Using your intellect, mind for God

Daniel Marsh · Dec 10, 2019

8 Ways that Anti-Intellectualism is Harming the Church

Anti-intellectual Christians is the best reason for normal people not want to go to a church.

martymonster · Dec 10, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
Those who believes we should put our intellect on a shelf at the door of the church are not allowed to quote the Bible in English. Bible translations are from people's intellect, mind.

Mark 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

Not to mention this one.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Ahermit · Dec 11, 2019

@Daniel Marsh , the mind bridges between body and soul. We are of two minds, body-mind, and soul-mind. The body-mind uses conditionality to gain knowledge of what is conditional (logic/reason).
The soil-mind uses unconditionality for 'knowing' what is unconditional (faith, truth, and love).

Jesus is YHWH · Dec 11, 2019

knowledge is meaningless without wisdom (knowledge applied). just ask solomon

hope this helps !!!

topher694 · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
8 Ways that Anti-Intellectualism is Harming the Church

Anti-intellectual Christians is the best reason for normal people not want to go to a church.

So I read the article. I'm actually a big fan of Cross Examined, but I sort of disagree with it. All their points are valid enough, but I don't think the problem is anti-intellectualism. I could make exact same case and give examples for all 8 points of intellectualism creating the very same issues. I have seen the more people study God and learn about the Bible the more they put Him into a smaller and smaller box while exalting there intellect more and more (pride). It actually happens here quite often.

Plus, I disagree with the implication (found several places) that because someone doesn't have certain knowledge about the Bible that they are anti-intellectual... being uninformed is not the same thing as being "anti".

The problem (as always) is people. Not "anti-intellectualism" or "intellectualism". People create issues for the same reasons they always have: pride, fear, anger, greed, selfishness, you name it. Those things are not relegated to a certain group of people, and those things will cause all 8 issues outlined in the article no matter what "group" someone might fit into.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

martymonster said:
Not to mention this one.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Amen, cool kid

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
In your quotes, you failed to distinguish between the different kinds of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, etc.,

Since, you are an anti-intellectual you are not allowed to quote the Bible in English because it was translated by intellectuals, who used knowledge of the world to do so.

Well I am not an anti intellectual, despite your false accusation. I am against reason that contradicts scripture. Translating the Scriptures from one language to another is not unbiblical !

This is the reason I am against:

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Intellectualism that goes against Scripture is wrong!

People who accuse one is anti intellectual because they are unwilling to compromise Gods Word are just as wrong!

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

topher694 said:
So I read the article. I'm actually a big fan of Cross Examined, but I sort of disagree with it. All their points are valid enough, but I don't think the problem is anti-intellectualism. I could make exact same case and give examples for all 8 points of intellectualism creating the very same issues. I have seen the more people study God and learn about the Bible the more they put Him into a smaller and smaller box while exalting there intellect more and more (pride). It actually happens here quite often.

Plus, I disagree with the implication (found several places) that because someone doesn't have certain knowledge about the Bible that they are anti-intellectual... being uninformed is not the same thing as being "anti".

The problem (as always) is people. Not "anti-intellectualism" or "intellectualism". People create issues for the same reasons they always have: pride, fear, anger, greed, selfishness, you name it. Those things are not relegated to a certain group of people, and those things will cause all 8 issues outlined in the article no matter what "group" someone might fit into.

I never put God in a box, I don't think there is even a large enough one.

Also, when I use my mind, I start with fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5 and the virtues in II Peter 1 to season my thinking.

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
2 Timothy 4:13When I was in Troas, I left my coat there with Carpus. So when you come, bring it to me. Also, bring my books. The books written on parchment are the ones I need.

If Paul was not an intellectual, we would not have his letters.

If you had not very biasely edited my words, you would not write stuff that is so foolish!

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
Also, when I use my mind, I start with fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5 and the virtues in II Peter 1 to season my thinking.

Well that is wonderful, but when your thought patterns vary fro the Word of God--what then????

Is the Bible your absolute standard to filter all thoughts or is it something else?

topher694 · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
I never put God in a box, I don't think there is even a large enough one.

Also, when I use my mind, I start with fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5 and the virtues in II Peter 1 to season my thinking.

I know, I wasn't directing that you. That's a wise approach. But, I've seen it, many times and many different ways.

