out of thin air) makes no sense at all, and anyone with even the teensiest modicum of knowledge in medicine would realize it instantly. He was no expert. He was a charlatan.

Not to toot my own horn, but my field does require me to maintain a decent understanding of human physiology.
 
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outsidethecamp

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What do you think about the Gardasil vaccine?
 
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florida2

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I'd rather trust medical researchers than an unqualified guy trying to make money. The messenger in the case of something like medicine is important.

His information is also bogus. As BensonInABox has already described.

If you look at the IDSA panel of "experts" on Lyme Disease, they are constantly putting out misinformation on Lyme because many are being paid by Pharmaceuticals or influenced by the CDC.

And they are all "qualified" doctors.

According to whom?
 
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BensonInABox

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outsidethecamp

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Ada Lovelace

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