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
In your quotes, you failed to distinguish between the different kinds of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, etc.,

Since, you are an anti-intellectual you are not allowed to quote the Bible in English because it was translated by intellectuals, who used knowledge of the world to do so.

I find it very sad that you rate as funny that men should guard their thoughts by the word of God.

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
2 Timothy 4:13When I was in Troas, I left my coat there with Carpus. So when you come, bring it to me. Also, bring my books. The books written on parchment are the ones I need.

If Paul was not an intellectual, we would not have his letters.

Paul was very intellectual, but His writings and the Parchments (which probably were books of the OT) were the product o divine inspiration and not men rationalizing about what to do.

nolidad · Dec 11, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
In your quotes, you failed to distinguish between the different kinds of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, etc.,

Since, you are an anti-intellectual you are not allowed to quote the Bible in English because it was translated by intellectuals, who used knowledge of the world to do so.

Let me be clear in declaring this: God gave man an intellect and intended for HIm to use it! Not to defy or rebel against HIm, but to gain the knowledge of the universe he created in six days!

Inventions and discoveries are wonderful things- but if those discoveries and conclusions are used wrongly to go against Gods reveale3d will- that is not intellectualism but anti intellectualism.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

nolidad said:
If you had not very biasely edited my words, you would not write stuff that is so foolish!

I apologize friend. I must have thought the texts you were quoting was to support anti-intellectualism which is a problem I have problems with too often. When I dabble in Christian Science, I found that they too are very anti-intellectual. I see anti-intellectualism as just plan lazy on their parts. I am often very tired when I post.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

nolidad said:
Paul was very intellectual, but His writings and the Parchments (which probably were books of the OT) were the product o divine inspiration and not men rationalizing about what to do.

I agree that likely most of those books were Hebrew Scriptures. But, it would be an argument from silence to say they were only such. We do not know because we were not there. I already made the point that Paul was well educated.

In fact, we both would agree that Moses was well educated too.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

nolidad said:
Let me be clear in declaring this: God gave man an intellect and intended for HIm to use it! Not to defy or rebel against HIm, but to gain the knowledge of the universe he created in six days!

Inventions and discoveries are wonderful things- but if those discoveries and conclusions are used wrongly to go against Gods reveale3d will- that is not intellectualism but anti intellectualism.

Huh??? friend, I think your definitions are somehow off the mark.

I laughed at the texts you quoted because I have heard the same texts quoted by anti-intellectuals.

Proverbs 15:14 The mind of one who has understanding seeks knowledge,

Proverbs 18:15 An intelligent mind acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

Proverbs 18:15An intelligent mind acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

Ecclesiastes 1:16I said to myself, ‘I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.’

Sirach 16:24[ God’s Wisdom Seen in Creation ] Listen to me, my child, and acquire knowledge, and pay close attention to my words.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

Sirach 1 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
The Prologue
Many great teachings have been given to us through the Law and the Prophets and the others[a] that followed them, and for these we should praise Israel for instruction and wisdom. Now, those who read the scriptures must not only themselves understand them, but must also as lovers of learning be able through the spoken and written word to help the outsiders. So my grandfather Jesus, who had devoted himself especially to the reading of the Law and the Prophets and the other books of our ancestors, and had acquired considerable proficiency in them, was himself also led to write something pertaining to instruction and wisdom, so that by becoming familiar also with his book those who love learning might make even greater progress in living according to the law.

You are invited therefore to read it with goodwill and attention, and to be indulgent in cases where, despite our diligent labour in translating, we may seem to have rendered some phrases imperfectly. For what was originally expressed in Hebrew does not have exactly the same sense when translated into another language. Not only this book, but even the Law itself, the Prophecies, and the rest of the books differ not a little when read in the original.

When I came to Egypt in the thirty-eighth year of the reign of Euergetes and stayed for some time, I found opportunity for no little instruction.[c] It seemed highly necessary that I should myself devote some diligence and labour to the translation of this book. During that time I have applied my skill day and night to complete and publish the book for those living abroad who wished to gain learning and are disposed to live according to the law.

In Praise of Wisdom
1 All wisdom is from the Lord,
and with him it remains for ever.
2 The sand of the sea, the drops of rain,
and the days of eternity—who can count them?
3 The height of heaven, the breadth of the earth,
the abyss, and wisdom[d]—who can search them out?
4 Wisdom was created before all other things,
and prudent understanding from eternity.[e]
6 The root of wisdom—to whom has it been revealed?
Her subtleties—who knows them?[f]
8 There is but one who is wise, greatly to be feared,
seated upon his throne—the Lord.
9 It is he who created her;
he saw her and took her measure;
he poured her out upon all his works,
10 upon all the living according to his gift;
he lavished her upon those who love him.[g]

Fear of the Lord Is True Wisdom
11 The fear of the Lord is glory and exultation,
and gladness and a crown of rejoicing.
12 The fear of the Lord delights the heart,
and gives gladness and joy and long life.[h]
13 Those who fear the Lord will have a happy end;
on the day of their death they will be blessed.

14 To fear the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
she is created with the faithful in the womb.
15 She made among human beings an eternal foundation,
and among their descendants she will abide faithfully.
16 To fear the Lord is fullness of wisdom;
she inebriates mortals with her fruits;
17 she fills their[j] whole house with desirable goods,
and their[k] storehouses with her produce.
18 The fear of the Lord is the crown of wisdom,
making peace and perfect health to flourish.[l]
19 She rained down knowledge and discerning comprehension,
and she heightened the glory of those who held her fast.
20 To fear the Lord is the root of wisdom,
and her branches are long life.[m]

22 Unjust anger cannot be justified,
for anger tips the scale to one’s ruin.
23 Those who are patient stay calm until the right moment,
and then cheerfulness comes back to them.
24 They hold back their words until the right moment;
then the lips of many tell of their good sense.

25 In the treasuries of wisdom are wise sayings,
but godliness is an abomination to a sinner.
26 If you desire wisdom, keep the commandments,
and the Lord will lavish her upon you.
27 For the fear of the Lord is wisdom and discipline,
fidelity and humility are his delight.

28 Do not disobey the fear of the Lord;
do not approach him with a divided mind.
29 Do not be a hypocrite before others,
and keep watch over your lips.
30 Do not exalt yourself, or you may fall
and bring dishonour upon yourself.
The Lord will reveal your secrets
and overthrow you before the whole congregation,
because you did not come in the fear of the Lord,
and your heart was full of deceit.

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

Proverbs 1 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:

Prologue
2 For learning about wisdom and instruction,
for understanding words of insight,
3 for gaining instruction in wise dealing,
righteousness, justice, and equity;
4 to teach shrewdness to the simple,
knowledge and prudence to the young—
5 let the wise also hear and gain in learning,
and the discerning acquire skill,
6 to understand a proverb and a figure,
the words of the wise and their riddles.

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Warnings against Evil Companions
8 Hear, my child, your father’s instruction,
and do not reject your mother’s teaching;
9 for they are a fair garland for your head,
and pendants for your neck.
10 My child, if sinners entice you,
do not consent.
11 If they say, ‘Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood;
let us wantonly ambush the innocent;
12 like Sheol let us swallow them alive
and whole, like those who go down to the Pit.
13 We shall find all kinds of costly things;
we shall fill our houses with booty.
14 Throw in your lot among us;
we will all have one purse’—
15 my child, do not walk in their way,
keep your foot from their paths;
16 for their feet run to evil,
and they hurry to shed blood.
17 For in vain is the net baited
while the bird is looking on;
18 yet they lie in wait—to kill themselves!
and set an ambush—for their own lives!
19 Such is the end[a] of all who are greedy for gain;
it takes away the life of its possessors.

The Call of Wisdom
20 Wisdom cries out in the street;
in the squares she raises her voice.
21 At the busiest corner she cries out;
at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:
22 ‘How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple?
How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing
and fools hate knowledge?
23 Give heed to my reproof;
I will pour out my thoughts to you;
I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused,
have stretched out my hand and no one heeded,
25 and because you have ignored all my counsel
and would have none of my reproof,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when panic strikes you,
27 when panic strikes you like a storm,
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
they will seek me diligently, but will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 would have none of my counsel,
and despised all my reproof,
31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way
and be sated with their own devices.
32 For waywardness kills the simple,
and the complacency of fools destroys them;
33 but those who listen to me will be secure
and will live at ease, without dread of disaster.’

Daniel Marsh · Dec 11, 2019

Wisdom 9:15for a perishable body weighs down the soul, and this earthy tent burdens the thoughtful mind.

Matthew 22:37He said to him, ‘“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

Jesus separates the soul, heart and mind as three parts.

Using your intellect, mind for God

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